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Ramiel

Urdak, home world of the Maykrs

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On 12/3/2019 at 12:24 PM, Uter Lokales said:

Stratton said in an interview that the heavenly Archangels will become part of the game's finale.  And Seraphim was generally in D16 and can be seen on the "Book of Daeva" and on the DEternal art.  And again in an interview about the history of the game, Hugo said that we will meet God and classical angels, not maykrs

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Hi there :) Can you please link the interview? And did he specifically say ''God and classical angels, not just maykrs'' or he said it without mentioning Maykrs? They could be the same, I mean I really cannot see Khan Maykr with wings looking so much like their representation of an angel, and then other angelic beings. Urdak even has a halo on top of it. Also, the similarities between khan maykr and the 'angel' in the Gift of argent power lithograph are more striking than the differences, down to the centre section in the chest and the design of the robes. As for the face and wings being different ( (the face only slightly so imo), it could have been an older piece of artwork or concept. And sometimes you can have multiple visual representations of the same character in games too, with slight differences. For example mephisto, baal and diablo in the diablo series.

 

Like others have said, A god and the god are different too.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

Hi there :) Can you please link the interview? And did he specifically say ''God and classical angels, not just maykrs'' or he said it without mentioning Maykrs? They could be the same, I mean I really cannot see Khan Maykr with wings looking so much like their representation of an angel, and then other angelic beings. Urdak even has a halo on top of it. Also, the similarities between khan maykr and the 'angel' in the Gift of argent power lithograph are more striking than the differences, down to the centre section in the chest and the design of the robes. As for the face and wings being different ( (the face only slightly so imo), it could have been an older piece of artwork or concept. And sometimes you can have multiple visual representations of the same character in games too, with slight differences. For example mephisto, baal and diablo in the diablo series.

 

Like others have said, A god and the god are different too.

 

 

 

 

1. Hugo said in an interview that we will meet a “god” (I did not talk about the Christian god and that he will be just a classic, but simply summarized the word) and angels (he did not mention maykrs)

2. The angelic hierarchy itself will be wrong in Doom Eternal if their head is Khan (One magazine mentioned that she has her own kingdom, and heaven definitely should not be in her domain)

3. maykrs design can be different. For example, 3 maykrs with artifacts that are very different from the classical design of angels (although the angels “thrones” have different designs from other angels, but they still have similarities), but the fact that Khan maykr has  a similar design to angels is highly likely due to the fact that she was originally one of the first living creatures in the universe and created angels in her image

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15 hours ago, Uter Lokales said:

1. Hugo said in an interview that we will meet a “god” (I did not talk about the Christian god and that he will be just a classic, but simply summarized the word) and angels (he did not mention maykrs)

2. The angelic hierarchy itself will be wrong in Doom Eternal if their head is Khan (One magazine mentioned that she has her own kingdom, and heaven definitely should not be in her domain)

3. maykrs design can be different. For example, 3 maykrs with artifacts that are very different from the classical design of angels (although the angels “thrones” have different designs from other angels, but they still have similarities), but the fact that Khan maykr has  a similar design to angels is highly likely due to the fact that she was originally one of the first living creatures in the universe and created angels in her image

 

(3) is a very good point, it could very well be. So then again, the 'angels' could be a subspecies/genus of the maykrs, making them still maykrs. I don't know why, just call it a hunch or something, I really don't see maykrs and angels being separate in the DE universe, especially since there already is that red robed guy, who is most likely the wretch and the seraphim (although seraphim is also technically another word for angel and it is also, iirc, both singular and plural, making the whole ordeal way more confusing than it already is!).

 

(1) at least confirms that we're not sure if the angels are separate from the maykrs, or not. And (2) could very well be an extension of the idea of (3) that Khan is an 'absolute' maykr 'god' and that underneath him are other 'head maykrs' (most likely those 3) to which the angels belongs to at least one faction (I think the one in that 'incubation chamber' - the one with the spear. He seems to be the least 'evil' looking of those 3, and is also the one who appears on the busts that the slayer smashes to get health and powerups). The crucible maykr could be the architect of hell, and the one with the sphere? Is it a soul cube? Hmmm. But he also seems to have a demonic grin on him.

