Doom 1 or 2?

[ReaperAA]

37 minutes ago, seed said:

I remember reading a quote in which Sandy expressed his disappointment with the difficulty of the final product a while ago, saying that the game was balanced for pistol starts, but most players started the maps with significant power ups and arsenal and they ultimately ended up making the game too easy. I have to agree here, continuous play definitely trivializes the difficulty, pistol starts manage to add a bit more difficulty to some levels.

 

But wasn't that about Doom 1 actually? I read somewhere that Sandy was specifically talking about E3M8. He said that the level was meant to be more challenging that E2M8 (and really it is more challenging than E2M8 when pistol started) but since most players played it continuously, that level became a joke because of players having BFG.

 

I personally think that Doom 2 actually did a better job at balancing continuous play compared to Doom 1 despite the lack of episodic pistol starts.

[seed]

10 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

But wasn't that about Doom 1 actually? I read somewhere that Sandy was specifically talking about E3M8. He said that the level was meant to be more challenging that E2M8 (and really it is more challenging than E2M8 when pistol started) but since most players played it continuously, that level became a joke because of players having BFG.

 

I personally think that Doom 2 actually did a better job at balancing continuous play compared to Doom 1 despite the lack of episodic pistol starts.

 

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that was also referring to Doom 2. I think the question Sandy was asked was whether he regrets something about Doom and the answer was something to this effect.

 

I think Doom 2 didn't do a really great job for continuous. Sure, just like you mentioned Doom didn't fare much better either, but at least you didn't get a RL on the very first map of the game and got to keep it til the very end, lol.

 

There is a secret RL on E3M1 but still...

Edited October 4, 2019 by seed

[Joshua Schäferhund]

9 hours ago, Doomkid said:

also e2-e4 is uglier than most of Doom 2 how am I one of the only people to notice this

 

Episode 4 has better use of overall texturing than both of the original registered episodes though. I'd say they're both equal, given that Sandy has never been known for making visually pleasing maps and is more focused on making them fun to play, at least with Doom 2.

 

As far as lack of episodes are concerned, just type idclev12 and idclev21 so you can play both the city and hell chapters of Doom 2 from pistol starts. That's how I do it.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Patch93

[seed]

1 hour ago, Patch93 said:

As far as lack of episodes are concerned, just type idclev12 and idclev21 so you can play both the city and hell chapters of Doom 2 from pistol starts. That's how I do it.

 

Or press the map reload key if using PrBoom :p.

[TomMorgan]

Why not both with Wadsmoosh? Granted if I had to pick one, Wadsmoosh is it so I can be decisively indecisive.

[Rathori]

As far as I'm concerned, Doom II is just an IWAD platform to run community WADs on. I dislike most of the maps in it, and I never feel like replaying it, unlike The Ultimate Doom.

[FreakZoneGames]

Aside from the Super Shotgun, for me DOOM 1 is superior in every way. Especially the levels.

[nrofl]

I chose doom 2 but its close for me. Doom 1's levels are better but 2 has more assets. I go back and forth on this pretty much every day.

[𝕲𝖗𝖊𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖌𝖊𝖗1]

I prefer Doom2 over the rest, but only for the weapons and monsters.

I actually prefer the levels/atmosphere of Doom1 over Doom2.

 

For me : Doom 2 > Doom 2016 / Doom 1 (tied) > Doom 64 > > > Doom 3

 

My favorite custom mix of Doom is MetaDoom + Doom 2's engine + Doom 1's levels (converted for use in Doom 2).

Though the Doom3 and Doom 2016 rips feel out of place.

[CrocketRocket]

I perfer Doom 2 over Doom 1. I just like the new enemies that were added into the game that have their own twist on the players encouters. 

Spoiler

Except for the pain elemental the brown cunt

However my main beef with Doom 2 is how brown it is

[Plasma Slayer]

I’ve been thinking about the topic of Doom vs Doom 2 and my thinking is as follows: Doom 2’s combat rhythm is superior thanks to the addition of the Super Shotgun as well as the expanded monster roster. But Doom 1’s level design and general aesthetics are superior. 
 

What do you all think?

[Doom-X-Machina]

Little column A, little column B...

[nname]

3 hours ago, Plasma Slayer said:

I’ve been thinking about the topic of Doom vs Doom 2 and my thinking is as follows: Doom 2’s combat rhythm is superior thanks to the addition of the Super Shotgun as well as the expanded monster roster. But Doom 1’s level design and general aesthetics are superior. 
 

What do you all think?

I do agree to an extent, but I must say, that certain episodes/levels in Doom 1 are worse, than certain Doom 2 levels. And the other way around, it seems like the guys at id were really bored when making some of Doom 2's levels.

 

It's also natural, that Doom 2 feels more dynamic, they knew the engine a lot more and the addition of the SSG and the new monsters only makes it better. Although this is a controversial topic and I believe one should not compare certain things and the classic Doom games are one of them.

 

Spoiler

Except for TNT, of course.

