Game Obsessions You Don't Understand

[hybridial]

25 minutes ago, seed said:

I don't think there's going to be an argument on it, but to me it sounds more like personal preference rather than being objectively bad. Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you just don't like the design philosophy of the game, which is what others like, including yours truly.

 

 

Bringing objectivity and subjectivity into art is always going to be a difficult thing. I mean I don't like that design philosophy because I think it IS objectively bad, because I don't believe it was done well nor do I think it could have been done well that way. And also a game came out a handful of years later on the Xbox that I thought straight up did the immersion thing better, a game called Breakdown which I did a post on in another topic, I'll link you to that. What that game did wasn't like how Half Life did it, it was how to do it if any actual effort was made in the Half Life games to do it, and Breakdown did come out before Half Life 2. 

 

I was going to go on a bit of a philosophical rant about why I don't really like that stance you've taken but eh, forget it, all I can really say is what I just said, and to ask you to respect it though you completely disagree with it. I'm fine with the disagreement but a bit less so with feeling a bit patronised here.

 

And on Bioshock Infinite. It's a terrible game, and one of the worst most abysmal, most offensive to be honest, stories I have ever come across. I kinda think I know why it happened the way it did, but my stance on that game is this level of hostile; it should have been scrapped completely when Ken Levine realised he was going to have to destroy his work to get it out the door, because its existence as it is, is genuinely worse than if it all stayed on the cutting room floor. Now is it a huge negative, like say genuine propaganda pieces that have hateful messages? No, its very minor compared to that, but its still a negative, because the end result is irresponsibly ugly.  

 

 

 

 

 

[BBQgiraffe]

On 12/8/2019 at 10:20 AM, Nekr0s1s said:

This is a rather recent obsession, as far as i know. But basically, why are some games names written in uppercase? (such as Wrath: Aeon of Ruin, Dusk, etc.) Are developers so desperate to call people's attention, they are resorting to shouting?

because that's how proper nouns work?

 

[seed]

16 minutes ago, hybridial said:

Bringing objectivity and subjectivity into art is always going to be a difficult thing. I mean I don't like that design philosophy because I think it IS objectively bad, because I don't believe it was done well nor do I think it could have been done well that way. And also a game came out a handful of years later on the Xbox that I thought straight up did the immersion thing better, a game called Breakdown which I did a post on in another topic, I'll link you to that. What that game did wasn't like how Half Life did it, it was how to do it if any actual effort was made in the Half Life games to do it, and Breakdown did come out before Half Life 2. 

 

I was going to go on a bit of a philosophical rant about why I don't really like that stance you've taken but eh, forget it, all I can really say is what I just said, and to ask you to respect it though you completely disagree with it. I'm fine with the disagreement but a bit less so with feeling a bit patronised here.

 

And on Bioshock Infinite. It's a terrible game, and one of the worst most abysmal, most offensive to be honest, stories I have ever come across. I kinda think I know why it happened the way it did, but my stance on that game is this level of hostile; it should have been scrapped completely when Ken Levine realised he was going to have to destroy his work to get it out the door, because its existence as it is, is genuinely worse than if it all stayed on the cutting room floor. Now is it a huge negative, like say genuine propaganda pieces that have hateful messages? No, its very minor compared to that, but its still a negative, because the end result is irresponsibly ugly. 

 

Oh I respect your opinion, don't worry. I accept different or opposite opinions to my own, I don't struggle with accepting them, nor do I think they're invalid because I disagree with them :p. In this case, I guess we can just agree to disagree.

 

But someone's gonna have to expand on Infinite and why it is a bad game. Back when it first came out it got universal or almost universal acclaim, and I didn't hear much if anything bad about it. I'm gonna need more info to get the idea.

[Vermil]

For me it's probably realistic sports games. I like a bit of unrealism in my games.