 

I also have an alternate idea that those 3 maykrs combine to make the Khan Maykr in the end of DE, but of course I could be wrong. Just my speculation, no official sources.

 

I really love the way they are expanding the lore, some people hate it but you cannot please everyone all the time.

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7 hours ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

(3) is a very good point, it could very well be. So then again, the 'angels' could be a subspecies/genus of the maykrs, making them still maykrs. I don't know why, just call it a hunch or something, I really don't see maykrs and angels being separate in the DE universe, especially since there already is that red robed guy, who is most likely the wretch and the seraphim (although seraphim is also technically another word for angel and it is also, iirc, both singular and plural, making the whole ordeal way more confusing than it already is!).

 

(1) at least confirms that we're not sure if the angels are separate from the maykrs, or not. And (2) could very well be an extension of the idea of (3) that Khan is an 'absolute' maykr 'god' and that underneath him are other 'head maykrs' (most likely those 3) to which the angels belongs to at least one faction (I think the one in that 'incubation chamber' - the one with the spear. He seems to be the least 'evil' looking of those 3, and is also the one who appears on the busts that the slayer smashes to get health and powerups). The crucible maykr could be the architect of hell, and the one with the sphere? Is it a soul cube? Hmmm. But he also seems to have a demonic grin on him.

 

I also have an alternate idea that those 3 maykrs combine to make the Khan Maykr in the end of DE, but of course I could be wrong. Just my speculation, no official sources.

 

I really love the way they are expanding the lore, some people hate it but you cannot please everyone all the time.

 1. The art clearly depicts the Seraph, because the “seraphs” are fiery creatures and it’s logical to make red clothes for him and the design itself from D16

  2.  I think that maykrs and angels can be interconnected, but at the same time they are different beings and they have separate kingdoms (as I wrote above in one journal it was said that Khan maykr has its own kingdom). In addition, that maykr with a “staff”  helps us by giving all kinds of power-ups (health and blood punch), which means that he is on the Doom Slayer side and this maykr is not on the side of heaven. And we don’t know about the other 2 maykrs.  Maykr with a sphere may also be in Urdak, and maykr with the Crucible is held captive by demons after Argent D'nur fell

  3. Your theory is already refuted by the fact that maykr with a staff helps Doom Slayer and all 3 maykrs were revered as gods by the inhabitants of Argent D'nur

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On 12/7/2019 at 8:37 PM, Uter Lokales said:

 1. The art clearly depicts the Seraph, because the “seraphs” are fiery creatures and it’s logical to make red clothes for him and the design itself from D16

  2.  I think that maykrs and angels can be interconnected, but at the same time they are different beings and they have separate kingdoms (as I wrote above in one journal it was said that Khan maykr has its own kingdom). In addition, that maykr with a “staff”  helps us by giving all kinds of power-ups (health and blood punch), which means that he is on the Doom Slayer side and this maykr is not on the side of heaven. And we don’t know about the other 2 maykrs.  Maykr with a sphere may also be in Urdak, and maykr with the Crucible is held captive by demons after Argent D'nur fell

  3. Your theory is already refuted by the fact that maykr with a staff helps Doom Slayer and all 3 maykrs were revered as gods by the inhabitants of Argent D'nur

 

I see, gotcha brother. Good to know. Nice information. So we have seraphs, maykrs and angels

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26 minutes ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

I see, gotcha brother. Good to know. Nice information. So we have seraphs, maykrs and angels

Seraphim is the highest angelic rank (the closest to God), and in the game D16 this angel "Seraphim" is one of them

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3 hours ago, Uter Lokales said:

Seraphim is the highest angelic rank (the closest to God), and in the game D16 this angel "Seraphim" is one of them

Since the Seraphim were directly mentioned, it makes me wonder if we’ll see the other orders of angels:

 

First Sphere:

  • Seraphim
  • Cherubim
  • Thrones

Second Sphere:

  • Dominions
  • Virtues
  • Powers

Third Sphere:

  • Rulers
  • Archangels
  • Angels

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40 minutes ago, Ramiel said:

