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Eurisko

SIGIL ,Final Doom and more now available for DOOM console ports.

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12 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

- Lunar Catastophe

- Baculus

- Sinergy

 

These contain many instances of tutti-frutti. And who knows if they have Medusa effects.

 

The problem with many limit-removing maps is they were obviously tested only in PrBoom(-Plus) with -complevel 2|3|4 and higher source ports, and no one bothered to test them with a pure vanilla engine with limits increased, such as Doom+ / Doom2+, Strawberry Doom or Crispy Doom 1.0 (yes, that version), so expect certain visual glitches.

Edited by Diabolución

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9 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

What a misleading name then! (You are right ofcourse.)

He is not.

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8 hours ago, Noiser said:

Of course there will be nuances and differences and I'm prone to improve the compatibility of my mod. But with all due respect, saying it is "extremely crash prone in vanilla" is just ridiculous and false.

That wasn't my experience with it, but okay. If you say you fixed the issues, then sure.

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I'm still not really much of a fan of the modern ports. idk, the idea of spending around $10 for a lesser version of Doom 1 & 2 that runs on unity? I'll stick to my pc source ports. Or if I want to play Doom on my TV, I'd just play Doom: Classic Complete on the PS3, which includes all Final Doom stuff. (even though I purchased it before it got delisted from the PlayStation store.)

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12 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

That wasn't my experience with it, but okay. If you say you fixed the issues, then sure.

I’ve literally never had it crash on me in vanilla. Just throwing it out there. Noiser poured loads of work into that mod, for Edward to just come in and claim it’s “extremely crash prone” when it isn’t undermines how much BS Noiser went through to get it running as well as it does, with a frankly astounding level of cross-compatibility that no other comparable gameplay mod has ever achieved.

 

I’m going to assume you reported these oh so numerous crashes to Noiser in an attempt to help him make the mod the best it can be though, right? If not it seems pretty weird to call it “extremely crash prone”.

 

29 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Fine. Things like these are really not that important.

Yes they are. Speaking as a vanilla modder myself, getting even basic DeHackEd trickery to work as intended takes hours upon hours of effort if the mod is changing anything substantial about enemy or weapon behaviour. To pour so much work into it, getting it all to work right, then to just have it declared “crash prone” would be pretty god damn irritating indeed.

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3 minutes ago, Doom, Coffee, & Doughnuts said:

that runs on unity?

Why is this an important detail to you? Especially when

3 minutes ago, Doom, Coffee, & Doughnuts said:

I'd just play Doom: Classic Complete on the PS3

The PS3 version is the exact same codebase, only running in Doom3 instead.

 

2 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I’m going to assume you reported these oh so numerous crashes to Noiser in an attempt to help him make the mod the best it can be though, right? If not it seems pretty weird to call it “extremely crash prone”.

I assumed they were related the the intercepts trashing Linguica already had pointed out. It sure looked like it.

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ok? Why are you so concerned about my preference? I honestly don't know the nitty griddy of the codebase of Doom, but I know that I'm not willing to shell out more money for an inferior version of the game that I already have.

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26 minutes ago, Doom, Coffee, & Doughnuts said:

ok? Why are you so concerned about my preference?

Because you are throwing this around in the exact same message:

26 minutes ago, Doom, Coffee, & Doughnuts said:

for an inferior version of the game that I already have.

Which doesn't really explain what it is that you dislike about the port. The port already has Doom/2, Master Levels, as well as Final Doom, No Rest For the Living, SIGIL and Double Impact as addons (and there's likely still more addons to come), splitscreen, accurate gameplay (attract demos still play back), authentic SC-55 recorded music, 60 FPS interpolation...
So the question is, what is it that you dislike? Is there something specific the port lacks? What does it need?

Edited by Edward850

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10 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Yes they are. Speaking as a vanilla modder myself, getting even basic DeHackEd trickery to work as intended takes hours upon hours of effort if the mod is changing anything substantial about enemy or weapon behaviour. To pour so much work into it, getting it all to work right, then to just have it declared “crash prone” would be pretty god damn irritating indeed.

Ach gosh you have to forgive me then because i honestly do not want to cause any additional discussion over this and just think its really strenous having to address this over and over when i try to get away from it all because frankly, i do not consider a point (mines) correcting to.

 

I get what you are saying, but lets be clear - i just want to get away from this because it has very little interest from me. Thanks for the reply though!

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9 hours ago, whatup876 said:

 

They could have used an actual drawn artwork instead of a 3D model/render and have it being like some concept art of a UAC engineer, even if it was from 2016's art style.

Looks more out of place than the actual pre-official version of the wad.