[cambreaKer]

41 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

I am talking about the Postal games (particularly Postal 2). Why do people love it so much? Now I admit I haven't played it but from the many videos that I have watched, its just a clunky game where the player has to do edgy stuff like killing and burning people, pissing on them, use cats as silencers etc etc. I mean, I understand some people may like that mayhem, but its not like other games didn't do it.

well you don't NEED to kill people, piss on then or use cats as silencers, in fact, you can beat the game without killing anybody and it will even show a special message at the end

 

[[Vitz!]]

18 minutes ago, Vermil said:

For me it's probably realistic sports games. I like a bit of unrealism in my games.

I feel the same but I'd apply this mainly to racing games instead. Realism stuff really killed racing games to me.

[hybridial]

I'm not a lover of the Postal games but I would at least say they have decent gameplay mechanics. Postal 2's gunplay is more my idea of fun than a lot of more serious games. When I did decide to play it not that long ago, my playthrough ended due to a bug and I didn't like it enough to be willing to continue with it, but I did actually come away with some understanding with people's fondness for it, and Postal 4 is even on my radar just a little. Not till its done though, well as done as a Postal game can be. 

[[McD] James]

I understand the appeal of the Postal games, but that doesn't change the fact that I hate them and think they're crap. 

[ReaperAA]

While I understand the love for mayhem, I just don't get how a game that focuses ONLY on that aspect while also being janky can be so much loved by people. Hell it has a 96% steam user rating. How on Earth?

 

Quote

well you don't NEED to kill people, piss on then or use cats as silencers, in fact, you can beat the game without killing anybody and it will even show a special message at the end

While I am aware of the pacifist play (the one that gives the Jesus message), it is not how most people play and its there only as a challenge.

[hybridial]

3 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

Well I understand the love for mayhem, I just don't get how a game that focuses ONLY on that aspect while also being janky can be so much loved by people. Hell it has a 96% steam user rating. How on Earth?

 

 

Something something I get it more than Half Life's popularity something something 

 

XD

 

[reflex17]

1 hour ago, hybridial said:

 

 

Bringing objectivity and subjectivity into art is always going to be a difficult thing.

 

 

 

Agreed, what bothers me is when folks take an attitude of "it's great how it is just accept it", while I agree that Half-life1&2 and any number of any other games were amazing for the time, it's completely valid to critique and give opinions. You don't have to be a game dev or have worked on the game or anything, casual opinions are a goldmine for different perspectives that weren't anticipated. Post-mortems are invaluable tools for looking at games, like looking back on an old situation with a new perspective. As soon as you title the piece, give it a frame and hang it on the wall, then it is "done". If you painted a scene and it's hanging in your living room you can take it down and change it if you want. Not so for 20 year old games. Sure there's usermods that correct or expand on gameplay that was set in stone the day it was shipped, but real critique happens when looking at a thing 'for what it is in itself'. The real value to me is the discussions we can have looking at historic works, all collectively standing now in the gallery, as it were.

[ReaperAA]

4 minutes ago, hybridial said:

Something something I get it more than Half Life's popularity something something

 

You like what you wanna like sir. I respect your opinion for not liking HL. After all, I too think that certain aspects of HL really show their age.

[Mayomancer]

MMORPGS. It's not like i don't get them, exactly, i like the concept, but i didn't commit to any MMO so far, the one i played the most being Neverwinter at 120 hours.

The main attraction of games like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter to me is getting all the good gear and upgrading all my shit etc, but i never felt any MMO to be as satisfactory to grind, and some people spend thousands of hours on them so that's what i dont really get. I'm taking MMO suggestions though

Edited December 9, 2019 by GhoulDesecrator

[hybridial]

1 minute ago, ReaperAA said:

 

You like what you wanna like sir. I respect your opinion for not liking HL. After all, I too think that certain aspects of HL really show their age.

