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Dubbagdarrel

Things that mappers do that annoy you.

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I hate when mappers put a shitload of effort into a map and then self deprecate with the title, txt, or overall presentation/publication of it. I guess to make it seem like it didn't take much effort, or they are embarrassed for having spent too much effort on it, I dunno. It's not super common but it's common enough and I wish those folks had more pride in their talents even if it means we have to deal with a King ReOL from time to time.

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You know what annoys me??  Having more than 3 lines ever drawn in a level now that is bullshit!!!

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9 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

For every instance of something somebody has complained about, there may be a mapper who spun that shit into gold. ;-)

 

And there'll also be someone who loves that "shit" pretty much all the time.  Doom contains multitudes.

 

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1 hour ago, DooMAD said:

What an absolute prick you must be.

even more than you can imagine! 'cmon, people, draw those lines, you owe me a new map for each line i added to my sourceport!

 

Spoiler

ok, i think i'm taking this stupidity too far... sorry.

 

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3 hours ago, ketmar said:

even more than you can imagine! 'cmon, people, draw those lines, you owe me a new map for each line i added to my sourceport!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

ok, i think i'm taking this stupidity too far... sorry.

 

LOL!

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26 minutes ago, ketmar said:

ok, i think i'm taking this stupidity too far... sorry.

 

I'll apologise too if it was just an attempt at humour.  Thought you were being serious there.  Sorry.

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10 minutes ago, DooMAD said:

I'll apologise too if it was just an attempt at humour.

i apologise too. sometimes my jokes are way too stupid. and the more stupid they are, the less i can resist the temptation.

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16 minutes ago, ketmar said:

i apologise too. sometimes my jokes are way too stupid. and the more stupid they are, the less i can resist the temptation.


I get lost when we were talking about how the police and the federals were against each others...

Oh, sorry!

Wrong channel!

 

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I'm pleasantly surprised no one mentioned chainsaw-only maps.

 

4 hours ago, Octillion said:

Instant pop-ups.

 

Personally, I don't like them, but I recognize that they have a place. That being said, if you're overly reliant on insta-pop monsters, you need to re-examine the gameplay in your map.

 

 

3 hours ago, DooMAD said:

 

I really hope that's sarcasm.  If it's not, my reply would be that if you weren't so lazy, you'd read the txt doc so you'd know how many maps you're getting.

 

It could just as easily be extended to "I hate it when I finish Map 03 of the 3-map set I downloaded, and Map 04 is 'The Focus!' Sooo lazy!" all the way to "I hate it when I finish Map 28 of the 28-map megawad I downloaded and Map 29 is 'The Living End!' Sooo lazy!"

 

 

3 hours ago, Swalzi said:

We need a mapping regrets thread or things the mapper has learned after the map was released finished to the public. You made a cool map but there's one or few parts that make it suck in the context of the map.

It would be educational and fun if they decide to chip in.

 

That could be intriguing, particularly to hear experienced mappers discuss things they've learned since their first forays into mapping, but it could descend into nitpicking by mappers about small things they would've done differently in hindsight on really good maps. For instance, darkreaver claims to cringe when thinking about Brood of Hatred, which was his first map, and is, I think, still a very, very good, fun map.

 

 

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

For every instance of something somebody has complained about, there may be a mapper who spun that shit into gold. ;-)

 

2 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

And there'll also be someone who loves that "shit" pretty much all the time.  Doom contains multitudes.

 

 

First off, NIH, you should say that there is almost certainly a mapper that has spun it into gold, and that map is probably the reason why more mappers do it. ("Oh, but Mapper X did that on Map Y and it was AWESOME!!!")

 

And Cappelan is right, there is certain to be someone who loves whatever thing you think is atrocious. Even terrywads. There are people who make them, so there must be people who enjoy them in some way.

 

 

@Spectre01

I loved it! That bingo board of map criticisms made me laugh. Also, I just noticed you avoided putting anything in there about Brutal Doom. Well played.

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I don't like it when you find a key first and then end up looking everywhere for that damned key door. Also stupid ambushes where you get shut in a small room and the bars take forever to lower and are still lowering once all enemies have been killed in that room and that will have to be one of the worst mapping habits ever. I also did that in MAP13 of WOS, but the bars don't take long to lower. And megawads that use the same Duke Nukem 3D (Gut Wrencher, Plasma) or ROTT music plus that Sacred Grove song from Hexen or Heretic E1M9. I don't mind the songs from these games, but choices are never varied enough. And lastly, ambushes with hitscanners like shotgun or chaingun guys as much as I hate them I also love that challenge.

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I don't like those Archviles constantly teleporting in tight spaces that you have in Plutonia. They annoy me greatly and I believe there are better ways to use the teleporting monsters in a map.

But I also agree with the people saying topics like this shouldn't be taken too seriously when it comes to making maps.

My philosophy when creating a map (or anything really) is to put what I like and avoiding what I don't like. What others think shouldn't affect too much in my decisions, after all I am the one making the map, not them. Don't confuse this with not being able to take criticism by the way. This is a reminder that you as a mapper have your own wants and needs and you shouldn't ignore those to appease others.

You (the reader, not necessarily the original poster) have the option of ignoring what I say and what others criticizing this topic's existence and purpose said and keep appeasing to the lowest common denominator though. That's your choice.