You could have fooled someone unaware of which one is the addon and which one is the original version.

 

The new intermission pic is Eisen from Quake Champions, who is actually an engineer in the game. It also is kind of fitting since he started his life as an unused piece of concept art from new Doom, so I thought it would make a neat little easter egg that Double Impact is kind of an alternate reality Doom E1, and that it used what could've been the Doom guy in an alternate reality.

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44 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

So the question is, what is it that you dislike? Is there something specific the port lacks? What does it need?

Based on previous replies, it seems safe to assume their main issue with the port comes down to the fact that it runs through Unity. Unity has a long-standing (and frankly, bogus) reputation for being the "inferior" game engine when stacked up against other options.

 

@Doom, Coffee, & Doughnuts It'd be worth your time to read up on how the new Classic Doom release is using Unity, but the short story is: The new release is running the original game code as a dynamic library. This same library could be used in Unreal, Godot, Python, etc. It wouldn't matter. Unity is only being used as a wrapper, to simplify the whole process of getting it working on multiple platforms.

Quote

Unlike most Unity titles, however, none of the game logic or even the rasterization is handled in Unity. The Doom engine itself is entirely deployed as a dynamic library, exposing an interface that which all aspects of I/O (video, audio, input, filesystem, and network). Unity is responsible for feeding in all the inputs, and receives back a buffer containing the on-screen contents that is then blitted to a Unity canvas.

You can find this write-up by @sponge at his site, here: https://d8d.org/professional/doom-classic/

 

This release is effectively an official "limit-removing" port. It's Vanilla Doom with a few extra features to bring it up to modern standards.

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Has Id ever officially released a more advanced version of the Doom 1/2 engine before?

 

60 FPS, support for some MAPINFO format (sadly incompatible with UMAPINFO), easily portable to multiple platforms, local splitscreen, add-on download system...

 

Sure there are source ports made by the community with more advanced features, but calling it inferior when it might actually be the best one Id has released in modern times is a stretch.

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1 hour ago, Ferk said:

Has Id ever officially released a more advanced version of the Doom 1/2 engine before?

 

60 FPS, support for some MAPINFO format (sadly incompatible with UMAPINFO), easily portable to multiple platforms, local splitscreen, add-on download system...

 

Sure there are source ports made by the community with more advanced features, but calling it inferior when it might actually be the best one Id has released in modern times is a stretch.

 

No, they have never really cared prior, its always been dosbox releases, the BFG Edition '1.10' or the console releases that have all been based on the original Xbox port.

This is literally THE best official version of classic Doom id has ever released. Some people absolutely will not play anything not officially released out of bizarre purism, so this port's curated content might be the only way this stuff reaches these types :p

Although given how much content cherrypicks assets from other games, pickings are likely going to be slim, especially if developers of these level sets have to be contacted first.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the Master Level's individual wad selection menu be used in other ways, like, downloading a new set of curated individual levels, then having the menu let you choose between them. In this way we could download the rest of the works from the Master Levels developers (RIP Anderson and Flynn, that might be an issue), like the rejected Master Levels, and the other maps from Cabal, Titan and Inferno, or as mentioned earlier, officially-released maps from other ports of Doom, presented standalone. Betray is already in the game's files, afterall (Unless sponge and co took that out, its been a hidden part of every Doom 2 release)

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6 hours ago, Ferk said:

Has Id ever officially released a more advanced version of the Doom 1/2 engine before?

Doom 95, I guess? It was developed at Microsoft (Gabe Newell!), but released by id. Doom II got a "For Windows 95" CD release, and it was included in id Anthology. It introduced two higher resolutions - 640x400 and 640x480, a maximum 32 sound channels, and a handful of new bugs. That was as advanced as it got (for the original Doom engine), until the Xbox release.

 

(You could probably argue that the PS1/N64 versions of Doom were running on the most advanced version of the Doom engine, but as far as I can tell, their engine was pretty heavily altered from the original engine at that point.)

Edited by Lollie : quick bit of clarification

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4 hours ago, Ferk said:

Has Id ever officially released a more advanced version of the Doom 1/2 engine before?

The Doom Classic port for IOS comes to mind.  It is based on PrBoom, but it features a new OpenGL ES Renderer. So basically, its GLESBoom. (I just made this name up.)

 

Given the rise of ports to run on ARM devices (Like Quad Touch), and given that the source code is available, curiously, nobody has:

  • Ported this to Android.
  • Back ported this to PC.

