My beef with doom3

[dsm]

myk said:

Yeah, I like imagining things too, but that's nore useful as the basis for the general (and not even the particular) design of a game or add-on, but playing is not like that. Are you going to sit there and "use your imagination" while an imp scrapes your ass off? Not me. I prefer single player when it's a challenge, as much a sport as deathmatch.

You still don't get it. I could go on and on discussing it with you, conjuring up shitloads of arguments, but you just seem to refuse to get it. Nevertheless, I'll continue this hopeless crusade to explain to you people what makes sp games great.

OF COURSE you don't focus entirely on using your imagination - you also play the game. The imagination thing is just a part of it.

And I don't get people who whine about games being too easy these days - if they really are so fucking easy why don't they just build some maps that are HARD enough?
I mean the enemies in Doom 2 are all snot easy, yet there are wads out there that are hard as nails to beat.

And another thing you could do if you think the sp is too easy is to try and limit your use of weapons to the weakest weapons. THAT is challenging.

[myk]

Hmm, you sure do draw conclusions about what people post. Where did I say anything about games being too easy? I was contrasting my view of single player games with yours. You seek, mainly, immersement, while I seek, principally, a challenge. Is this not so?

I'll clarify to show where I see the difference is (you posted your ideas twice already so I sort of percieve your view): To me a good single player game is one that can be played over and over, even the same maps, and that has a well-balanced set of weapons, movement possibilities, and monsters, and is kept as simple as possible for greater excitement possibilities. You should be able to see how my vision of single player games somewhat resembles deathmatch games too. Good FPS games have a backing theme that sets the mood (story, appearance, music) and that is something that puts it together. It does hold the player's attention to a degree, but isn't the aim of playing. The aim would be to see how well I'm playing in respect to myself in other occasions or to others.

[dsm]

myk said:
Hmm, you sure do draw conclusions about what people post. Where did I say anything about games being too easy? I was contrasting my view of single player games with yours. You seek, mainly, immersement, while I seek, principally, a challenge. Is this not so?

Ok, you're right, I WAS too quick there, sorry.

I'll clarify to show where I see the difference is (you posted your ideas twice already so I sort of percieve your view): To me a good single player game is one that can be played over and over, even the same maps, and that has a well-balanced set of weapons, movement possibilities, and monsters, and is kept as simple as possible for greater excitement possibilities. You should be able to see how my vision of single player games somewhat resembles deathmatch games too. Good FPS games have a backing theme that sets the mood (story, appearance, music) and that is something that puts it together. It does hold the player's attention to a degree, but isn't the aim of playing. The aim would be to see how well I'm playing in respect to myself in other occasions or to others.

Ok fair enough - it then seems that we're closer to agreement here. I was just under the impression that you were one of those people who think sp games suck, which is an attitude I despise. Ok, I do like a challenge myself, but I hate when games become frustratingly challenging, like with games where enemies are near impossible to hit because they just dodge EVERYTHING you throw at them (the Skaarj in Unreal). As such, I usually dislike mp games, because it's so damn hard to kill stuff, unless you're against newbies (which isn't fair) - I want to see the corpses of my enemies to flow before me. That's just me though.

I prefer that the game itself is easy enough for me to experiment with things - if I'm in the mood to be challenged I just fire up a wad which is difficult. As such, I prefer a game with fairly easy enemies (though not THAT easy) to give me that badass one-man-army feel that I happen to love about id's games.
An example of a game where I don't understand people's complaints regarding difficulty is RtCW - that game is easily the hardest game id has ever released. I mean, the enemies tend to react really fast and are good shots, meaning that it's hard to avoid taking damaging hits - I know that there's a shitload of medkits around, but I judge the game's difficulty by how easy it is to get hurt, not by how easily you end up dead. I regard RtCW challenging because I always try my damnedst to complete a map without taking a single hit, which is DAMN hard in the last couple of levels in RtCW.

As for good sp games, I think that we agree on a lot of things here. So I guess the discussion between you and me on sp contra mp ends here.

[Captain Red]

dsm said:
An example of a game where I don't understand people's complaints regarding difficulty is RtCW - that game is easily the hardest game id has ever released. I mean, the enemies tend to react really fast and are good shots, meaning that it's hard to avoid taking damaging hits - I know that there's a shitload of medkits around, but I judge the game's difficulty by how easy it is to get hurt, not by how easily you end up dead. I regard RtCW challenging because I always try my damnedst to complete a map without taking a single hit, which is DAMN hard in the last couple of levels in RtCW.