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I hate when you are all happy and cheerful like ''OH, Eviternity, let's try it... cool OTEX is soo beautiful... ohh, amazing levels, now we go all tech base... blast! new cyber barons... and now its all freeze...soou beauty is OTEX indeed... oh this arena levels is a little too hard, but i managed to get past it... oh cool secret exit... let's see whats ahead''
and then...

SKILLSAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW MAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!! (Read with loud creepy voice)

Please, bro!
Stop raping my ass!

Same happened with TNT: Revilution...
''Amazing levels, totally TNT, all moody and creepy... amazing new wormhole with excellent music... Oh gigantic portal levels after a though fight with Cybers...''

and then...

 

SKILLSAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW (type?) MAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!

 

No, seriously, i hate this kind of heavy ramp-up in the difficult level.
Its goes from a moody and challenging experience to a boring rince and repeat kind of game until you, miracously, found the (right) way to bypass that map. Its totally breaks the inmersion.
 

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Forced arena fights, where you have to wait a timer so you can leave the room. If a player wants to get out of an arena, it's probably because it's not fun. Being able to leave or enter a room should always be an option, and those who cheese: it's their choice, not bad design; as long as the designer is not forcing them to cheese by granting no other advantageous options for the player. There are players who will wholeheartedly stay in a dangerous room and attempt to complete it without running away, as long as it's fun.

 

Difficulty build-up. Most megawads do it, and I find it highly unnecessary to hold yourself back on providing a fun, challenging fight, just because it's an early map slot. Feels like a waste of a design for me: to dump only zombiemen and a few imps, and granting the player only the pistol to finish them off, when you could be dodging Revenant missiles and Mancubi fireballs already... It's understandable for original games, but for mapsets, I find it unnecessary. Most people playing the megawad have already played a thousand different mapsets before, or at least Doom 1 and 2. It's not like it's their first introduction to Doom. But I guess I'm just weird.

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Juza said:

Difficulty build-up. Most megawads do it, and I find it highly unnecessary to hold yourself back on providing a fun, challenging fight, just because it's an early map slot. Feels like a waste of a design for me: to dump only zombiemen and a few imps, and granting the player only the pistol to finish them off, when you could be dodging Revenant missiles and Mancubi fireballs already... It's understandable for original games, but for mapsets, I find it unnecessary. Most people playing the megawad have already played a thousand different mapsets before, or at least Doom 1 and 2. It's not like it's their first introduction to Doom. But I guess I'm just weird.

 

This is a really good example of how some people like things that others dislike, because while I totally understand your POV and the logic behind it, I am on the opposite side of this divide.  I love me some difficulty build up in a megawad, because I don't want to play 30 maps that are all very similar in terms of difficulty and allowed monster mix.

 

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Can definitely relate to most of those @Bauul ! Especially the latter one. Was wondering if anyone else was annoyed at having too much ammo laying around while not being able to pick it up, or if it was just me, because I'm so impatient. Such tease.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bauul said:

 

  1. Many players are far more unobservant than you think they'll be.  Make stuff more obvious than you think you'll need to.  Use enemies to draw people's attention to what they're meant to look at.

 

This is one of the biggest things I'm working on. I saw Castle discuss it in his video on level design while going through his map Redemption of The Slain. It made an impression, because I've seen players walk right past keys in my maps, even though their POV was on the item, but somehow it didn't register. I've seen players who never look out windows. I've seen them give important areas the most cursory inspection, often looking in only one direction and for some reason never looking in the direction they need to. Then again, I have FDAs by super-skilled players who do everything perfectly and never miss anything except an occasional secret. I say this not to insult players who make the mistakes noted above. Many players are just hellbent on getting through a map as rapidly as possible. Obviously, I have to gear my mapping more to their needs and approach. Some people call that hand-holding, but IMO the object of the exercise is to give players the most satisfying possible experience, and if a player is wandering around lost because you didn't focus enough on important items or paths, they are probably not satisfied. 

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14 minutes ago, Juza said:

Can definitely relate to most of those @Bauul ! Especially the latter one. Was wondering if anyone else was annoyed at having too much ammo laying around while not being able to pick it up, or if it was just me, because I'm so impatient. Such tease.

 

That bugs me, too. It's one reason I put so many Backpacks in my maps. I like to work with relatively high monster density, so players will need a lot of ammo to handle the main battles. I prefer to give players what they need to deal with the situation and then try to kill them with the fight. But yes, few things annoy me more than having no Backpack and accidentally stepping on a shell box when I already have over 40 rounds.

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5 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

 

 

at least have the decency to cite the original author ey

 

 

 

 

my favorite description for threads like this is "people trying to infect each other with their pet hates." thankfully the creation of doom content is almost entirely detached from any sort of economic incentive, meaning you're free to aim as far outside the bell curve of public opinion as you wish with no real consequence.

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@Ribbiks I saw the image in a discord server and thought it was amusing and somewhat relevant to the thread. Wasn't aware of the source nor intending to claim it as original content.

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Why the "Popular now" thing is allowed outside of actual WADs and mods section is out of my understanding...

Edit: I take that back anyways...

Edited by Cacodemon345

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7 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

DEEVhbzV0AANbQ6.jpg:large

Not sure what the message of this image is supposed to be, but many of these sound perfectly reasonable.

 

It seems like, in threads such as this, people will always pour out of the woodwork to explain how, ACTUALLY, anything widely-considered shitty could actually be good. Well my stance is, sometimes things are just shitty and that's that. 

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3 hours ago, Ribbiks said:

my favorite description for threads like this is "people trying to infect each other with their pet hates."

isn't this is what all forums were created for?

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