Given its not based on PrBoom Plus, you ought to have those improvements in, but i can imagine GLESBoom for PC is a good starter point if you want to work on embedded platforms that rely on OpenGL ES and cannot use Vulkan. As it stands, there aren't that many ports that have an OpenGLES renderer in the first place (DoomGLES, Quad Touch and GZDoom-Android, though that is based off of an old Delta Touch version) and even fewer on PC.

Edited by Redneckerz

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N64 is more like a spin-off game, a different game altogether. PSX doesn't have the original maps but butchered versions of them from the Jaguar release, right? It was a contemporary console port, not a re-release of the vanilla (DOS) game on modern hardware.

 

The Doom Classic port included with the Doom 3 BFG edition had triple the vanilla resolution! I guess it is based on the earlier 360/XBLA release of the game?

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22 minutes ago, VGA said:

The Doom Classic port included with the Doom 3 BFG edition had triple the vanilla resolution! I guess it is based on the earlier 360/XBLA release of the game?

Yes.

Edited by Redneckerz

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Well, then, the XBLA version with triple resolution, 4-player splitscreen coop and online multiplayer was the most advanced until now, right?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, VGA said:

Well, then, the XBLA version with triple resolution, 4-player splitscreen coop and online multiplayer was the most advanced until now, right?

 

 

Yes. The Doom Classic port used a similar approach as to Doom Classic Unity by integrating it into the Id Tech 4 (Doom 3 Engine) framework. I say similar in the sense of such an external framework, not by its actual functionality.

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2 hours ago, VGA said:

N64 is more like a spin-off game, a different game altogether. PSX doesn't have the original maps but butchered versions of them from the Jaguar release, right? It was a contemporary console port, not a re-release of the vanilla (DOS) game on modern hardware.

I meant more the actual engines they run on, not so much the games themselves! From what I've read around the forums (thanks to GEC Master Edition releases, Doom 64 EX talk, various PSX Doom stuff, etc), I'm pretty sure Doom 64 was running on yet another version of the Console Doom lineage of engines? Jaguar > ??? > PSX > N64.

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 The PC version did not include splitscreen. Doom BFA has multiplayer but i don't think it has splitscreen.

 But that runs several instances of the game, it's very easy to do fake splitscreen with RUDE running the instances yourself and on a decent dual core 4 players should be possible. Now i compile with SDL 2.0.8 and gamepads work again. I've done a new release and i'll elaborate later.

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So just out of curiosity I bought the new official port for PC (UDoom) from the Bethesda Store. One thing I noticed right away is that the mouse has some delay to it. I'm guessing it's v-sync related (?). On Crispy Doom for example I prefer leaving the framerate capped so I don't "feel" any mouse delay even with v-sync on.

 

I like how you can download and launch custom content in-game, and also access multiplayer from the menu. Even though I prefer using other source ports right now for playing, I gotta say this new official Doom is pretty neat, and I hope it keeps improving.

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On 2/14/2020 at 9:43 PM, Edward850 said:

I assumed they were related the the intercepts trashing Linguica already had pointed out. It sure looked like it.

Still would be a false claim. Even if I hadn't fixed them, these were very rare occurances. The first was shown on NUTS, which isn't a stable vanilla map by any means. Then pointed through the Vortex Rifle, a new feat that pushed the engine to the limit - it took less than three days to be fixed (thanks to Linguica who helped me through the entire process) and I posted some videos about it. 

 

You didn't make any effort to realize that before doing such a serious claim about my mod. It's fine, shit happens. But I had to answer because you're a respectable programmer and people would take your word for granted. That's all.
 

On 2/14/2020 at 9:14 PM, Redneckerz said:

Fine. Things like these are really not that important.

You are right. I tried to not make a shitstorm, but it matters for me when people think I'm misleading them.
I'm chill though and will not derange the thread any further (I apologize for that).

Edited by Noiser

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2 hours ago, Noiser said:

You didn't make any effort to realize that before doing such a serious claim about my mod. It's fine, shit happens. But I had to answer because you're a respectable programmer and people would take your word for granted. That's all.

Fair enough. I since edited the post to report that the information is likely out of date anyway. Sorry.

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I just realized that the d_e1m8 music of Double Impact has been changed for this port. The PSX Doom theme bits have been downplayed in one spot and outright replaced in another.

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2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Fair enough. I since edited the post to report that the information is likely out of date anyway. Sorry.

It's alright, thanks for understanding.

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2 hours ago, Danfun64 said:

I just realized that the d_e1m8 music of Double Impact has been changed for this port. The PSX Doom theme bits have been downplayed in one spot and outright replaced in another.

 

I rewrote it entirely to get rid of the Doom 64 remnants. I also changed the arpeggio to not match it

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