The Unity Port Thread - PS/Xbox/Switch/IOS/Android

[Chip]

19 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You've forgotten the textures and music. Though probably not as bad as Scythe X.

change textures and music, BOOM! it works!

[Jayextee]

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

change textures and music, BOOM! it works!

Oh, yeah. Just hit the 'change textures' and 'change music' buttons in SLADE and then apparently an explosion. I can't believe that wasn't already suggested. Sounds legit, if slightly dangerous.

[Redneckerz]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:23 PM, LiT_gam3r said:

by the end of the year, there will be like 50 add-ons. I'm so psyched for what comes next! hopefully Scythe. 

I very much doubt that given Scythe's author list.

 

Looking at past add-ons, some things stick out:

A significant portion of the add-ons concerns works that have been official in some way, shape or form, like SIGIL or No Rest for the Living.

The other significant portion that is/was not official usually concerns relatively recent WAD sets, with the earliest to date being Double Impact from 2011.

 

Therefore, one can reasonably assume (for now) that for new add-ons that aren't already official in some way, shape or form the team looks at vanilla WADS from 2010 till now. This makes sense since older WADS, like Scythe, contain multiple authors that either are retired, are deceased, or cannot be contacted anymore by any currently known address.

 

As such, you can employ a search based on the Cacowards and other significant Vanilla megawads from the last 10 years to figure out which stand out examples are more inclinced to be elligible for inclusion than Scythe.*

 

*Ofcourse this assumes that new add-ons follow the parameters set above, which is more speculative than factual. Nothing's stopping them from including a pre-2010 work that isn't already official in some way, shape or form.

 

I'd love Ancient Aliens or Valiant to be included but these need Boom or MBF compatible ports, respectively.

 

So my suggestion for inclusion would be 2011's Reverie, since that's a Vanilla megawad. (And retroactively holds up to the speculative parameters explained above). Its also a damn fine megawad, and predecessor Doom Core (Which had a 2019 anniversary edition as Doom Core Delta) and successor Eternally Yours are also Vanilla Doom compatible.

 

Another (possible) inclusion could be Epic 2 but i am not sure how the modified graphics or custom music will work out or if they are compatible. Or perhaps TNT Revilution?

 

There is some epic quality Vanilla Doom stuff from the past 10 years, so i'd say Bethesda/Sponge have the luxury of picking the finest works. :)

2 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

change textures and music, BOOM! it works!

Boom's a source port, not a magical button that Doom authors have yet to discover.

 

I have to assume you attempted a joke here but it crash landed on Phobos.

 

An Imp awaits you and you will have to accept his fireball as a result of this.

[Chip]

@Redneckerz no joke, I was for real. the Scythe authors seem to be in contact, and how difficult would it be to change some textures and some songs? 

 

also, why do they have to ask everybody to do something? I get that they don't want to steal, but who wouldn't want their WAD (which they've already posted) as an official add-on? Bethesda should post something to the modding community that as soon as they post their WAD, Bethesda has the rights to them. 

 

I'm also not looking to argue, as I know some of you that are reading this want to jump at me, but please don't. This is just an opinion.

[Redneckerz]

2 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@Redneckerz no joke, I was for real. the Scythe authors seem to be in contact,

That's not what Edward's post says.

2 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

and how difficult would it be to change some textures and some songs? 

• Textures = would mean either a rework to not be infringing or a new asset
• Songs = Well you gotta make a new song then, right? Something that will inevitably have to envoke a similar mood

This means the original authors either need to rework some of their stuff or Bethesda/someone else has to hire someone to do this. I know AlexMax did some stuff to the engine, so its not completely out of the realm to consider, but its not a one snap button cal.

 

2 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

also, why do they have to ask everybody to do something? I get that they don't want to steal, but who wouldn't want their WAD (which they've already posted) as an official add-on?

Because getting this stuff featured in the kind of official manner Bethesda wants to on consoles requires clarity and permissions to have that worked featured on console. Its not like with homebrew where you simply load the WAD up: Consoles have verification processes where stuff like this comes into play.

 

Its not a case of that the author does not want to, but rather a case of getting the authors brought in to supply their work for these verification processes. Atleast, that's how i assume things would work, correct me if wrong.

2 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

Bethesda should post something to the modding community that as soon as they post their WAD, Bethesda has the rights to them. 

