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Dubbagdarrel

Things that mappers do that annoy you.

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You're having a good time playing a WAD, everything's fine and this might be one of the best WADS you ever played. But then boom, there it is, the thing that makes you IDCLEV or just quit the game. My question is, what are somethings that mappers might do that kills a WAD automatically for you? Me, it's huge maze like levels with to many choices. I prefer my doom maps to be more linear, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but for me, I like to make constant progress and know where im going to go at all times. Nothing frustrates me more than walking around a level for 20 minutes with nothing going on because there's no idea where to go next, and so many paths that finding the right one is a struggle. I wanna shoot shit and have action!  If I wanted a maze I'd play one in the newspaper lol.

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exit switch with the next map being "underhalls". mappers are sooo lazy, can't they give me more new maps to play?!

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So-called 'Action Starts', ie putting the player under attack right at the start of a level. I like to 'find my feet' by having a look around and assessing the terrain before any heavy stuff begins. If you're playing in PRBoom+ or GLBoom+ this also makes it difficult or impossible to save at the start, meaning that if you get killed, you will have to replay some or all of the previous level.

 

No armour anywhere near the start of a level.

 

Powerups left in front of switches, where I have no option but to pick them up even if they're not needed. People still do this when creating maps today, even though it has been recognized as a notoriously senseless and unnecessary feature for years and years. Why???

 

Stupid puzzles - you're locked in a room, and the mapper thinks it's an interesting idea to leave you scratching your head about how to get out. Similarly, levels which succeed in creating the mother of all anticlimaxes by deliberately making the route to the exit unclear, after you've killed all the monsters. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Damaging F***ing Floors: "Yes, I want you to explore my map, but I don't really want you to explore my map, because I'm going to make it as unpleasant and rushed an experience as possible by putting in all this bloody lava, nukage or whatever".

 

Wads which use ambushes, and particularly teleport ambushes, as the mainstay of their gameplay.

 

Overuse of Archviles.

 

Icon Of Sin in the final level of a Doom II megawad. The game deserves better, but one problem is that when a mapper decides to opt for an alternative, he or she often ends up trying too hard, and devises something even worse. Hello Valiant and Winter's Fury.

 

 

Er, that's it for now. But an honourable mention here for Hellbound, a top class megawad which succeeds in avoiding the majority of these phenomena, and demonstrates that it can be done without making the gameplay boring or too easy.

 

 

Edited by Summer Deep : Spelling

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4 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

These threads are not useful for mappers. Just pointing that out in case anyone believes they can mine them for useful wisdom.

Heh, I thought you would somehow agree with me point (although I shouldn't put that in this thread since it's not related in a way), but other than that, I do agree this and this type of thread are very unlikely to be useful.

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3 hours ago, seed said:

I think we have too much negativity here as of late.

 

 

3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

These threads are not useful for mappers (except maybe for ideas to subvert). Just pointing that out in case anyone is tempted into mining them for practical wisdom.

Wasn't really trying to be negative, more just wondering what kinds of things I can avoid in future projects that I may not have thought of.

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"What kind of threads do you hate?"

Answer: Threads asking people what do they HATE.

Edit: Now better.

Edited by Loud Silence

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31 minutes ago, ketmar said:

exit switch with the next map being "underhalls". mappers are sooo lazy, can't they give me more new maps to play?!

 

I really hope that's sarcasm.  If it's not, my reply would be that if you weren't so lazy, you'd read the txt doc so you'd know how many maps you're getting.

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8 minutes ago, DooMAD said:

I really hope that's sarcasm.

why, i am dead serious! what is so hard in drawing a map? it is just a bunch of lines! writing text file instead of drawing some more lines is not an excuse! ok, text file has lines too, but they are not the right ones.

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I actually find the loving bashing of Doom or Doom maps quite enjoyable. Asking what we hate about the game or weapons or maps has provided quite a number of insightful comments that pointed out things I never critically assessed before.

 

And, obviously, "hate" is just a placeholder for "don't like". I wouldn't get hung up on that word.

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9 minutes ago, ketmar said:

why, i am dead serious! what is so hard in drawing a map? it is just a bunch of lines! writing text file instead of drawing some more lines is not an excuse!

 

The point isn't how easy or hard it is to draw a map, but how your post smacks of entitlement and makes you sound like a spoiled child.  

 

And if the point was how easy or hard it is to draw a map, the response would be that it's still considerably less effort for you to download and run more WADs than it is for others to create them.  It's not like this is a service you're paying for.  You're literally getting free stuff and still finding a way to bitch about not having enough?  And you genuinely don't see a problem with that attitude?  What an absolute prick you must be.

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3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

 

The issue is that the list of True Don'ts -- things you should truly avoid in nearly all cases -- is generally tight. And most are so trivial as to not warrant mention in threads like these (e.g. "Don't make a terrywad!"). 

 

So threads like these end up dominated by a milder range of things that might annoy certain players but not all, and moreover things that can be botched, but also excelled at. Maps full of damaging floors? Sure, that can be annoying; there are also plenty of pretty good maps that have done it. Instant pop-ups? Can be irritating, can be really useful. SSG before SG? Seems very personal. What constitutes overuse of archviles? Maybe you draw the line differently than someone else. Some people love puzzles, some people hate them. Not enough rockets? Plenty of exquisite maps have none or few. (I don't mean to single those posters out -- just grabbing examples from here.)

 

To follow the advice in such threads to the extreme would be to obliterate the range of possibilities down to a milquetoast husk that will offend no one but also please no one. 

 

Look at last year's Cacos for example, or whatever your favorite wads are if Caco stuff isn't your cup of tea. Upon fine inspection, anyone will find lots of stuff that might make a Don't thread. It's noise, honestly. 

 

Good mapping is not done strictly by using 'good' tropes and avoiding 'bad' ones. It's a far more nuanced thing than most responses like these will touch on. 


 

Well, the thing is I also made this post like 10 years ago under a different name for the same reason. And people had alot of good points that I took into consideration. Not to mention that it was a very popoular thread that people really liked back then. I guess times have changed. One thing I have noticed is that Doomworld is ALOT less toxic than it used to be. So coming from those times I guess I should get with the times as well. I'm kind of a hot headed person and tend to spit things out with a very harsh tone without meaning to and for that I apologize if putting the word "Hate" in the original title was too harsh. Or if the tone of this post was too harsh as well.

Edited by Dubbagdarrel

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Well.... This has certainly went into a completely different route than I imagined. I thought this was just another topic for everyone to say their subjective views and not a matter of negativity that affects mappers. But yeah, I agree that "Annoy" is a more appropriate word than "Hate" here.

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^ Yes, though I suppose this site is one where the views of mappers predominate over those of straightforward gamers, so it's maybe not surprising that a measure of prickliness should be apparent.

 

I do remember a very similar thread from a couple of years back, in which everyone seemed a whole lot more laid-back about these matters. Maybe the title was worded a little less provocatively...

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1 hour ago, Demon of the Well said:

Perhaps my least favorite kind of map is one that is consciously made in deference to all the posts we'll see in this thread.

For every instance of something somebody has complained about, there may be a mapper who spun that shit into gold. ;-)

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