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Tetzlaff

When Doom looks more cartoony than Serious Sam...

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21 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

Well seeing as your a massive doom fan, you would understand that Doom itself is not very realistic. Shocking, I know. The point I was making was that, regardless of your opinion on the game, Doom 3 is a more realistic portrayal of the Doom story. Also I do happen to like Doom 3, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

 

Well none of doom is 'realistic' as it features demons and monsters and mass people living on mars and artifacts and weapons not ever invented (yet). So you're making zero sense 'I prefer doom3 cuz its more realistic durr' ... if you're going by the definition of realistic as you would look it up in the dictionary, which you obviously are. Now if we are going by the definition of realistic as 'how realistic it is to the origins of the series', then it isn't at all. It's like the big flop in the series for me, even though it may have done well financially, it lost the heart of doom which is action.

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15 hours ago, seed said:

 

I take winter and its dark nights over the bone-melting heat of the summer any day :p . Anyway, that analogy makes zero sense.

 

Also Doom was never realistic, even back when it came out it was perceived as "realistic" compared to what was around at the time, but in itself it didn't aim for realism through its design and premise. I mean, there's Soulspheres, Invulnerability Spheres, Possessed/Former Humans, Lost Souls, Hell, powers ups that allow the player to kill enemies with their bare hands, Spectral Armor pieces, and so on, the level of realism in Doom is just overwhelming.

 

That being said, D3 tried to present the story in a more realistic and much more serious fashion, with a very dark tone and strong sense of impeding doom and hopelessness, but that's about it. And D3 will achieve (if it hasn't already actually) classic status over time, much like its contemporaries such as HL2. The gameplay of those games is already considered old school nowadays.

 

Winter sucks, I did say its banter and not to take it personal, and the analogy does make sense (darkness vs color, d3 vs doom 2016)

 

You said it yourself, ''thats about it''. Nothing realistic about it, this isnt COD. Now the phrase used i believe was a ''realistic doom experience'' which is different to 'realistic' by definition in the dictionary. That to me would mean how faithful to the origins of the series the game in question would be, even if it had unicorns and bunnies .... owait, it had the latter!

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Following the Cambridge English dictionary: "Realistic - seeming to exist or be happening in fact".

IMHO a marine walking around and barely surviving against few monsters that take him down very quickly seems more likely to exist than a gun who's running with speed of a car and taking down dozens of enemies, while taking hits from them in the process. Moreover, some weird healthstation tech seems more likely to exist than abstract health packs lying on the ground here and there. The environments in Doom 3 are much more industrial, detailed and, yeah, likely to exist somewhere sometime. More likely than Doom1 environments anyway. That list can go on.

Overally, I think it's totally in line with the meaning of the word to call Doom 3 more realistic than the original Doom. Fantasy can have magic and dragons, and it still doesn't mean that it has reached some "0 realism" ground, where talk about realism ceases to make sense.

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5 minutes ago, Baron Pampa said:

Following the Cambridge English dictionary: "Realistic - seeming to exist or be happening in fact".

IMHO a marine walking around and barely surviving against few monsters that take him down very quickly seems more likely to exist than a gun who's running with speed of a car and taking down dozens of enemies, while taking hits from them in the process. Moreover, some weird healthstation tech seems more likely to exist than abstract health packs lying on the ground here and there. The environments in Doom 3 are much more industrial, detailed and, yeah, likely to exist somewhere sometime. More likely than Doom1 environments anyway. That list can go on.

Overally, I think it's totally in line with the meaning of the word to call Doom 3 more realistic than the original Doom. Fantasy can have magic and dragons, and it still doesn't mean that it has reached some "0 realism" ground, where talk about realism ceases to make sense.

 

Yeah that's fair enough. You win, I lose. I still do not like doom3 though. A lot of people seem to enjoy it. For me, it detracts from the overall feel going from doom1 to doom2016, it feels out of place and I never liked it. To each his own.

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I don't like it either. Environments are boring, shooting is mediocre, jumpscares are cheap. Monster art is quite cool. Just wanted to point out that it's more realistic; )

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Just now, Baron Pampa said:

I don't like it either. Environments are boring, shooting is mediocre, jumpscares are cheap. Monster art is quite cool. Just wanted to point out that it's more realistic; )

 

I get ya dude, thanks

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1 minute ago, Lila Feuer said:

Doom 3 is okay. I guess I'm a more massive fan of Doom than @massivefanofdoom. :P

 

I will change the name, ppl have been hounding me on it :( No I love the franchise as much as anyone else (its the only game i play - imagine i change pcs every 3-4 years and now ive been doing it only for doom, cuz the diablo franchise has to win me back), and if you like doom3, more power to ya.