!!!

 

Why would you want to do that? Suppose Jimmy makes an epic new megawad and he posts the final release here. You are saying that if that happens, Bethesda should be able to automatically have the rights to that and Jimmy is left with.... what, exactly? The honor that his work got featured without any hearsay?

 

I doubt many would accept that kind of offer - Especially if they need to retool some assets from said Bethesda before it can be included.

[Chip]

@Redneckerz I said I don't want to argue it, but I guess I will... ish. Jimmy doesn't get money anyway for posting that WAD here. what's the difference if Bethesda just adds it to the game for free. maybe he could be found and become a game developer at a company. sorry this is short, I'm in a rush. 

[Redneckerz]

Just now, LiT_gam3r said:

@Redneckerz I said I don't want to argue it, but I guess I will... ish.

*Sigh*. You present an opinion. I am not jumping on you, but addressing the points you raised. I am not calling out your opinion as ridiculous but i discuss it in a meaningful way.

 

If you don't want to have that opinion discussed, then what response can be given besides none at all? That's essentially dropping a take and then asking the audience to not address it in any meaningful way.

Just now, LiT_gam3r said:

Jimmy doesn't get money anyway for posting that WAD here. what's the difference if Bethesda just adds it to the game for free. maybe he could be found and become a game developer at a company. sorry this is short,

Its not about that whatsoever. I suggest you re-read my response and formulate either an actual addressation to it or, you can also not argue it, since that was what you wanted in the first place it seems :S

 

[Gez]

42 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Another (possible) inclusion could be Epic 2 but i am not sure how the modified graphics

The entire Egyptian theme is carried by the Exhumed textures. They are too many to be replaced by new graphics, and too important to the theme to be replaced by STARTAN.

42 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

or custom music

I suppose Bethesda could grant the okay for the Daggerfall track. But Blood, Final Fantasy IX, Chrono Trigger, Duke Nukem 3D, forget it.

[ZeroTheEro]

I'm baffled on the shortsightedness you have to be honest.

50 WADs by the end of the year is frankly unrealistic: considering their one-around-a-month-release schedule at best there'd be less than 13 by the end of the year. They don't pick WADs willy-nilly, and any changes to textures and music to the WADs they do pick isn't done by Beth themselves, it needed to be done by the one who made those textures and music. And everyone would have to get credit so everyone gets it fair and square.

 

[P41R47]

On 6/25/2020 at 4:23 PM, LiT_gam3r said:

by the end of the year, there will be like 50 add-ons.

 

On 6/25/2020 at 6:26 PM, LiT_gam3r said:

I was just saying that there will be more WADs in the future and how fun some WADs will be. 50 was just a hyperbole. 

He already explained that it was more an expression of overjoy than an actual fact, @ZeroTheEro. I'm not defending him or criticizing you, but well, i think that it was clear and there is no need to continue with it.

-----------------------------------------------

Is interesting to bring on that, aside from wads that use music from other games and thats a big NO, there are just a few megawads with properly new music.
The add-ons that were selected by now, Double Impact has a few of re-used tracks from the original games, and a few new, but one of those, was a mash-up of e1m8 and PsxDoom title track, and it has to be changed/reworked for inclusion as add-on.
Nor NEIS nor Deathless have custom music, so they didn't change anything on the music aspect.
BTSX has a lot of custom music made specifically for the set of maps.

And so this brings my question
if someone is granted the possibility to have their work selected as a candidate for new add-on, but some maps use music from other games, what are few possible options?
 

1-Taking off the track that is on infringement and leaving just the original map track.

2-Select a similar track from the pool of incredible composers we have in the community: Paul Corfiatis, Stewboy, Eris Falling, Viscra Maelstron, Bucket, Dial-Up for Murder, Alfonzo, Primeval, etc. Along with the tracks made by Mark Klem, David Shaw, Jeremy Doyle for different projects all these years. BUT that comes with the inclusion of that composer to the contract, right?
3- Select a new music track that has the proper licence of free use. And it has to be an original composition, as there is a lot of midi reditions of popular songs that are free, but thats not posible in legal terms, i think, right?
4-made a new music track.

