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Loud Silence

Which monsters you have faced as ghosts?

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The imps on Icarus map 24. It was enough to get me to quit the wad altogether - I hate ghosts

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I remember first encountering ghosts in Monster Condo (I think like a specter and a shotgunner). Had no idea how it happened, thought it had something to do with the fact that I was noclipping around the map myself on God mode (I never legit played through Doom II until way later).  I remember yelling out at my brother "HOLY SHIT CHECK THIS OUT THE BADGUYS ARE NOCLIPPING QUICK COME LOOK" or something to that effect. 

Easily the most unnerving thing in Doom, as even the ancient tactic of "hide behind the wall and you'll be safe" is now unreliable, and if you don't have a rocket launcher, you're basically screwed for the level.  It's amazing how this particular quirk wasn't noticed by the creators.  

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Theres a bug that renders all enemies on the map as ghosts which has happened to me at least twice over the years. I can't remember exactly what caused it, I edited the maps and suddenly collision was fucked, but it was a simple fix iirc.

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All except those that can't become ghosts by default or under certain conditions. Don't recall if I ever got a pain elemental though.

 

@Doomkid You probably mean by an intercept overflow, it's rare and annoying.

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2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Theres a bug that renders all enemies on the map as ghosts which has happened to me at least twice over the years. I can't remember exactly what caused it, I edited the maps and suddenly collision was fucked, but it was a simple fix iirc.

Only ever happened to me one time in all my years of playing, in a big arena with multiple cyberdemons and spider masterminds. It was glorious - dodging rockets in the void and so forth. I saved it, but reloading the game didn't preserve this phenomenon- the cybers were now stuck out in the void :-)

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SS troopers, Zombiemen, Sergeants, and I think either Cacodemons or Pain Elementals.

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my first was a Hell Knight on Monster Condo.

 

Of course the remaining ghost monsters were in wads that actually incorporated usage of the bug (Reverie MAP18, HR MAP26, PL2 MAP32, Icarus MAP24, Requiem MAP23). Odd how two of those levels I mentioned had Wolfenstein SS.

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So as I understand it ghosts retain the same collision box as the pool of blood created when a monster is crushed which is why they can't be hit with most weapons. So they aren't as much ghosts as they are monsters with tiny hitboxes. This may be inaccurate though. As for going through walls I don't know why that works.

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walking through walls works since Doom's collision detection is super simple. It checks if the object's bounding box after the move would be touching anything, and responds if it is. Since the bounding box has a radius of 0 when the monster becomes a ghost, the chance of a move causing an intersection with a blocking thing is extremely low, possibly even impossible based on how things are implemented.

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I've never encountered the all-ghosts bug in my life (and I've been playing Doom since it was released), but single ghosts produced by an archvile resurrecting a crushed corpse are not too uncommon.

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58 minutes ago, Rathori said:

I've never encountered the all-ghosts bug in my life (and I've been playing Doom since it was released), but single ghosts produced by an archvile resurrecting a crushed corpse are not too uncommon.

Really? I've never had it happen. I can't imagine it would be too difficult to trigger the crushed corpse ghost given the right circumstance.

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It really depends on the map and encounter/trap design. In my experience it usually happens on maps with lots of doors, where there's a high chance you'll kill something in a doorway and its corpse will get crushed. Add a trap that releases an archvile in a way that you can't immediately kill it (say, on the other side of the map; or right in your face, but there's no cover, so you have to get out of the room), and there's a good chance that AV will resurrect a crushed corpse.

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I think it's not possible in ZDoom and ports based on it. To get this funny bug, you need to use vanilla faithful port (Chocolate Doom, Crispy Doom, PrBoom+, Eternity Engine etc.), get monster crushed (by door, explosion, berserk fist or elevator for example), Archvile nearby and hope it will decide to resurrect crushed monster.

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6 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I think it's not possible in ZDoom and ports based on it. To get this funny bug, you need to use vanilla faithful port (Chocolate Doom, Crispy Doom, PrBoom+, Eternity Engine etc.), get monster crushed (by door, explosion, berserk fist or elevator for example), Archvile nearby and hope it will decide to resurrect crushed monster.

 

Yeah, this.

 

More conservative/vanilla accurate ports allow this to happen on any maps, whereas ZDoom and its derivatives are much stricter in this regard and only allow it to happen on very specific maps or wads that have turned this bug into a feature (that one map from Icarus for instance).

 

The all-ghosts monsters bug is something I've never experienced though.

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7 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I think it's not possible in ZDoom and ports based on it. To get this funny bug, you need to use vanilla faithful port (Chocolate Doom, Crispy Doom, PrBoom+, Eternity Engine etc.), get monster crushed (by door, explosion, berserk fist or elevator for example), Archvile nearby and hope it will decide to resurrect crushed monster.

I think it still happens in some compatibility modes in ZDoom-based ports, like "Doom strict". Not 100% sure, though, I use prboom+ almost exclusively. I am, however, pretty sure that you can't "crush" a corpse with a berserk fist or explosions, it specifically has to be crushed by a door or a crusher for that bug to occur.

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3 minutes ago, Rathori said:

I think it still happens in some compatibility modes in ZDoom-based ports, like "Doom strict".

 

But only on whitelisted maps/wads as far as I'm aware.

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Ghost pain elemental stands out in my memory for some reason

 

Also have seen all-ghosts at least five times, but that's not as interesting as individual ghosts imo

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1 minute ago, Grain of Salt said:

Ghost pain elemental stands out in my memory for some reason

That must have been epic experience. :) I had crushed dying lost soul by door, there was blood splat like from any other crushed monster. Since that time i keep thinking - could crushed lost soul be resurrected by Archvile?..

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Lost souls cannot become ghosts according to the wiki (that would be awful if they could...as much as I enjoy shooting lost souls with a rocket launcher, I'd hate to be forced to deal with them via splash damage only).

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Chaingunner on one of AV map. I just killed him, doors crushed it and archvile decided to resurrect it. So that chaingunner decided search for me and kill me instatly. I didn't have rocket launcher sadly.

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The best way to deal with ghosts if you don't have the rocket launcher is by luring it into an inescapable pit, as they can't scale big walls (they can walk through floor-to ceiling walls and drop down from ledges) - they'll be contained, and obviously you already have the kill so it still counts

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On 10/12/2019 at 7:59 PM, maxmanium said:

So far I think only the imps on MAP26 of Hell Revealed.

The exact same thing happened to me in that level.

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