Heh. The first time I played RtCW I got My arse kicked by the elite guard (Nazi Chicks). And I mean really kicked. At the end of the segment, It stated that I had 124 attempts. Yet the second time through the game, on the hardest difficulty, I cut through them like a hot knife through butter, and did it in 4. go figer?

[Theif]

DAMN! why the hell did i post this trend!.

This is just the same old ass arguement thats been going on forever.
theres no winner in it, just opinions. I love playing SP and I love MP
only i wish there where more games like (u guys are going to rem me on this one) STV: Elite Force. where in single player u had choices. if u did decide to save a man it would change the plot of the game then if u didnt.( i want to see more games like that, Mult-scripts) I mean theres not really that many good MP games if u think about it. dsm ur right in the sence that single player games are very enjoyable if u got the ablity to place yourself as "gordon freeman" or as "duke nukem", but theres alot of people that see graphics and sound a interactivity that are the only key compounds to make a good game. (shit im one of them) and oh yeah, damn that RTCW- most people can only beat that game with cheats. WHY THE HELL DO THEY PUT CHEATS IN A GAME! it defeats the fucking purpose.

Oh and yeah, Alientank: you fucking fairy, no i dont post on Warcraft3, you queen. dont even get me started on RPGs...HEY, lets take a poll. BEST RPG OF ALL TIME. WarCraft or C&C red alert 2

[Kinsie]

Uhh, Warcraft and Red Alert aren't even RPG's you dumb twat. They're RTS games.

And, uh, anyways... I've forgotten what I was going to say. Thanks a heap, "Theif".

[Kinsie]

I personally have a soft spot for Red Alert 2, and Advance Wars on the GBA.

[Captain Red]

Heh. Red Alert is partly reasonable for my username.

/me plays "Hell March"

[LorD BaZTArD]

Trasher][ said:
I personally have a soft spot for Red Alert 2, and Advance Wars on the GBA.

Heh, advance wars is awesome. Very addictive :D

[Kinsie]

LorD BaZTArD said:

Heh, advance wars is awesome. Very addictive :D

Yes, it's inspired me to do a collection of little comics using it's art, actually. I'll do my best to distance them from this forum.

[Captain Red]

Theif said:
U nerdy mother fucks. "ITS AN RTS!!.ahhh." i don't give a shit.

Our word of the day kids, is "DENIAL".

[uniQ]

can someone kick theif in his ignorant arse?

[Ichor]

Looks like someone is going to be sent to the den of fools real soon...

[dsm]

Theif said:

Shit, dont blame me, I cant help it that your retarded. blame your mom for smoking crack, dirty crack hoe.

I recently figured out how to ban people (I hadn't been able to figure out before) and as such, I'm VERY eager to try out this particular option.
Watch it Theif! If you turn out just a little too provoking you'll end up tempting me more than necessary.

[myk]

Theif said:

Shit, dont blame me, I cant help it that your retarded.

heh

[Theif]

dsm said:

I recently figured out how to ban people (I hadn't been able to figure out before) and as such, I'm VERY eager to try out this particular option.
Watch it Theif! If you turn out just a little too provoking you'll end up tempting me more than necessary.

Yeah im fucking shaking

[dsm]

Theif said:

Yeah im fucking shaking

Oh you should be. And note: I don't give a shit if you can't learn to behave here, because banning you would give me a pleasure similar to the pleasure I get when I blow an imp away with a single barreled shotgun >:D

[Captain Red]

Theif said:
I think I'll try to insult you with random lame references to homosexuality to try and hide my stupidity

My wounded pride! Oh after a crushing blow like that, I can't expect to go on living!! Woe is me

dsm said:
I recently figured out how to ban people (I hadn't been able to figure out before) and as such, I'm VERY eager to try out this particular option.
Watch it Theif! If you turn out just a little too provoking you'll end up tempting me more than necessary.

To which Theif Replied :
Yeah im fucking shaking

Why don’t you just bugger off and leave us pathetic nerdy people to debate among ourselves eh? That'll show us!!!

[The_Aeromaster]

Theif, I don't think u realize... if u get banned, the fact that ur too ignorant to care doesn't change the fact that we don't haveta put up with you anymore... so whether ur hurt or not it will still accomplish something. Dumbass.
You won't get anymore attention from me though, if you want attention, go jerk off in the nearest public square, u'll have plenty of it then. U could've just posted a nice and easy "Look at me everybody!" it'd have caused alot less problems, but u still coulda got a bunch of replies stating how dumb you are, so I'm sure u'd still be happy. Try this at the next forum you go to disturb if dsm decides to ban you from this one.