 

Yeah I was just being cheeky, although I think my guess as to why Postal 2 has its fans is it does have a lot of spirit to it and quite an acerbic sense of humour, and whilst the first one is of questionable taste I think the second game was much more developed. It's still not gonna be everyone's cup of tea though thats for sure, but I won't lie I liked some of its cynicism and thats something that I don't really think there is enough of in games. And thats probably why it is well liked, because it doesn't have a lot of competition in that regard, well, not much competition worth speaking about anyway. Maybe Saints Row 2. 

[Jello]

2 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

To be brutally honest, the love of Half Life is not due to its storyline but rather how the story was presented. At @seed mentioned, it was the narrative, immersion, and fun but easy combat with some puzzles. This made it a unique experience back in the day. Although I can understand that those who don't like that stuff may hate it for how much it influenced the industry.

 

Now moving away from Half Life discusion, I want to talk about a game franchise that I really don't get the appeal of. I hope things won't get too hot (as some of the devs of that games series are members of doomworld). I am talking about the Postal games (particularly Postal 2). Why do people love it so much? Now I admit I haven't played it but from the many videos that I have watched, its just a clunky game where the player has to do edgy stuff like killing and burning people, pissing on them, use cats as silencers etc etc. I mean, I understand some people may like that mayhem, but its not like other games didn't do it. For example, we can do all kinds of nasty stuff in GTA games as well but those games are also actually well made games with decent substance in them beyond the mayhem. What does Postal really offer?

For me, it's just relaxing and cathartic. I can sit down, play the game, cause some mayhem, and it doesn't really matter if I accomplish anything. It's just fun to fuck things up, as janky as it may be. It does remind me of GTA, but starting with GTA 4 the series started taking itself way too seriously. Causing mayhem wasn't fun anymore.

 

The game is clunky, running on such an old engine. However it has humor and charm the likes of which I've never really seen in any other game. *Hit somebody in the head with a shovel* "Would you believe me if I say I saw a spider?" "How would you like it if somebody called you a lunatic?" Is Postal 2 janky as fuck? Yeah it is. But I still love playing it because of the carefree atmosphere, weapon variety, witty one-liners, and relatively open world. Is it the best game in the world? No. Is it one of the best games, yes. If you have a sense of humor. 

 

And keep in mind, Postal 2 is 16 years old now, so it will show it's age. However it's still held up better than Doom 3 or Half-Life 2, or pretty much any game from the mid 2000's. So some credit is due.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Jello

[ketmar]

oh, seems that i am late to the party. but anyway, i want to throw my two cents into Half-Life debate. for me, it is mediocre game (fun for the first time, but there is little value in replaying it). but! for me, it did one thing right, the thing modern games seems totally forgot -- it never ever takes control from the player (with, maybe, one or two exceptions). what i really hate in modern games are cutscenes. the first time the game takes away my ability to control my character, the immersion is dead for me. 'cmon, it is not some stinky movie, it is a videogame! and, dear developers, you may not know it, but videogames are about people doing actions, not about people watching cutscenes.

 

sure, it is way easier to tell a story with cutscenes, but if a want to watch some moving pictures, i know where the nearest cinema theater is.

[hybridial]

Just now, ketmar said:

 it did one thing right, the thing modern games seems to totally forgot -- it never ever takes control from the player (with, maybe, one or two exceptions). what i really hate in modern games are cutscenes. the first time the game takes away my ability to control my character, the immersion is dead for me.

 

 

You're not wrong, but I pretty much take whatever points those games get for this for the driving sections in the second game, because they really should have known better. 

[ketmar]

8 minutes ago, hybridial said:

but I pretty much take whatever points those games get for this for the driving sections in the second game, because they really should have known better.

yeah, i'm not saying that HL did it all perfectly. and HL2 is booooring (personal opinion! ;-). but if we'll take something like "Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus", for example... for me, there is barely any game there at all, they put some gameplay there so that shitty movie can be sold as "videogame".

