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Uter Lokales

Cultists of Doom Slayer

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I think the game has a Doom Slayer cult. There are some facts confirming this: 1) A voice from the very beginning of Doom 2016. 2) A choir with the inscription “Rip and Tear”

This cult can deify the Slayer of Destiny. A cult can consist of different creatures: demons, angels, people, and others (perhaps this Wretch is also one of the cultists)

image.png.a1aaa31001296a7728b4de3cec8bf96b.png

 

Edited by Uter Lokales

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I think the game has a Doom Slayer cult.  There are some facts confirming this: 1) A voice from the very beginning of Doom 2016. 2) Horse with the inscription “Rip and Tear” This cult can deify the Slayer of Destiny.  A cult can consist of different creatures: demons, angels, people, and others (perhaps this villain is also one of the cultists)

In English.

 

I wouldn’t call it a “cult”, but this was basically the entire deal with the sentinels and him being their leader.

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All hail the slayer, ripper of demons, tear-er of the big robo jerks!  (at least one robo jerk)

Edited by PsychoGoatee

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14 hours ago, PsychoGoatee said:

All hail the slayer, ripper of demons, tear-er of the big robo jerks!  (at least one robo jerk)

hail grimlord, master master of the virtual world!

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We aren't a cult. We prefer the term "Doomworld forum."

 

Doom Slayer has slowly turned into silent Duke Nuke'em.

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*Series of agitated unfs*

Subtitle translation: "Not my rabbit! Not on my planet! Those demon bastards are gonna pay for this!"

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13 minutes ago, massivefanofdoom said:

That pic is epic. I wonder where in the timeline it takes place.

My money is on a picture for an epilogue.

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22 hours ago, geo said:

My money is on a picture for an epilogue.

 

Could be, the suit in fact looks like the new version even though its missing flamethrower, predator cannon, blade etc. But then then question would be are the night sentinels revived? I guess there was never a mention of them being exterminated in full. Maybe they ended up like refugees in hell/heaven/whatever dimension, waiting to recoup and consolidate their power and numbers and for the doomslayer to return. Let's not even try think how dragons end up in the picture.

 

Alternatively, this could be during the war for argent d'nur and that priest/cultist/whatever he is on the left is Deag Grav, trying to offer some fake peace treaty or terms of surrender., or just a messenger boy for the forces of hell ala mouth of sauron. Or he is the betrayer, or the wretch.

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I'm starting to get a bit worried about this because making Doomguy stronger and the Doom Slayer aspect isn't bad but a cult around DG seems a bit of a stretch.

Like, we're at a point where people think Doomguy's main appeal is his power level when he was also a guy who suffers just to succeed at his job multiple times, even with the difficulties from it.

 

Or that he only feels anger and no other emotion, so it feels like flanderization at times.

 

It's why i liked they brought back the pain sounds because a hero having challenges/difficulties makes him interesting, so i hope they're not trying to make him super perfect or anything.

 

I won't be surprised if at least a portion of this has to do with marketing.

 

And i also hope it's not an excuse to make him super strong in gameplay (which can be justified with hard levels and tough enemies), specially if the Marauder is expected to be a rival for Doomguy or at least a strong enemy that can SSG blast us to make things interesting.

 

In fact, Marauder doesn't even have an arm blade or shoulder gun so i wonder how they'd make a character/boss/enemy mirror Doomguy when his design mirrors the Praetor's suit color scheme and red dot but not the helmet (which might arguebly be the most iconic aspect of any Doom armor except 3) since characters like Wario, DMC's Vergil and Shadow the Hedgehog are obviously meant to draw some parallels and opposites to Mario/Dante/Sonic.

 

I feel like if a classic Marauder existed, it'd be a former human type who plays like an AI/bot deathmatch player whose design is Doomguy's sprites but with red eyes in the visor and horns in the helmet.

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I agree with the gist that there seems to be this uplift in Doomguy’s meta across the series.

 

the appeal of Doomguy was that he was an ordinary human faced with extraordinary circumstances and kicked butt.

 

this new incarnation seems almost supernatural which just doesn’t sit right with me completely.
 

Hugo talks about the “power fantasy” and to me the power fantasy is more impactful when the dynamic between the hero and his enemies and challenges is heavily asymmetric; I mean there’s a mental change knowing you’re vulnerable vs knowing you’re a “Slayer”.

 

this is also why I still prefer to call him Doomguy not the Slayer because it grounds him a lot more and makes him feel like the ordinary human from the original games.

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11 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

I agree with the gist that there seems to be this uplift in Doomguy’s meta across the series.