Since the Seraphim were directly mentioned, it makes me wonder if we’ll see the other orders of angels:

 

First Sphere:

  • Seraphim
  • Cherubim
  • Thrones

Second Sphere:

  • Dominions
  • Virtues
  • Powers

Third Sphere:

  • Rulers
  • Archangels
  • Angels

I wrote many times that the heavenly Archangels will become part of the finale (Stratton said this in an interview) and we will see heaven itself. So it’s logical that we will see many more angels of different ranks 

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Cherubs were seen in Doom 3, where they were demons. Do not expect real-world mythology to apply directly to Doom Eternal's lore.

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29 minutes ago, Gez said:

Cherubs were seen in Doom 3, where they were demons. Do not expect real-world mythology to apply directly to Doom Eternal's lore.

In fact, different mythology is used in doom. The same demon Bukavac from D16, who lives in lakes or the demon Gremlin, who will spoil various techniques (maybe even mecha). In doom 3 it was a mini reference to this angel (for example, a demon named "hell time" resembles ifrit from Masulman mythology) 

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5 hours ago, Uter Lokales said:

I wrote many times that the heavenly Archangels will become part of the finale (Stratton said this in an interview) and we will see heaven itself. 

But you still haven't linked the interviews you're referring to...

 

Btw using different names doesn't necessarily mean they are different classes. Being worshipped as god is something different than being god. Of course I also expect some kind of hierarchy, especially since Doom 2016s lore hints at it.

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6 hours ago, Gez said:

Cherubs were seen in Doom 3, where they were demons. Do not expect real-world mythology to apply directly to Doom Eternal's lore.

 

But as far as we know, the lore of Doom 3 isn't connected to that of 2016/Eternal, unless we see Cherubs (either D3 or different ones) show up.

 

Something i thought of bringing up is how the Summoners' design could resemble an angel in some way, due to the "crown" being its "halo" and the wings and its ability to float.

Sounds far-fetched but if they get a different design in Eternal, i expect some changes to make it more obvious.

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21 hours ago, Uter Lokales said:

Seraphim is the highest angelic rank (the closest to God), and in the game D16 this angel "Seraphim" is one of them

 

Well, I was thinking, it is good that you have ideas but setting them in stone is not always good. I did that with Diablo 3 and the endgame story was very simplified and quite frankly, rubbish. We are now assuming he has wings underneath that red robe, and assuming he is the seraphim. No one at id has said he is anyway, this is our internal speculation. OK crimson is 'fiery' in color, but it isn't literally fire. And also, doom mythos may not necessarily follow Western / Eastern / Christian religions and theologies. There are so many characters and entities in this game now. There are those 3 cultists, these 3 maykrs and the khan maykrs and various maykr types like drones. Then there is a picture of doomslayer with an army of sentinels, dragons, mechanoid giants and what seems like another cultist / priest dude next to him with a scroll. There is a titan ingame and possibly another one (or same one) that is marauding in the streets of Earth in the trailer. There are 'priests', those ?fallen angel? like creatures. And then there is Deag grav and the priests that are mentioned in different sections as either demon priests, dark priests or hell priests. There is that prophecy that states that some dark priest is to be corrupted by the crucible and become some monster. There is Hayden, the Icon of Sin, and the Dark Lord. The Wretch. The Betrayer. And there are Angels in Heaven that is to be separate from Urdak, even though Urdak seems very close to what a Heaven in Doom would look like.

 

So it wouldn't surprise me that the guy in question may be someone entirely different than the Seraph, who is probably another word for the Angels as you said. The only guy so far who speculated on him being the Seraphim in his video *which I now learnt is plural* (which is important as in the ingame files we only get this name, not the singular Seraph) was a famous YTer whose name I forgot (sorry man) who makes regular Doom Eternal videos, speculating on lore and such. But it is in no way official. 

