Doom 1 or 2?

[ReaperAA]

11 minutes ago, seed said:

Doom 2.

 

Doom 1 is great at what it does, and has a better sense of place, but lacks the expanded bestiary of the sequel, and the combat is overall more fun in Doom 2 as well.

 

^This. While Episode 1 of Doom is a timeless classic and Doom 1 overall has better sense of progression, it lacks the combat variety introduced in Doom 2. Also the rest of the episodes of Doom 1 have not aged as well imho because they are too mazey. Doom 2's levels are overall better in terms of gameplay.

 

And if we include Final Doom(particularly plutonia) and mods/wads into the equation, Doom 2 wins hands down.

[seed]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

While Episode 1 of Doom is a timeless classic and Doom 1 overall has better sense of progression, it lacks the combat variety introduced in Doom 2. Also the rest of the episodes of Doom 1 have not aged as well imho because they are too mazey. Doom 2's levels are overall better in terms of gameplay.

 

Doom's levels from Episode 2 onward definitely get more complex, but there's only a few of them that really are more "mazey" in their nature, namely E2M5, E3M5 and E3M7. Apart from those, I'm having a hard time seeing any other maps as such, and even here, it's not difficult to find the way through at all (taking the flashing teleporter on E3M5 for instance).

 

Doom 2 changes its approach, and simplifies the puzzles and places more emphasis on set pieces and combat than its predecessor. Funny, although I prefer Doom 2 overall, I've surely revisited the original Doom quite a few times recently, especially since I've been surfing through various versions of it. I'm starting to enjoy it more and more for what it is, taking it nice and slow to appreciate the architecture and atmosphere of the levels, despite the limited bestiary. I think I'm also getting a bit tired of Doom 2 because I've played it to death, so I definitely need to take a break from it, especially some of the MIDIs that I've heard too fucking much at this point (I'm looking at you D_RUNNIN).

 

But speaking of atmosphere, Doom 2 has its fair share of atmospheric maps too (Inmost Dens, Underhalls, and Living End are some of the best examples I can think of).

[ReaperAA]

By mazes, I meant that they mazey and less combat focused than doom 2 levels. Not than they are really difficult to navigate or anything.

[banjiepixel]

I like Doom 2 more, the added monsters and ssg just complete the gameplay design so well and I do like that many maps have more vertical design. Not all maps of Doom 2 are perfect but my favorite of the official maps are in Doom 2 and game also isn't episodic like Doom 1 was.

[Zulk RS]

Doom 2 for purely subjective reasons.

And then Zulk goes on a nostalgia trip and spoilers the next section of this post only after realizing he wrote 3 paragraphs worth of stuff. Read on at your own risk.

Spoiler

 

It's the game I grew up with and played a ton as a kid. Though TNT was technically the first Doom game I ever played, I was like 4 or something and I couldn't remember anything about that game except for very vague memories. Doom 2 is what I call my "actual" first Doom game since I actually remember it better. I played Doom 2 as a kid and I was not able to get past MAP07: Dead Simple (and then MAP09: The Pit after I got a bit better). My copy of the game had some saved games already present in it for some reason. I don't know who left it there, maybe it was the previous owner but I don't know. The saved game put me in MAP14: Inmost Dens and I played the shit out of that. Then I got stuck in MAP15: Industrial Zone (and later MAP16: Suburbs). I remember being terrified of MAP06: The Crusher (and I was playing on ITYTD) for some reason and I found the Mancubi, Arachnotrons and PEs to be terrifying. I remembered raging at MAP09 because stupid kid me couldn't figure out how to progress past a certain point. The first time I triggered the blue key trap in MAP16, I thought the imps would spawn infinitely. When I played on NM for the first time and the enemies kept respawning, I didn't think they were infinitely respawning. Instead I thought that on this difficulty, MAP01: Entryway had like a 1000 monsters all teleporting in slowly. There would be shotgunners in the health bonus room, chaingunners in magically appeared windows in the green armor room, arachnotrons in the brown room with the elevator, chaingunners, revenants and mancubi the outdoor area and the map would magically grow in size because MAP01 had "Blocked Areas" which would be "unlocked" if I played on NM.