@Gez made a neat page on the wiki about Pwads with custom soundtrack, and looking at it, from the time since the first pwads were made, the community uses tracks from other games or previously released pwads almost all the time.
Just a few projects had original music by that time, like memento Mori 1&2, Requiem, Icarus, Eternal Doom, The Talosian Incident, Strain, 2002-ADO... and a few more, maybe?
And those projects, also use textures from other games... so from the Top 100, is there a possible megawad candidate to inclusion as an add-on to this official port?
Right now... only one that seems to fit the requirements for me is Icarus: Alien Vanguard, and some of it contributors worked previously on TNT: Evilution, but thats not taked on consideration, right?

Edited June 26, 2020 by P41R47

[Chip]

@Redneckerz I'm confused about your response. I thought you were saying that Jimmy gets no profit on his creation. I'm saying that I didn't want to argue as well, and when I see that somebody combats my opinion with "fact". I guess I just have to be right, even when I'm wrong. I'm sorry. 

[Redneckerz]

46 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@Redneckerz I'm confused about your response. I thought you were saying that Jimmy gets no profit on his creation.

I am saying you need to re-read my post when you aren't in a rush anymore.

46 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

 I'm saying that I didn't want to argue as well, and when I see that somebody combats my opinion with "fact". I guess I just have to be right, even when I'm wrong. I'm sorry. 

So you present a opinion/take and then don't want any discussion on said opinion/take.

 

Okay, noted.

[whatup876]

Impressive and nice that BTSX got in.

I think STARTAN at this point is more than just a meme: like how Mario and Sonic have props and decorations in their levels/worlds tied to their identity, Doom has textures/props that are also part of its identity. Like the themes of Doom and all.

Would be cool for TNT Revilution to get in but custom enemies can be a problem because of Dehacked and the use of the DN3D turret sprites i think. (but that IOS boss fight and level is so amazing)

The unused enemy rotations being used seems good and i wonder if that sprite fix mod being added and maybe Doomguy's shock face being fixed was considered, (imagine the PS1 exploding head animation being added, too much of a dream tho)

 

With the difficulty of some Wads being added, i thought spiritual successors would have been an half good idea.

A problem with replacing textures and songs is if they're not interesting enough too i guess.

Also, it sucks what happened to Prey as a whole.

[Faceman2000]

The BTSX addon announcement on Bethesda’s website mentioned this isn’t the last of BTSX we’ll be seeing on the Unity ports... so it sounds like we may be getting Episode 2 and maybe even 3 in the next little while, which’d be freaking awesome.

[sponge]

We've definitely been erring toward more recent WADs, since people are more likely to be around and easily contactable, and because it's likely that players will be less familiar with a lot of the newer stuff coming out. I hadn't heard of or played almost all of the mods we chose before starting this process, and I'm someone who has been community adjacent for a while. Stuff like Simon's Destiny and Adventures of Square rightly get a lot of "mainstream" attention, but people don't talk enough about the more traditional Doom stuff. Newer releases are also generally better at documenting sources for assets, and not using stuff from other games (see pretty much the entire soundtrack to Hell Revealed)

 

In general the recency bias is also because the quality bar has only gone up over the years. To me, the design lessons employed in Back to Saturn X shows a mastery over level design that just isn't present in a lot of the id levels. 25 years of hindsight definitely helps, but there is heaps of talent on that team.

[Chip]

I can't wait to see the great WADs coming in the future. I'm sure ID and Bethesda have a lot of good "games" up their sleeves. so exciting!

[Redneckerz]

12 hours ago, sponge said:

We've definitely been erring toward more recent WADs, since people are more likely to be around and easily contactable, and because it's likely that players will be less familiar with a lot of the newer stuff coming out. I hadn't heard of or played almost all of the mods we chose before starting this process, and I'm someone who has been community adjacent for a while. Stuff like Simon's Destiny and Adventures of Square rightly get a lot of "mainstream" attention, but people don't talk enough about the more traditional Doom stuff. Newer releases are also generally better at documenting sources for assets, and not using stuff from other games (see pretty much the entire soundtrack to Hell Revealed)

 

In general the recency bias is also because the quality bar has only gone up over the years. To me, the design lessons employed in Back to Saturn X shows a mastery over level design that just isn't present in a lot of the id levels. 25 years of hindsight definitely helps, but there is heaps of talent on that team.

The luxury of having to pick on what quality wad you want to select. I don't think this bias is any negative in nature, it is what you say: In terms of vanilla mapping, the quality has gone up considerably, and its easily commercial grade levels that get included for free.