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14 minutes ago, massivefanofdoom said:

its the only game i play


Really? I love Doom as much as the next person in this community, and The Ultimate DOOM is in my top three all-time favorite games, but I usually spree the classic game for upwards of a month or two before I move on back to other stuff.

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5 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:


Really? I love Doom as much as the next person in this community, and The Ultimate DOOM is in my top three all-time favorite games, but I usually spree the classic game for upwards of a month or two before I move on back to other stuff.

 

Heh, its weird I used to play a lot of games and now nothing interests me but Doom. That is why for the first 2 days of the delay announcement I was a bit upset more than others perhaps, as I don't have a lot of variety in gaming, well I don't have the time anyway. But today's games, (to me, I don't want to piss anyone off) just don't feel great, lack soul to me. The graphics are amazing, but classics like hexen, heretic, blood, diablo, command and conquer, TA, resident evil et al can't be replicated anymore. The sequels / remakes are worse in most instances. Doom is an exception, Doom 2016 had me like a kid again. Its probably me being old and nostalgic :)

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Have you tried retro games, like Dusk or Ion Fury? I haven't played them, but they seem to be liked a lot.

I like new games, but nothing have managed to scratch my  Diablo II itch. Funny thing, I think that Doom got closest to it, despite being a different genre.

EDIT: Just reminded myself: Darkest Dungeon also has similar atmosphere.

Edited by Baron Pampa

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3 minutes ago, Baron Pampa said:

Have you tried retro games, like Dusk or Ion Fury? I haven't played them, but they seem to be liked a lot.

I like new games, but nothing have managed to scratch my  Diablo II itch. Funny thing, I think that Doom got closest to it, despite being a different genre.

 

Exactly!!!! Diablo and doom are my 2 favs of all time and there are tons of similarities in the lore and 'art' style, nothing comes close to the classical demonic design ala LOTR balrog like doom and diablo. Maybe hexen/heretic. Just like you also, i thought diablo 3 was horrible. (Well, at least you allude to it, even though you don't explicitly say it. Amirite?)

 

I have not tried those games no, I will check them out thanks.

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I've tried the demo and it didn't convince me to buy it, especially with all the Internet connection bullshit. Seemed like a nice game - I don't find many games to be horrible. It didn't seem personally appealing though.

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31 minutes ago, Baron Pampa said:

I've tried the demo and it didn't convince me to buy it, especially with all the Internet connection bullshit. Seemed like a nice game - I don't find many games to be horrible. It didn't seem personally appealing though.

 

Money well saved.

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I thought it was okay of what I tried via the starter edition using a demon hunter, it had nice physics but I did think it was too easy (never died and Leoric was a pushover).

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5 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

I thought it was okay of what I tried via the starter edition using a demon hunter, it had nice physics but I did think it was too easy (never died and Leoric was a pushover).

 

Heh, well demo is easy mode :) There are 4 difficulties (up to inferno) and later it was changed to 'torment levels' that automatically scale as you go through the game .... it gets really really (like one shot and dumb) hard and on release it was ridiculous (the only way you could progress past (then called) inferno difficulty was by getting super lucky or else buying stuff off the Auction House, which thank god has been removed after a lot and a lot of rage and backlash (rightfully so)). There was like only one or 2 good builds in the beginning. Then they started patching and changing things and released an expansion pack, but still its mostly way more gear / attrition based like a warcraft than a diablo game like D2 where skill and creative builds mattered. And more cartoony looking than d2 or d1. Doesnt bother me in doom 2016/eternal where the originals were very colorful anyways - and its not even cartoony / bright as much as diablo 3 anyways.

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I'd say Doom always had horror but it was more on its theme/visuals/story rather than the gameplay itself, which is why 3 looks like the odd one more often.

D3 is also one of those games people think suffers just from being different rather than the execution, specially when i keep thinking about cut content and how we were robbed of the "YOUR KIND ARE OVER" blue commando lines.

 

Even if Eternal goes a bit too much with the arcade video gamey side of things, i feel like old FPS sort of had the same ideas as any other genre, even with Doom and ROTT being opposite ways on arcade elements, which sets them apart from 7th gen military FPS trying to be realistic and look like they appeal to non gamers. (and i guess nowadays, that's what cinematic, over the shoulder, sad dad games are for)

 

Something i don't think 3 or 2016 really carry from classic Doom (at least sometimes) is how levels work, when you consider Romero's level design rules, some of the other devs like Sandy or American and the overall history of megawads.

