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Szymanski

New maps - Root of Evil now Beta

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Ohh man, no replies yet? :( Damn, if only I had the time I'd rip them out of your hands instantly and build an entire episode 4 replacement around them! The screenshots look really good. I guess I'm just a sucker for episode 4 levels and these screenshots push all the right buttons for me. I hope you can find someone to help you. Damn, I wish I had more sparetime...

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I'm with Mr. Hansen, big fan of the TFC aesthetic too. I can give them a quick look assuming they aren't terribly long, as that would mean not today nor tomorrow, if you need feedback asap. Also, by the look of the screenshots, they seem to be in vanilla, so do we have to use Chocolate or you're fine with prboom+ or Crispy?

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I hope to have them out in early 2020, I haven't spent much on them in the last six months. They are designed and tested with vanilla specs for HOM/VPO in choco renderlimits, for gameplay testing I use choco and zdoom. Both are around 15mins long on ultra-violence.

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Here's the latest version of Root of Evil, may play closer to Unfair than Funfair on UV. Designed for Vanilla Doom2, no texture packs required. Any feedback appreciated.

 

ROEL006.zip

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so i made a playthrough of your map, i am loading the video and then i will send it to you. Nice map, nice challenge, died many times but i am an average player :)

 

I played it on uv.

 

Audio is terrible and i m not a native speaker so im babbling around almost all the time, sorry for that! Will send link when it's done :)

 

https://youtu.be/kiC9bcvYuus

Edited by Zolgia108

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5 hours ago, Zolgia108 said:

Audio is terrible and i m not a native speaker so im babbling around almost all the time, sorry for that! Will send link when it's done :)

 

https://youtu.be/kiC9bcvYuus

Thanks, video is currently private so I can't view it. I'll try again later

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Played it with GZDoom 4.3.3 on Ultra-Violence, 98% kills 67% items 62% secrets.

 

I mean, it looks awesome and it feels like a classic map but with a great approach to details. They don't get in your way and are really done in an interesting way, usually involving smart geometry planning and execution, and clever architecture in general. The E4 visuals with the orange skies are always a strong base theme for a map and certainly the map capitalized on it, and felt really strong in that aspect. Lighting was also well-done made, pleasing to the eye with a good contrast here and there, depending whether you were indoors or out. Gameplay was also quite satisfying here, it felt fluent and kept me engaged most of the time with some nice usage of the scenery as vantage points for the opposition and the always fun small arena fights. The nonlinear progression approach was a nice touch and there was a lot to explore in terms of items and secrets, which I ended up not finding them all.

I only have two small suggestions that I remember thinking could be maybe taken into consideration:

Spoiler

 

* I thought the lone Archvile guarding the Plasma Gun near the blue key area was redundant. It didn't really offer any tactical value and was an easy kill. Maybe simply removing him or revising that trap so it triggers after picking up the goodies inside. That way the player would actually be cornered inside the room rather than just sniping it from outside safely.

 

* The second Cyberdemon fight was great but I felt like he could use a tiny bit more help from additional ledge snipers. I remember only two Revenants, a Mancubi and a couple of Imps and they didn't put enough pressure on me to be effective. Maybe just in Ultra-Violence adding just a tiny bit more and using the 4th ledge that was left unused.

 

 

I'll probably try to play the map again, maybe I would try going for 100% and get a closer look at things after my first playthrough. It's a great map and I really enjoyed it. Sorry if I didn't have anything negative to say.

 

Also, this detailing was awesome:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20200606_001519.png

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Sry m8 i hought that i could send a private video, i didnt want to make it public, mostly because its shitty ^^

But here it is just so you can see how an average player plays your map :)

Sorry again both for my "english" and for the audio, i recorder without headphones

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Wait, how'd I miss this? I lurked your DW profile and only saw this thread last week. An hour ago I Twitch streamed two runs:

 

 

First run is HMP visiting the blue key area then red (and I corrected my corrupt mouselook ways.) Second run is UV run going red then blue. Gametime for both was about 25min. I had some commentary during the stream but afterwards I realized my webcam mic was silently disabled because Windows 10 privacy settings are a pile of makeshift shit.

 

If you see this comment after Aug 23 the video will be gone from Twitch but I have an 8gb .mp4 I can upload to YouTube.

 

Bullet point things:

  • Same as Crudreams MAP11, awesome use of varying skyheights to make the whole space feel more 3D.
  • The final fight floating cubes = very cool.
  • The non-linear choices are mostly balance really well. I did find the first run easier since the RL picked up from the blue key area provided excess ammo for the east.
  • Not a big fan with maps that have alert enemies immediately on level load. A blood floor-raise trigger could be added when stepping off the white teleport pad?
  • Same as the earlier comment about the blue key area's first archvile, this arachnotron is easy to pick off with the bars still closed. Maybe raise it out of the blood after the bars have opened?
    • roel-anach.png.9773e93be2d08644b12af5288a10adcd.png
  • The BFALL1 steps leading to the blue key could use Y-alignments to avoid repeating patterns.
  • I got caught up in alcoves nestled around the north-east fast-moving platform. I suppose that was intentional and I am an idiot for trying to make that a close-proximity fight.
  • Thick marble pillars provide really easy cover for the red key cyberdemon. Is there a way to force the player to approach that fight from the opposing ledge (with the pillar-raising switch)?
  • The cut marble block secrets could use a slight lighting shift to make the geometry difference more apparent? Especially for vanilla 320x200 & 640x400 software renderers where the seams won't be as obvious.
  • East area has a misplaced texture that should be WOODMET1.
    • roel-texture.png.452fa0c34938a423d94010ea145c007c.png
  • The exit cyberdemon can also be partially cheesed with CG & SSG from the side tunnel/window although there is limited bullets/shells at this point so it's probably not a concern. I agree on UV this fight could use more projectile enemies from the ledges but it's always a balance of trying to avoid in-fighting.
  • Is the exit finished?
    • The switch lacks an exit sign indicator.
    • There is health atop of the switch but there isn't a subsequent fight to load up for.
    • The last fight and exit have a lock-in. e.g., in my second run there were 4 enemies left but I couldn't return to earlier in the map to finish 100% kills & secrets. The exit teleporter could return the player to the room before they ascend the platform to that last fight?