 

When I eventually played Doom 2 again years later as a teen, and beat the game, I was amazed by how I saw the maps as a clueless kid VS as a guy who actually knew what he was doing and what's happening. I was also pretty amazed by what the later levels that I was never able to reach looked like. I wasn't amazed because of graphics or level design. I was amazed because the levels kid me never saw was mythical and shrouded in mystery for him. "I wonder what the later levels look like? What does the final boss of Doom look like? What other monsters could be waiting for me? How many levels are there? 50? 100? Maybe 150?" were stuff kid me would often think. I imagined a lot of the later levels to be like barren wastelands, epic mountains, foreboding fortresses, deep underground caverns, ancient tombs. I imagined what other monsters might be in the game that I just can't see because I didn't get far enough into the game.  Kid me would often wonder what the final level of Doom 2 was like. I made up a lot of weird monsters. Some I still remember are flying sorcerers in cloaks; giant floating robotic heads (I also played Heretic so it's obvious where these two idea came from); orbs that fly around and shoot you with chainguns; "Hell Shotgunners" which were basically taller Hell Knights wearing the black uniform the shotgunner wears and holding a shotgun; SSG guys; Plasma gun zombies; RL zombies; Arachnotrons that shot BFG blasts. I imagined the final level of Doom 2 to be in this pitch black valley with dark blue skies where you would have to find items like lanterns or something to help you see in the darkness and fight your way to the boss room through "Shadow Monsters" which would be bulkier and harder hitting versions of the regular monsters. The boss monster would be some weird multi-armed monstrosity which had every monster's attack and the player's weapons. So when I finally played Doom as a sensible teen, it was kind of amazing seeing how different the later levels were from what I imagined them to be. The first time I saw the IoS was also amazing. Even as a teen, I thought that it was an actual giant monster. Then I messed up and landing in that ledge near the IoS where the revenant appears on UV and I realized the final boss was a fucking wall.

 

I played Doom 1 for the first time as a teen. I had already beaten Doom 2 a few times by the time I went to play Doom 1. I liked the game but I just didn't have the same connection I had with Doom 2.

 

 

tl;dr: I like Doom 2 because Nostalgia. Also though the levels of Doom 2 is really abstract and sometimes incoherent, I think game-play wise, they are as good as Doom 1 levels.

[reflex17]

The thing about Doom 2 is I always wished it had more levels that were clearly identifiable as city/urban environments. Sure there's tons of awesome usermaps out there to fill the void, but it's just not the same, man.

[yakfak]

I prefer Doom 2 because Doom 1's levels are abstract and incoherent

[unerxai]

I prefer Doom's level design, but Doom 2 gets my vote for the new monsters, ssg and the higher difficulty which still holds up these days (assuming we're talking Doom and not UDoom).

[Joshua Schäferhund]

8 hours ago, seed said:

 

Doom's levels from Episode 2 onward definitely get more complex, but there's only a few of them that really are more "mazey" in their nature, namely E2M5, E3M5 and E3M7. Apart from those, I'm having a hard time seeing any other maps as such, and even here, it's not difficult to find the way through at all (taking the flashing teleporter on E3M5 for instance).

 

It's not so much that they're more complex, in fact it's more so the opposite. The maps generally feel far less polished and don't have nearly as solid of an overall gameplay flow compared to Romero's maps for Episode 1. They also don't have nearly as solid architecture and often don't have as much height variation. The entire red key maze in E2M6 is basically a glorified Wolf3D maze that is boring and tedious to navigate with the dark atmosphere being the only thing going for it. An immersive atmosphere means nothing when the gameplay of your map is lackluster.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Patch93

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Doom 2 for too many reasons. Also E1 makes me fall asleep no one can make me change my mind!!1

[kaleb.]

i prefer Doom 2 for the more enemies and of course the super shotgun. plus i feel like the levels are just more fun and well laid out.