It's why i like that part in E3 where Eternal is said to have different things thrown at you in most levels. (the clip where they first reveal tentacles and radsuit's return)

 

Because they're making sure there's more variety of level situations and scenarios, which is something modern FPS either forgot to do or did it badly because when the core gameplay is really basic and lacking in mechanics, your attempt at variety is just sections that play radically different and just happen once.

 

It's not just about the variety in levels, but also when it fits the game, similar to old Doom getting maps to this day because the games are like a tool box with many things to play with. (also explains when official levels get "gimmicky" or creative like plutonia's map 11 or how tnt handles its icon of sin map, specially the death teleporters part)

 

This is also what makes you realize SnapMap had potential but wasn't handled in the best way.

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14 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I'd say Doom always had horror but it was more on its theme/visuals/story rather than the gameplay itself, which is why 3 looks like the odd one more often.

D3 is also one of those games people think suffers just from being different rather than the execution, specially when i keep thinking about cut content and how we were robbed of the "YOUR KIND ARE OVER" blue commando lines.

 

Even if Eternal goes a bit too much with the arcade video gamey side of things, i feel like old FPS sort of had the same ideas as any other genre, even with Doom and ROTT being opposite ways on arcade elements, which sets them apart from 7th gen military FPS trying to be realistic and look like they appeal to non gamers. (and i guess nowadays, that's what cinematic, over the shoulder, sad dad games are for)

 

Something i don't think 3 or 2016 really carry from classic Doom (at least sometimes) is how levels work, when you consider Romero's level design rules, some of the other devs like Sandy or American and the overall history of megawads.

It's why i like that part in E3 where Eternal is said to have different things thrown at you in most levels. (the clip where they first reveal tentacles and radsuit's return)

 

Because they're making sure there's more variety of level situations and scenarios, which is something modern FPS either forgot to do or did it badly because when the core gameplay is really basic and lacking in mechanics, your attempt at variety is just sections that play radically different and just happen once.

 

It's not just about the variety in levels, but also when it fits the game, similar to old Doom getting maps to this day because the games are like a tool box with many things to play with. (also explains when official levels get "gimmicky" or creative like plutonia's map 11 or how tnt handles its icon of sin map, specially the death teleporters part)

 

This is also what makes you realize SnapMap had potential but wasn't handled in the best way.

 

Well said. Rad suits are ... pretty rad dude :)

 

4 hours ago, MaxTrevors said:

Lol this thread sucks.

 

Nice, positive input

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A realistic Doom game would be pretty fun.

 

It'd be a running simulator though. Doom Marine tries to shoot some demons, watches his whole platoon get ripped to shreds, locks himself in a metal closet, and then blows his brains out as the existential dread of some supernatural invading evil force from another dimension kicks in.

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5 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

A realistic Doom game would be pretty fun.

 

It'd be a running simulator though. Doom Marine tries to shoot some demons, watches his whole platoon get ripped to shreds, locks himself in a metal closet, and then blows his brains out as the existential dread of some supernatural invading evil force from another dimension kicks in.

 

I thought a "realistic" Doom game would have been Hideous Destructor or something close.

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I don't see what the problem is. Doom Eternal's visuals look excellent just the way they are. 

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17 hours ago, Ajora said:

I don't see what the problem is. Doom Eternal's visuals look excellent just the way they are. 

 

I fell in love with them when I saw the first gameplay and saw the classic purple health potions :) So cute lol.

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i dont get the whole realism in video games thing anyway. if you crave realism, go do that task you have been putting off. contemplate how you will work for someone else until you are old. catch a bad cold. reality is not fun. 

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"waaah my big boy game monster looks yucky wucky" just be thankful that the DOOM franchise is still even getting games dude. 

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Whenever someone talks about the game's aesthetic being cartoony, they usually mention Dota, DarkSiders and Blizzard games and i wonder if there's a pattern that shows something about these types of the games' designs and art styles.

Like, that portrayal of Hell or demons that feels cartoonish in some way, with weird proportions, focus on fantasy elements and chitin maybe?.

It makes me wonder if it's either a trend or just standards of how we portray Hell nowadays.

 

Because even if the classic Doom's were cartoonish, there were some bits showing that they wanted the game to be creepy and Doom 3 is like an expansion on that horror aspect.

 

Classic Doom in comparison to new Doom does feel like it wants to be clear that it is a game about Hell (even with some unique twists) while new Doom is a mix if sci-fi and fantasy, and then later on there's religious references and that stuff.

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"Cartoon" implies simplified, highly stylized renders of reality. That is not the same as fantastical yet highly detailed renders of imagined objects/entities.

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I miss the good old days when Doom was realistic with it's goat-people built like pillar men, the flying red meat balls, naked humans with big goofy eyes and spikes and strutting skeletons.

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