All in, great map especially considering it targets doom2.exe.

Edited by Afterglow : Add BFALL1 suggestion.

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Also some suggestions for release:

  1. Add a new custom MIDI so the player doesn't get D_RUNNIN'd. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Adding_custom_music#Finding_MIDI_files has a bunch of resources to trawl through. (I personally -nomusic and play actual recordings.)
  2. I don't think it's absolutely required but the RSKY1 patch would usually be wrapped by PP_START & PP_END marker lumps.
  3. Add a ZMAPINFO lump with the compatmode setting to ensure doom2.exe gameplay in ZDoom ports. i.e., prevent feedback like "this level is broken after I hit the jump key".
defaultmap {
    NoCrouch
    NoJump
    compatmode = 2
}


map MAP01 "Root of Evil"
{
    cluster = 5
    levelnum = 1
    music = D_RUNNIN
    par = 900
    sky1 = "SKY1"
    titlepatch = CWILV00
}


cluster 5
{
    flat = FLOOR7_2
    music = D_READ_M
    exittext = "The End."
}

 

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On 8/10/2020 at 2:11 AM, Afterglow said:

The switch lacks an exit sign indicator.

Doom only has the Tech style exit sign, which doesn't really fit the style. The only other motif I can think of is the "sky hole" in the floor, would that be ok?

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Wow, this level was quite a ride. This level gave me a false sense of security so I stuck to playing it on UV because D_RUNNIN was playing. I should've known not to judge a level's difficulty by its music, heh! Anyway, here's my notes and feedback about it:

  • The visual detail was stunning. Not only that but it also provided challenging gameplay that kept me on my toes. Confirmed to work smooth in Chocolate Doom (what I played this level in) so bonus points for working within those limits. You can do a lot even when you were just aiming for DOOM2.exe compatibility.
  • Despite the difficulty you were generous with the health given throughout the level to make it more forgiving. Regardless it still manages to be challenging especially during fights.
  • At the beginning I felt really confident but that was slowly disassembled as I worked my way through your level. I noticed towards the middle/end of the map I became extremely cautious and I found myself backtracking to scavenge for items.
  • The secrets (the ones I found anyway) were creative and it was both cool and nice to work for.
  • I thought I heard monsters walking around throughout the entire level (particularly I heard an Arch-vile laugh after I killed the Cyberdemon that was guarding the red key) so if there was nothing about a certain area that screamed "ambush" to me, then I knew to be prepared when I heard those sounds. I'm not sure if that was intentional or not. You may have to move the Arch-vile I mentioned further away so others don't expect it.
  • There were a few vertically misaligned textures near the blue key, inside where the blue armor was. Nothing major.
  • I didn't know the exit switch was an exit switch, so I ended the level sooner than I would've liked.

I also made sure to record a demo in Chocolate Doom of my first attempt for you to analyze how I approached your map (I think I had the demo recording limit disabled, I'll have to check). I'm honestly shocked that I didn't die on my first attempt. The RNG was forgiving to me and I swear there were at least three times where I should've died. All in all, wonderful map to play through. This is one of my favorites for sure and I'll be looking forward to play more from you!

rykerfda.zip

 

Edit: Here's a YouTube link for quick and easy viewing!

 

Edited by UndeadRyker : video added from demo

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3 hours ago, Szymanski said:

Doom only has the Tech style exit sign, which doesn't really fit the style. The only other motif I can think of is the "sky hole" in the floor, would that be ok?

 

Yeah, I suppose the floor sky is how Doom II's hell levels & Ultimate Doom E4 handled that. Many levels still had EXITDOOR as an indicator too?

 

Other ideas:

  1. Draw the word "EXIT" into the floor, lit up but if the player doesn't see it, the word would also show on the automap.
    • roel-exit-automap.jpg.4d18c27a248158b4ff5fd651bec0ba0c.jpg
  2. Sacrilege: add a single patch from OTEX that was designed to mix with doom[2].wad. OEXITC03 fits right in.
    • roel-exit-otex.jpg.e92068acd887e97336584339adfd7d7a.jpg
  3. Make an edit to OTEX's bloodied flesh OEXITA01 or OEXITA02 to either blend with shadow on GSTONE or act as a midtex.
  4. When entering the room, make a crusher kill a Commander Keen thing and replace its death sound with you screaming, "THIS IS THE EXIT!"

 

 

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This is a beautiful map but without a proper midi, unless I was meant to load it alongside AV.wad (idmus25 kinda worked though, but still in much need of a new tune). No bugs, no gameplay flaws on my eyes, sure a few camping moments or neutered mini encounters, the minimal so nothing that I'd personally like to point out as "flawed". It's amazing how you managed to craft the details with much finesse without sacrificing monster pathing for the most part, though since I played on Crispy Doom I don't get visplane crashes or such things even if they were to exist in the map.

 

I shall show you where I saw visual oddities:

 

- Wrong texture here, I think it's on the left way of the first plasma rifle section.

- Misaligned at secret soulsphere.

- Another misaligned.

- Looks like automap may need more cleanup imo.

- Perhaps you could add the correct map title in the automap and tally screen as well.

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