 

Doom 1 is good but honestly i think only KDITD is the only truly *great* episode on it. episode 2 is good, not great. episode 3 is just ok, and episode 4 is a real mixed bag imo.

[CyberDreams]

The original Doom (Ultimate Doom is good too) as i still really like how it flows as well as the level design. Episode 1 is a classic. E2 is pretty good and E3 is in hell basically so you just gotta love it. I also don't need an SSG to kill things, but it would help ;)

Edited September 29, 2019 by CyberDreams : spelling error

[seed]

22 hours ago, Patch93 said:

It's not so much that they're more complex, in fact it's more so the opposite. The maps generally feel far less polished and don't have nearly as solid of an overall gameplay flow compared to Romero's maps for Episode 1. They also don't have nearly as solid architecture and often don't have as much height variation. The entire red key maze in E2M6 is basically a glorified Wolf3D maze that is boring and tedious to navigate with the dark atmosphere being the only thing going for it. An immersive atmosphere means nothing when the gameplay of your map is lackluster.

 

Interesting points, but I personally still think they're well designed and play very well, in addition to being accompanied by solid atmosphere and music.

 

I just see them as being more nonlinear than the first Episode, which is not bad here for me.

[Stocki]

Recently posted it in another thread already. I prefer the first part. The atmosphere plays a large role here.

Doom 2 levels tend to be a little bit too long. That on itself wouldn't be too bad. But ca. in the second half the levels become an indistinguishable mess for me. (And don't get me started on the city levels...) In this regard Doom 1 was FAR better. Each episode had it's own style and they all built up to the fight with the end-boss.

The only thing I miss were the really nice additions to the list of enemies in Doom 2.

But atmosphere is much more important to me. I'll always choose the first part.

[purist]

Doom 2. For me, the episode format and the absence of the SSG is the only thing Doom has going for it and there is an argument to made both ways on both those things.

 

I feel like Doom's level design is overrated. Most of the E1 maps are well designed but there is (understandably) no difficulty so they are only worth repeat play for nostalgia. Outside E1 the maps don't measure up to Doom 2 at all.

 

I think the opposing view is due to Doom levels being more accessible and forgiving. There are some design choices that make progression obscure in Doom 2 and it is uneven in terms of some routes being much easier than others but it has Doom 1 beat for repeated play.

[bfredric]

I agree with a lot of you that Doom had better atmosphere and story compared to Doom 2 but for years every time I played Doom 2 I thought "there's the first time we see a hell knight" or "wow look it's the first revenant!" and of course what else can I say about the super shotgun... I voted for Doom 1 but that's purely subjective.

[HLRaven]

Man this one is a hard one for me. I like Doom 2 because of it's new enemies, all of them are great besides pain elemental (yes i like archvile, no i am not human) and the super shotgun, but i'd go with Doom 1 because it has a great atmosphere, level design and flow, if Doom 2 had that then i would have voted for it

[Nine Inch Heels]

Doom II for me please:

 

-More enemies, and most importantly, those enemies fill gaps in OG-Doom's overall very lacking combat chain

 

-Bigger maps, and also pretty large outoor maps in comparison to OG-Doom...

 

-More gimmicks, that deviate from OG-Doom's "simple shooting gallery formula": chasm, barrels of fun, traps and tricks

 

-IOS: In spite of being a type of map most people have become tired of, it is still spectacular in its own right to fight something with a head bigger than a whole cybie

 

-More textures: Yes, that's right, Doom2 has MOAR textures. However rushed the maps may have been, the resource package is vastly superior to OG-Doom's

 

-Better gameplay: DoomII's gameplay is better, because it has the better roster, and it isn't afraid to use it. OG-Doom is a door-and-cornercamp-fest by comparison.

 

-Romero sez: "DoomII is better because of the supershotgun."  God himself said it's the better game, what more do you need to know?

 

 

...ebircsbus dna tnemmoc ekil ot erus eb...