 

In short, I think the 'robed figure' is not a Seraph at all. He looks like a dark / hell priest tbh .... Wretch / Betrayer? I think he is the one narrating with the rip and tear voice too. Not the demon voice which may be the Dark lord or IOS

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1 hour ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

Well, I was thinking, it is good that you have ideas but setting them in stone is not always good. I did that with Diablo 3 and the endgame story was very simplified and quite frankly, rubbish. We are now assuming he has wings underneath that red robe, and assuming he is the seraphim. No one at id has said he is anyway, this is our internal speculation. OK crimson is 'fiery' in color, but it isn't literally fire. And also, doom mythos may not necessarily follow Western / Eastern / Christian religions and theologies. There are so many characters and entities in this game now. There are those 3 cultists, these 3 maykrs and the khan maykrs and various maykr types like drones. Then there is a picture of doomslayer with an army of sentinels, dragons, mechanoid giants and what seems like another cultist / priest dude next to him with a scroll. There is a titan ingame and possibly another one (or same one) that is marauding in the streets of Earth in the trailer. There are 'priests', those ?fallen angel? like creatures. And then there is Deag grav and the priests that are mentioned in different sections as either demon priests, dark priests or hell priests. There is that prophecy that states that some dark priest is to be corrupted by the crucible and become some monster. There is Hayden, the Icon of Sin, and the Dark Lord. The Wretch. The Betrayer. And there are Angels in Heaven that is to be separate from Urdak, even though Urdak seems very close to what a Heaven in Doom would look like.

 

So it wouldn't surprise me that the guy in question may be someone entirely different than the Seraph, who is probably another word for the Angels as you said. The only guy so far who speculated on him being the Seraphim in his video *which I now learnt is plural* (which is important as in the ingame files we only get this name, not the singular Seraph) was a famous YTer whose name I forgot (sorry man) who makes regular Doom Eternal videos, speculating on lore and such. But it is in no way official. 

 

In short, I think the 'robed figure' is not a Seraph at all. He looks like a dark / hell priest tbh .... Wretch / Betrayer? I think he is the one narrating with the rip and tear voice too. Not the demon voice which may be the Dark lord or IOS

Actually, seraphim are depicted in scarlet in iconography. And all because they are fiery creatures.  The clothing of the “Seraphim” from D16 is most likely made of “divine” material and is needed to restrain its almost divine power from ordinary creatures.

I want the Seraph from the game to be Jehoel (leader of all seraphim)

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41 minutes ago, Uter Lokales said:

Actually, seraphim are depicted in scarlet in iconography. And all because they are fiery creatures.  The clothing of the “Seraphim” from D16 is most likely made of “divine” material and is needed to restrain its almost divine power from ordinary creatures.

I want the Seraph from the game to be Jehoel (leader of all seraphim)

 

Thats good information. Iirc, in the codex it says the praetor suit was given to him by the wretch and the seraphim bestowed him with superhuman strength and speed/agility. So they must be separate. What i learnt though is that Seraphim is plural, so this may be a leader Seraph who controls his own legion/army, like you say

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13 hours ago, whatup876 said:

But as far as we know, the lore of Doom 3 isn't connected to that of 2016/Eternal

There are several elements from Doom 3 that reappear in Doom 2016. For example, you can find the Soul Cube (but can't take it), as well as an engraving showing the ancient Martian hero using it. Mere Easter eggs or canon connection? That's up to each player to decide for themselves.

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3 hours ago, Gez said:

There are several elements from Doom 3 that reappear in Doom 2016. For example, you can find the Soul Cube (but can't take it), as well as an engraving showing the ancient Martian hero using it. Mere Easter eggs or canon connection? That's up to each player to decide for themselves.

 

I still believe that Doom 3 is actually a prequel about 10 years before the events of Doom 2016.  My head canon says the UAC covered the events up and moved operations from Mars City to their newly developed Argent campus.  Also the Doom marine from Doom 3 will actually become the Doomguy who will be sent to Phobos (KDitD) as one of the DLC prequels for Doom Eternal.  I guess at some point the story goes Army of Darkness and the Doomguy becomes the Doomslayer in the eternal paradox.

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I wonder if they can get away with baby looking demons these days.

Because they could easily establish that they didn't originate from human infants and just look like that, as Hell or Heaven's attempt at mimicking the human form.

I can see Glory Kills making it worse.

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