 

[Job]

Doom is Doom, but Doom 2 is Doom too. 

[Rymante]

I've personally always preferred Doom 2, still remember installing the game in DOS off of 5 floppy disks.  The expanded enemy roster & Super Shotgun add a lot to the experience IMO.

 

Also, not the biggest fan of Episodes 2 & 3 of Doom 1.

[nrofl]

Definetly Doom. Romero made most of it that most likely why

[Loud Silence]

Why they should fight each other?

[Plasma Slayer]

11 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

Why they should fight each other?

 

Just a fun discussion topic -- I love them both!

[Maximum Matt]

3 hours ago, Job said:

Doom is Doom, but Doom 2 is Doom too. 

[nostalgia]

Ultimate Doom.

[Hellektronic]

I think I like the flow of Doom 1 more, Doom 2 seems... I dunno... excessive. Lots of traps, and enemy counts that rise well above reasonable, lol. You know, it was like a challenge wad on ultraviolence. It kinda inspired the trend of slaughter maps and gameplay like the Serious Sam games. I realize that's because most people thought UV was too easy in 1, but eh, it's still excessive.

 

I especially didn't like a lot of Sandy Petersen's maps in Doom 2. They were like minigames, not even hardly Doom anymore... like Barrels o' Fun and Tricks and Traps. Although I will say, I did like the aesthetic of the wide open city maps like Suburbs.

[seed]

I prefer the overall atmosphere of Doom, especially E3 since I'm a sucker for red hell, as stereotypical and overdone it may be nowadays, but gameplay wise, it will probably always be Doom 2.

 

It may not be as aesthetically pleasing as the original, but it plays a whole lot better than it ever did.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Good question, DooM vs DooM II.

Both have their good points and bad points:

 

DooM [E1 > E3] :

Spoiler

 

+ Great and very memorable tracks like "At DooM's Gate", "Dark Halls", "Deep In The Code", "Hiding The Secrets" and "U N T I T L E D".

 

+ I think DooM 1 eased the player into the new episodes far better than DooM II did and it made getting into the swing of things a little more enjoyable.

 

+ DooM vary rarely felt cheap in its design (with the exception of THAT map from episode 3). Quite often it gave you ways around dealing with some of the harsher traps.

 

 

- Due to it being the first DooM game, it sadly lacks the incredibly useful super shotgun which really helps deal with the damage spongy cacodemons and barons.

 

- About half of the soundtrack is fairly generic. Despite it containing some really good bangers, it also contains a lot of dead-air in terms of music tracks and some get used 3-4 TIMES.

 

- DooM's maps are very small and, with the exception of ONE map, fairly linear overall.

 

- Episode 4.

 

DooM II: Hell on Earth:

Spoiler

+ The super shotgun is really, flipping useful. Seriously, this thing make dealing with mid-high tier enemies much better than trying to use the piddly little peashooter of a shotgun.

 

+ I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this but: "Running from Evil" is better than At DooM's Gate personally speaking. Also, DooM II has a LOT of good music, from "Countdown to death", "Bye bye american pie", "into sandy's city", "Ultimate challenge" and even "David. D Taylor Blues".

 

+ The extra enemies meant the levels at least had some life to them. By the end of episode 2 of DooM you've seen just about every enemy barring the mastermind herself. Now we got cancer, revenoots, reskin, awachnotwons, arse-viles, the fat git, potato boi and John Romero's head on a stick.

 

 

 

- DooM II's maps aren't as memorable and a much more infuriating to complete, especially maps beyond 20. The hell levels mostly suck (23 and 26 are fun though <3).

 

- Arseviles

 

- Like DooM, the songs I don't instantly call great/good sadly feel rather generic and not super memorable, personally speaking.

 

- DooM II's maps feel less detailed than DooM 1's maps as quite often rooms feel like they're just flat textures with no extra flare. Sure, Episode 2+3 of DooM also had some problems like this but at least the majority of the maps felt detailed.

 

 

[esselfortium]

Doom 2's maps go so far beyond the simple corridors of the first game, there's just no comparison. Even without getting into how much the new monsters did to expand on the core gameplay loop to keep the game still exciting and challenging to this day.

[Final Verdict]

I enjoyed the aesthetics and atmosphere of Doom more so than Doom II, thus it will always be my favourite of the two.

 

However the additional monsters in Doom II greatly expanded on the gameplay, but it was a bit more of a mixed bag when it comes to some of its maps. I enjoyed most of them but there is a handful I wasn't crazy about. Still I can't think of any that I hated, not even the Factory. I didn't love that map, but I never hated it either.

 

There is only one map I truly hated and, ironically, it's not even in Doom II. It was in my favourite episode of Ultimate Doom: E4M4 (Unruly Evil). I know, most people would vote for Doom II's Downtown or Factory, but there you have it.