[[McD] James]

Doom 1's maps are a bit more balanced and tightly designed than Doom 2's, and the soundtrack is definitely better, but Doom 2 features some of the very best enemies in any video game (including my favorite; The Archvile), and has one of the best weapons in any video game; The Super Shotgun. Doom 2's maps are also a bit more ambitious and varied than Doom 1's. Some of the gimmicks and traps in Doom 2 don't appeal to everyone, but I ultimately find Doom 2's maps more fun to play. Doom 2 also has some of my favorite Easter Eggs in a video game. Doom 2 is easily my preferred game. 

[spineapple tea]

I would say Doom II just for the modding scene 

[Joshua Schäferhund]

On 9/28/2019 at 9:51 AM, kaleb. said:

i prefer Doom 2 for the more enemies and of course the super shotgun. plus i feel like the levels are just more fun and well laid out.

 

Doom 1 is good but honestly i think only KDITD is the only truly *great* episode on it. episode 2 is good, not great. episode 3 is just ok, and episode 4 is a real mixed bag imo.

 

I'd say episode 2 is just alright and episode 3 is crap. The only map I really liked in that entire episode was Mt. Erebus due to it's open sandbox design being a precursor of sorts to Sandy's city maps in Doom 2. Pandemonium was alright, but everything else was below average. House of Pain and Warrens feel like they were cobbled together at the last minute.

 

I thought Episode 4 was pretty good. I found the drop in difficulty after E4M2 to be a bit disappointing, but I felt the episode overall was still very well made, and a vast improvement over the original registered episodes.

[Andromeda]

Off-topic: Love how the poll is balanced.

 

On-topic: Doom II for me, I tend to judge WADs by the gameplay options its levels present, and the Doom II levels in general play better than the Doom ones.

[Martin-CAI]

Doom II, because of 2 reasons:

-It's the first Doom that I've ever played and the game that I replayed the most.

-I remember the first time I played Doom I and the fighting felt kinda repetitive in comparison to Doom II, because of the variety of monsters and because of the strategy that I had to use in order to succeed.

I know that I'm putting so much emphasis on combat, but that's why I play Doom even nowadays. I don't care about atmosphere.

[geo]

I love the idea of Doom II. Bigger shotgun, bigger enemies, more levels, yet I feel Doom 1 is the superior game despite limitations of campaigns, enemies, and so on. It's levels feel more fun, it's less brown even if more grey at the start.

 

There's also a charm about how rough the levels are after the first episode that the second Doom doesn't have with its cities and conformed locations.

[Slartibartfast]

1 has way better maps. A lot more interesting to explore and IIRC more optional sections. There are hardly any maps I dislike (e4m4, hrmph), and I do a lot more weapon switching due to no SSG and less abundant ammo.

 

2 wins hardcore in monster variety and *somewhat* in uniqueness of maps (more gimmicky shit, for better and worse) but a lot of the game feels so unfinished  in comparison to most of 1.

[IncognitoMode]

doom 1 for map design

doom 2 for weapons/monsters

[Spectre01]

If we're talking the base games with no mods, I'd still pick Doom 2 because of the much improved gameplay. Doom 1 is just so limiting in enemy variety that I'd honestly play any other IWAD instead. Now don't get me wrong, I think Doom 1 has better atmosphere and cohesive sense of progression compared to Doom 2, as well as better music, but the core gameplay has not aged nearly as well.

[MassiveEdgelord]

Doom 1.

[Doomkid]

Doom 1 has better music but Doom 2 has better (insert everything else here)

 

Episode select sux I wanna keep my guns god dammit!! also e2-e4 is uglier than most of Doom 2 how am I one of the only people to notice this

[seed]

You know, lack of episode selection was a pretty double-edged sword for Doom 2. This is because it removed any and all mandatory pistol starts which definitely affected the balancing of the game.

 

I remember reading a quote in which Sandy expressed his disappointment with the difficulty of the final product a while ago, saying that the game was balanced for pistol starts, but most players started the maps with significant power ups and arsenal and they ultimately ended up making the game too easy. I have to agree here, continuous play definitely trivializes the difficulty, pistol starts manage to add a bit more difficulty to some levels.

 

The removal of the episodic format in itself was a good idea I'd say, but Doom 2 was definitely not balanced for it.