 

the appeal of Doomguy was that he was an ordinary human faced with extraordinary circumstances and kicked butt.

 

this new incarnation seems almost supernatural which just doesn’t sit right with me completely.
 

Hugo talks about the “power fantasy” and to me the power fantasy is more impactful when the dynamic between the hero and his enemies and challenges is heavily asymmetric; I mean there’s a mental change knowing you’re vulnerable vs knowing you’re a “Slayer”.

 

this is also why I still prefer to call him Doomguy not the Slayer because it grounds him a lot more and makes him feel like the ordinary human from the original games.

 

I said kinda the same thing back then when I saw for the first time the new appearance of the character. There's an attempt to make it more and more powerful (shoulder cannon, the blade, the grappling hook of the SSG, the inflated armor). 

There are some things of it that I like, like the grappling hook, but when I see it as a whole... I don't know if I like that our "normal" human that made incredible things now those things are justified because of his outstanding arsenal. I'm worried about the next games, what are gonna be the next steps? The capacity of flying? A rocket launcher on the back? 

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I don't mind most of the mechanics since they could work without the "super strong power fantasy" thing, so it's more of a marketing/identity thing to me.

You could either make the Slayer a different character or find some good ways to make him and DG the same character but regardless, i feel like Doom never really needed a "universe" trying to explain and tie everything, because to me, a Doom universe means something else, like new but fitting gameplay, designs, mechanics, guns, enemies, levels, etc but not really "lore" or worldbuiling, specially when the stories in the first games are inconsistent because it's not a focus.

 

If there's something that probably got worse in lore or direction than Doomguy, it's probably Hell, because looking less "abstract" and having UAC creating most enemies either makes Hell less of the main villain or makes them weak, so that might as well contradict the power level aspect of "one guy vs Hell", if Hell gets its power level lowered.

 

I've seen someone say the DoomHunter's design is weird because it doesn't look that practical (like with the exposed tubes) and that could be another reason why it should have been demons who created their enemies. (specially if they just do it with god like/supernatural magic)

Because UAC scientists creating a cybernetic demon would think more about how their creations should make sense because, you know, science.

 

Demons probably don't care about logic since they defy it and they're either dumb (some of them) or just find ways to alter reality because of their evil existence.

 

Then again, regardless of how i see this, it's still someone's vision and there is always going to be something interesting and good about it. (plus, the devs probably felt exhausted before the delay, so i hope they don't really throw away things that they worked hard on because of nitpicky complaints, even if some come from me)

 

Still think the DoomHunter looks cool, though.

 

Edit: also, some of the stuff that is from these games is why some different art directions in a new game could be good because Doom already had recurring ideas executed differently but it's mostly from the original games (with some exceptions like the Doom 3 HK inspiring his new designs) so seeing the Marauder or Doom's Heaven executed differently in another Doom game could be cool.

Also, the Soul Cube was in Doom 2 RPG and had a unique design in it.

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20 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

I agree with the gist that there seems to be this uplift in Doomguy’s meta across the series.

 

the appeal of Doomguy was that he was an ordinary human faced with extraordinary circumstances and kicked butt.

 

this new incarnation seems almost supernatural which just doesn’t sit right with me completely.
 

Hugo talks about the “power fantasy” and to me the power fantasy is more impactful when the dynamic between the hero and his enemies and challenges is heavily asymmetric; I mean there’s a mental change knowing you’re vulnerable vs knowing you’re a “Slayer”.

 

this is also why I still prefer to call him Doomguy not the Slayer because it grounds him a lot more and makes him feel like the ordinary human from the original games.

Oh yeah, such a supernatural power fantasy if he can get bashed to death by an imp.

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12 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

Oh yeah, such a supernatural power fantasy if he can get bashed to death by an imp.

 

That's a fair point. I mean it wouldn't be a video game if the character couldn't be killed. And I guess id have countered the increased power levels of Doomguy by making enemies much harder to fight compared to the original games.

But they don't cancel each other out; the Slayer is still far more a force of nature compared to Doomguy even with the increased difficulty.

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9 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

 

 And I guess id have countered the increased power levels of Doomguy by making enemies much harder to fight compared to the original games.

 

 

Sometimes there are a few "drawbacks" like how the Mancubi don't really shoot two fireballs at the same time and how Revenant's rockets don't really feel like they're homing at you. (they had this in the MP in 2016 but not the singleplayer, so hopefully, he actually shoots homing rockets in Eternal's singleplayer)

 

Hitscan can lead to another case where "regular" soldiers with those plasma guns is one thing but the idea of former humans carrying the same weapons as you (like the shotgunner) doesn't seem to carry on 2016 or Eternal, even with the notion of this new UAC developing stronger weapons with alt fires.