[Biodegradable]

Doom 1 starts strong, sags in the middle and then comes in strong again at the end. Doom 2 is a bit of a mixed bag of awesome maps, crappy maps and those that lie in-betwixt. Doom 1's a bit easier for me to divide up thanks to the episode structure. Naturally, E1 is the best. Every single map is just a joy to place; slick, fun, challenging, varied and creative. E2 take a bit of a dip in my opinion. There's still a few fun maps, but others feel like a real downgrade. E3 just plain sucks, I can't think of a nice thing to say about it. Feels like the id Boys were running on fumes up to this point and they all feel the same in a boring blur of Hell textures. And finally E4, which comes out swinging with McGee and Romero thoroughly nailing your arse to the wall with those two notorious opening maps. The rest of the episode isn't nearly as vicious as those two, but they're all really fun with intricate designs and layouts, plus a few neat tricks and traps to keep you on your toes.

 

Doom 2 would take too long to go into as finer detail, but since I've burned through it a fair few times I can say that it starts off a little weak for the first few maps, then gets really fun and interesting with the occasional map that makes you groan a little here and there and does so consistently for the rest of the game.

 

 

[Plasma Slayer]

1 hour ago, Biodegradable said:

Doom 1 starts strong, sags in the middle and then comes in strong again at the end. Doom 2 is a bit of a mixed bag of awesome maps, crappy maps and those that lie in-betwixt. Doom 1's a bit easier for me to divide up thanks to the episode structure. Naturally, E1 is the best. Every single map is just a joy to place; slick, fun, challenging, varied and creative. E2 take a bit of a dip in my opinion. There's still a few fun maps, but others feel like a real downgrade. E3 just plain sucks, I can't think of a nice thing to say about it. Feels like the id Boys were running on fumes up to this point and they all feel the same in a boring blur of Hell textures. And finally E4, which comes out swinging with McGee and Romero thoroughly nailing your arse to the wall with those two notorious opening maps. The rest of the episode isn't nearly as vicious as those two, but they're all really fun with intricate designs and layouts, plus a few neat tricks and traps to keep you on your toes.

 

Doom 2 would take too long to go into as finer detail, but since I've burned through it a fair few times I can say that it starts off a little weak for the first few maps, then gets really fun and interesting with the occasional map that makes you groan a little here and there and does so consistently for the rest of the game.

 

 

 

See, I loved E2 and E3 but E4 feels like half-baked Doom 2 without the new monsters or the SSG. And the levels aren't nearly as aesthetically pleasing or even interesting as E1-E3 — at least to me, anyway :-)

Edited August 15, 2020 by Plasma Slayer

[Doom-X-Machina]

Doom has better:
- Level design and atmosphere

- Soundtrack

 

Doom 2 has better:
- Monster roster

- Weaponry
- Flexibility for mapping (which ties in with it's better roster and weaponry).

[unerxai]

I prefer 2 in every aspect except maybe the soundtrack. I actually like the atmosphere and weirdness of Doom 2's maps. Reminds me of ROTT in a way.

[OldDoomer]

3 hours ago, Plasma Slayer said:

 

See, I loved E2 and E3 but E4 feels like half-baked Doom 2 without the new monsters or the SSG. And the levels aren't nearly as aesthetically pleasing or even interesting as E1-E3 — at least to me, anyway :-)

 

You have to remember that E4 in Ultimate Doom is effectively an add-on of sorts and was created much later than the original three episodes. It came along in 1995 as Ultimate Doom, a year after Doom 2 had already released in 94.

 

When Doom was originally created, E1 through E3 was supposed to tell a story visually and to a degree they do with their level design and aesthetics. E1 is mostly tech bases, E2 is hell encroaching onto the base (E2M1's first items encountered are a teleporter - not present in E1 - and a red upside down cross installed in a hallway), and E3 is hell itself. E4 is basically more hell, but with now having had Doom 2 level experience.

 

Doom 2 is supposed to be Earth yet that could mean anything & anywhere honestly. There is supposed to be a similar episode progression in Doom 2, early levels for example are tech base while later are hell. By this time I'm assuming id figured most players of Doom 2 had already played through Doom and were both hoping to give them a new experience with Doom while believing most players would have developed skills that wouldn't require the progression type gameplay Doom does decent. For example, if you look at the original levels in E1, they were all designed to be played via a pistol start however should you progress normally it was very rewarding while still leaving particular items to come (ex: you don't get a BFG in E1 at all unless via cheat code). Doom 2 has some pretty difficult levels early on that for relatively new players can be difficult to pistol start. For example, Dead Simple does give you weapons at the start and it's relatively easy to dodge Mancubi fireballs, yet little ammo and monster types that do not in-fight.

 

I feel I've probably played through Doom more than Doom 2 over the years just because of having played various ports and such that typically focus on Doom. I'd also echo a lot of what has been said about Doom 2's more 'openness' compared to Doom. I felt it was often both a good thing while simultaneously being a hindrance. Suburbs for example is pretty open for a level, but the major monster fighting is congregated to one area of the map through monster teleportation. On the other hand Doom levels never really had occurrences such as these. Doom is mostly corridors and monster encounters. The only downtime were if you needed to back track or similarly side tracked.