[hybridial]

@ketmar - I didn't even like the New Order when I played it, so I can only imagine how dreadful the New Colossus is. 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

What I'm about to say will probably get me crucified by some people but, what was the big deal about Quake outside of it's technological side of being fully 3D? I've played through all 4 episodes and wow, it does NOT age very well. For starters, the double barrel shotgun is more of a liability than useful, often leading me to either take damage trying to point-blank blast something so it'd do damage or it misses and takes me ages to chip away at them from short-medium range. Another weapon that's pathetic is the grenade launcher. At first I thought lobbing grenades around corners would be cool but then I realised just ramming the rocket launcher into their face seemed to yield about the same result.

 

Another issue I have is the balancing of the enemies. Ogres are like barons. Tanky and hard hitting. Unlike the baron in DooM however, Ogres are nearly EVERYWHERE. Seriously these guys pack a hard punch and can take some serious beating before they go down! Why make them so frequent on EASY? Another enemy that should just have been cut was the spawn. Really fast, erratic and explodes if they get too close to you. From what I read they were added late into the game's development and was so un-balanced the dev's had to cut back on it's usage.

 

Finally, the mission packs. I'd happily say what's wrong with them but I'd be writing an essay and a half on each game alone.

 

To sum things up, I genuinely hate quake.

[[McD] James]

The double-barreled shotgun and grenade launcher are both very useful. You're not using them correctly. 

[Dragonfly]

5 hours ago, [Vitz!] said:

I mean... I understand that some of these games may have nice characters, sometimes a good enough story and/or gameplay, but the fact that they are trying to rip me off at any chance they get (especially with mobile games) really destroys any mood I would have for playing that kind of game.

 

You gotta turn it on it's head - I find enjoyment in those games by being someone who ranks highly despite not spending a penny.

[[Vitz!]]

16 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

You gotta turn it on it's head - I find enjoyment in those games by being someone who ranks highly despite not spending a penny.

Still sounds like a waste of time on something that isn't fun at all to me, but you do you.

[BBQgiraffe]

4 hours ago, cambreaKer said:

well you don't NEED to kill people, piss on then or use cats as silencers, in fact, you can beat the game without killing anybody and it will even show a special message at the end

 

 

well, I know what I'm doing on Saturday 

[hybridial]

1 hour ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

What I'm about to say will probably get me crucified by some people but, what was the big deal about Quake outside of it's technological side of being fully 3D? I've played through all 4 episodes and wow, it does NOT age very well. For starters, the double barrel shotgun is more of a liability than useful, often leading me to either take damage trying to point-blank blast something so it'd do damage or it misses and takes me ages to chip away at them from short-medium range. Another weapon that's pathetic is the grenade launcher. At first I thought lobbing grenades around corners would be cool but then I realised just ramming the rocket launcher into their face seemed to yield about the same result.

 

Another issue I have is the balancing of the enemies. Ogres are like barons. Tanky and hard hitting. Unlike the baron in DooM however, Ogres are nearly EVERYWHERE. Seriously these guys pack a hard punch and can take some serious beating before they go down! Why make them so frequent on EASY? Another enemy that should just have been cut was the spawn. Really fast, erratic and explodes if they get too close to you. From what I read they were added late into the game's development and was so un-balanced the dev's had to cut back on it's usage.

 

Finally, the mission packs. I'd happily say what's wrong with them but I'd be writing an essay and a half on each game alone.

 

To sum things up, I genuinely hate quake.

 

The funny thing is I can kind of agree with most of this, maybe just not to the same degree... and I LOVE Quake.

 

But I find the shamblers depending on where and when they used to be the worst enemy. Ogres are a bit spongey, but everything kind of is in the game, I don't think they're that bad once you get used to killing them though.

 

On harder difficulties the game really relies on power up management, the game is generous with them on every difficulty but you need them more and more each successive level. 

 

Also you could still play Arcane Dimensions. It actually addresses at least some of your issues, mainly it rebalanced the weapons and made them better. It kind of is a better experience all in all but I will always still like vanilla. 