 

If only Knee Deep in KDiZD was a complete release, that would also be an instant entry, i reckon :P Thanks for the additional info Sponge!

[Jayextee]

15 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

If only Knee Deep in KDiZD was a complete release, that would also be an instant entry, i reckon

Except for the part where it's Knee Deep In [non-vanilla sourceport].

[Gez]

"Knee-Deep in KDIZD" was a (short-lived) attempt by Esselfortium to recreate the maps from Knee-Deep in ZDoom in vanilla (+DEHACKED), mostly using a lot of custom textures to replicate visuals achieved initially with ZDoom effects.

[Redneckerz]

7 minutes ago, Gez said:

"Knee-Deep in KDIZD" was a (short-lived) attempt by Esselfortium to recreate the maps from Knee-Deep in ZDoom in vanilla (+DEHACKED), mostly using a lot of custom textures to replicate visuals achieved initially with ZDoom effects.

And it looked so good. A lot of Essel Magik in that one, but that was before BTSX.

 

It did gave rise to ChocoRenderLimits however, so that's its legacy :)

[Doomkid]

On 6/26/2020 at 10:11 PM, ZeroTheEro said:

I just realized BTSX also uses full sprite rotations for the zombies and imps.

pretty neat but damn, it would be neat for that to be included in other addons and vanilla as well.

Since various components of the iwads have been edited anyway (medikits, wolf stuff, etc), at this point I'd be glad if they went the whole hog and implemented the full Zombie, Shotgunner and Player rotation sprites in. It would be an excellent fix and since there's already a bunch of changes from the "real" 1.9 iwads anyway, it would only serve to make the game better.

[sponge]

Just popping in to mention a minor update to BTSX was pushed out. The black texture on MAP02 was fixed, and the green health packs were converted to the new palette properly. You can just redownload the WAD from the Add-Ons menu to get the changes, there's no auto-update or anything like that built in.

[chemo]

On 6/29/2020 at 3:42 PM, sponge said:

there's no auto-update or anything like that built in.

Do you think this may be implemented in the future in case other WADs get updates?

[Chip]

17 minutes ago, chemo said:

Do you think this may be implemented in the future in case other WADs get updates?

It most likely will be. But I'm sure there won't be many updates. Bethesda probably goes through these WADs like crazy, and BTSX was just really small stuff, that in the end, they decided to implement.

[AmethystViper]

@sponge Is there any chance that this issue with the PC version of these Classic ports can be looked into? There's an odd bug where, if you move the cursor on the "sign up for bethesda.net/slayer's club" banner within the rebinding menu with a controller, the game won't let you move the cursor anywhere else unless you use the mouse to get you out the bug.

Edited July 12, 2020 by AmethystViper : Typo

[Chip]

Not trying to promote my content, but for fun, you can use this! 

 

[Mr. Death]

Hi,

I created a Doomworld account just to ask this specific question. I couldn't find any other posts where it was mentioned before, but I might just have missed them.

I wanted to direct this specifically to sponge, since I see that he's an id developer and that he posts/responds here regularly.

Will the frame-pacing issues with these new ports of Doom & Doom II ever be fixed? To me it's very obvious and distracting, and it actually makes targeting enemies and connecting with shots much more difficult. Just start up any level and slowly turn in a circle, and you can clearly see the stutter/hitching occur in perfect intervals...

I don't want to sound overly negative regarding these new ports, because they're truly excellent in pretty much every other way. I really appreciate all the extra work/time that the developers have put into these, and if this issue was fixed they would very clearly be the best console versions of Doom IMO.

Thanks!

[ZeroTheEro]

I believe that's in the works.

[Chip]

@Mr. Death since you're new, you might not know about this feature, but you can privately message Sponge and ask him the question. He might not notice the post you made, but if you privately message him, he will definitely notice.

[Edward850]

@Mr. Death your question isn't really answerable. Frame pacing is an intrinsic problem with operating frequency and upkeep, not some boolean that changes frame pacing from broken to fixed. And it's not like anybody wants such a problem to be there in the first place.

I couldn't even hazard a guess about what Sponge would even be looking for with such an issue. Is it even a Unity problem or an issue with Doom's 35hz key frame timer that isn't divisible by 60? Or perhaps both? And if so, why?