Maybe the Marauder (or marauders) will fill this idea with the Super Shotgun and probably more.

 

I feel like, because of the power fantasy focus, hitscan might fit more in these new games.

 

Thinking about it, in classic Doom with the exception of the BFG, SSG and chainsaw, most enemies had attacks that parallel your arsenal (zombies with guns, demons with rockets, Arachno plasma)  and unique attacks like homing rockets and Archvile's fire pillars, while in 2016, enemies still have unique attacks and some variety but you can still get the impression that there was a LOT of focus in your weapons and moveset.

 

I thought the Carcass' shield ability was inspired by the wall shield from 2016's MP, making me wonder if some enemy abilities are inspired by more unique weapons from the MP or something.

 

Also, something to add up on the current state of Doomguy, i wonder if a motivation for it is to make him more "video game hero", which i prefer over trying to make him a "super hero"... if you know what that means.

Like, trying to expand on his "moveset" for some crossover potential that may never happen.

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On 10/19/2019 at 6:43 AM, Martin-CAI said:

 

I said kinda the same thing back then when I saw for the first time the new appearance of the character. There's an attempt to make it more and more powerful (shoulder cannon, the blade, the grappling hook of the SSG, the inflated armor). 

There are some things of it that I like, like the grappling hook, but when I see it as a whole... I don't know if I like that our "normal" human that made incredible things now those things are justified because of his outstanding arsenal. I'm worried about the next games, what are gonna be the next steps? The capacity of flying? A rocket launcher on the back? 

Agreed.

 

It's kind of like the first Matrix, vs Matrix Reloaded, and its sequels.  Was awesome when Neo was vulnerable, didn't know what was going to happen, etc...  When you find out he's the one, you know he can't really die, atleast until there's some closure.

 

With Doomguy, he seems almost immortal.  His death's were still cool, but idk, maybe I'm just an old Doom lover, but the classics have him screaming when dying.  Even more so in D64, the screams and sfx were way more pronounced when injured and dying!  (this is not to discredit when things eat you and rip you limb from limb, cuz that's frickin cool too, and also not discrediting the silent Doomguy theme they have in D16.  Just liked how Doomguy is mortal and it showed).

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not being a satanist is being a cultist?

it doesnt seem like Our Hero is into saving lives much these days.  what exactly are these 'slayer cultists' expecting besides heroic and brutal deeds?  as far as i can tell, the cult of sammy hasbeen crumbled rather expectedly.  and well, i would hate to be next on that xmas list.

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They say Doomguy is like a serial killer to the demons (and they're the ones trapped with him) but i like to see Doomguy more of an action hero as a horror protagonist who's surrounded by serial killers that somehow failed at killing him.

Doomguy could have taken notes from a character like Guts from Berserk in the sense that most of the time, you can see him struggle and even suffer when fighting his enemies.

They are demons from Hell and a representation of evil after all.

Doomguy's pain voice sounds and the visible bloody mug supports this to some degree.

 

The fact that demons in Eternal have visible damage means they could bring back the HUD face and even add some improvements and twists to that, in regards to glory kills, first person deaths, cutscenes even etc...

Doom doesn't need to be super edgy like someone's fanfiction but knowing Doom 3 and even some bits of some other games, it could make sense and be executed well.

 

For what we know, a reason to idealize Doomguy is because of the probability that he could die and fate is against him, not because he's a chosen one and his power level.

That's why Zombiemen work because they technically say "this could be you if you die" (same for the walls of stretched faces, soulspheres and almost any corpse you run into) and ii hope the Marauder means there are other Slayers, some of which died or went through worse than death.

He's kind of an underdog that surpasses the odds against him and the universe doesn't have to feel like its bending itself for him.

 

Instead of demons being afraid of him, they could be angry because they're all saying "why is this stupid, puny human still alive" and Doomguy smiles back, while looking damaged to the point he could make Freddy Krueger look cute.

He could technically laugh at them because of this fact. (an intermission text in D64 seems to have implied him laughing if i recall)

 

Again, this could sound edgy but i sort of prefer this over him having his own equivalent of a Devil Trigger form and a Batmobile just to show off how strong he is, even if unlike glory kills or the dash ability, they serve no gameplay use at all.

There's some satisfaction of being in the shoes of someone overcoming an adversary above your league.

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