[BladeWolf]

Let's just say, Five Nights at Freddy's.

 

No really, I just don't know why channels like Treesicle and Game Theorists delve so much into this game's lore, that it's only possible to summarise it in less than few sentences:

 

Pizzeria gets haunted by kids who got killed by a serial killer. Their souls haunt animatronics. You're a security guard sent to night shift. You just gotta prevent those animatronics from catching you.

 

Dear Game Theory, I completed the work that you took 3 years for in 3 minutes.

[Brock]

Why do people play Overwatch when tf2 is better.Like most of the time they just say Tf2 is old XD or Tf2 is dead.

[seed]

10 hours ago, hybridial said:

Also you could still play Arcane Dimensions. It actually addresses at least some of your issues, mainly it rebalanced the weapons and made them better. It kind of is a better experience all in all but I will always still like vanilla. 

 

Nah weapon balance is actually worse in AD imo. That triple-barreled shotgun is OP as fuck. The levels are amazing but it's kind of a shame there's no progression in AD, it's just a compilation of amazing maps with no story. It's also quite experimental.

 

As about Quake itself, I think it's aged pretty well. All these years passed and it still hasn't lost its charm, it has good bestiary (better than Quake 2), fun weapons, and awesome atmosphere, although the lack of texture variety in some levels is a bit problematic with the excessive browns. The boss fights are kinda lame, especially the one against Shub which is not even a fight, you just telefrag it... (not like Q2 did better in this regard, boss fights in Q2 are super easy) but apart from these, I think it's still aged well. The expansions are a bit underwhelming though, and I think the level design is inferior overall...

[xdarkmasterx]

12 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

 

Another issue I have is the balancing of the enemies. Ogres are like barons. Tanky and hard hitting. Unlike the baron in DooM however, Ogres are nearly EVERYWHERE. Seriously these guys pack a hard punch and can take some serious beating before they go down!

 

I can't agre wtith that, escpecially in compaerison with Doom. I play ultimate doom again, and honestly if I never have to fight cacodemon, baron or horde of pinkies with the shotgun/chaingun/berserk again it wouldn't have been soon enough. Quake strongest enemy (the chambler) takes about 5 seconds to kill with the games version to chain gun, hte nail gun, if you hit it repeatedly, that's the "cyberdemon" equivalent down in less time it takes to kill a baron with small arms

[Murdoch]

Art is fundamentally subjective. Even obviously terribly stuff can be entertaining depending on the people viewing it. Look at "The Room". It fails abysmally as a drama, but is bizarrely hilarious. One man's crap is another man's gold.

 

Back to original question of the thread, I would have to say Dark Souls and Doom 64. I have seen footage of the Dark Souls game while some of the level vistas are impressive, it mostly looks grey, ugly and dull. The dialogue was hysterically awful and the gameplay looked tiresome.

 

Doom 64 I hated since I played on a Nintendo 64 I rented back in the day. Playing on the controller felt laborious. Playing it years later on the various PC "ports" felt much better. I am trying to play through Retribution now. The pace and control is much better, thank GOD the shotguns are now animated, but the rest is just kind of... meh. The textures are muddy and samey, reminding me more of a low rent Quake knock off than Doom. A couple of times I have missed switches because they are so visually similar to the surrounding wall texture. Easy to miss when you are moving quickly. The Imp and Arachnatron are kind of cool. The trooper/shotgun guy is muddy and indistinct. The pinky and pain elemental look goofy. The mancubus looks like a mutant rodent. Baron, Hell Knight and Cyberdemon are fine, not really that different to the originals. The levels have some cool ideas but are mostly bland and in some cases outright frustrating. Going to persist with it though and try to keep an open mind. I think I got to about MAP13 before giving up in frustration after I could not figure out what to do next playing through Absolution in the... early 2000s I think it was? 

 

So yeah, don't get it but am trying.