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If you were tasked with designing the Doom 2 bestiary what would you do?

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Let's say in a hypothetical reality where you worked at id during the development of Doom 2 and were tasked with changing monsters as well as adding and removing them what would you change? (There are no concepts for our Doom 2 enemies so you have to come up with your own.)

 

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I would've made a weaker version of the Baron, more hitscanners, and maybe other small, flying enemies.

 

Nothing like a Revenant and especially an AV/PE because I'm a creatively bankrupt person.

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1 hour ago, Linguica said:

Of how I thought the Doom 2 monsters made combat more interesting. Going off this I would want a monster that involved time and immediate spatial awareness. My first thought was a area denial monster that randomly summons little danger zones around you (flame spouts or whatever) that make it more difficult to run around dodging everything. 

Basically, the version of the Diabolist from Paradise/Supercharge, or perhaps the death wyvern from Hexen.

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I would have made cultists with a weak magical attack (smaller/weaker than an imps fireball) but dangerous in groups.   (maybe with a heal other demons option via self-sacrifice...)

 

I always wanted this floating enemy that would generate a demon or spectre while paused mid-air (this was based off a monster shown in a Creature Catalogue article in Dragon magazine).

 

Skeletons....can't go wrong with skeletons.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, seed said:

other small, flying enemies.

 

That's a good idea, I've always liked the gargoyles from Heretic more than Lost Souls, even the gargoyles that throw fireballs for example. Without personally knowing if there is any difference in the code at all compared to normal gargoyles, Lost Souls just seem more annoying. It does seem like there is a good place to fill, somewhere between them and the Cacodemon.

 

If I was to look at Doom's bestiary and add something first it would be something like what ended up as the chaingunner. Good area denial but with focused attack it can be destroyed quickly. Walking humanoids are cooler than ceiling turrets, and while turrets have their place, moving enemies can be restricted with monster block lines or layout etc. if necessary.

 

Doom 2 has a good mid-tier enemy list but if I would consider like I only know Doom 1's enemies and what I would add, the HK, Revenant, Mancubus and Arachnotron all fit along the lines of what would be good. They all have their own considerations for placement, encounters etc. It's tough to think of what I would add because it's hard to forget Doom 2 exists. As cliche as it sounds, I think a mid-tier monster that punches the ground for an cone-shaped or AoE damage attack could add interesting gameplay. Placed well he would be low priority at a distance but extremely high priority up close, like a bigger slower pinkie to add timing pressure to a fight. All enemies have a threat gauge based on distance, but I think it's cool at times when this factor is emphasized.

Edited by reflex17

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Just now, reflex17 said:

That's a good idea, I've always liked the gargoyles from Heretic more than Lost Souls, even the gargoyles that throw fireballs for example. Without personally knowing if there is any difference in the code at all, Lost Souls just seem more annoying.

 

No wonder you're saying this, the Gargoyles and Afrits are generally just smarter enemies than the Dumb Souls who do nothing but fly into your face, and have too much health to be fun to kill.

 

At the very least, they should've been more like D64's souls, which were more aggressive, but also have less health, making them easier to kill with just one shotgun blast.

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Posted (edited)

I would add at least one small melee centric monster, the size of a lost soul, if not smaller, faster movement and attack than a pinkie, and about as durable as a former human if not less. Basically a "Zergling" type melee enemy that can swarm players. I would have also added a second iteration of that monster, perhaps, which leaves sticky puddles of goo on the ground where killed, which makes dodging harder, and adds tactical decision making to where you kill them.

 

Of course my idea would have been rejected at the time, because vanilla sprite limits and whatnot, but "doability" wasn't part of the OP, so that's what I'll go with.

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Considering how most of Doom I and II maps were tested by Romero and friends by how fun they were to play in death match sesions. I would introduce a zombie marine in blue armor with a different head sprite from zombiemen and shotgunners, or maybe a broken marine helmet with a blodied visor. This guy would behave similar to the three kings from Hexen or Mr X from Scythe II. It's missile attack would be the same plasma orbs as the plasma gun, its intended role is to be a player sized fast projectile monster whose primary role isn't a turret monster like the Arachnotron.

 

I would also change the Spider Mastermind to be smaller, lower painchance, moves and attacks faster, 3 times more health. Its difference with DooM's final boss would be that the previous one was a general not intended for battle, while these new ones are frontline commanders built to lead hell's armies.

 

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Posted (edited)

I would add a Rocket Former Human that has the same health points as a Shotgun Guy but drops a rocket when dies. He would required careful placing but can supply the player with additional ammo and can create havoc during infighting. A true glass Cannon. 

 

I would probably make some tweaks regarding the Spider Mastermind to make it more powerful and useful.

 

Maybe a flag option to make monsters have the fuzz effect similar to the Spectre so instead of just one type of "an invisible(nearly) monster", you can have all of them instead. I think it would create an entire different dynamic in terms of difficulty and gameplay but again it would require careful placing to avoid creating frustrating encounters. Just thinks of the amount of options you can choose, its like double the bestiary.

 

I would alter the Cacodemon behavior so it chases you down to perform their melee attack like other monsters instead of just bumping into you when getting too close. Also faster projectile attack, same as the Baron Of Hell.

 

I would give the Pain Elemental both a melee attack similar to Cacodemon and make it so when it dies, the explosion causes minor splash damage to anything near by. That way players would think twice before trying to cheese the hell out of it.

 

I would also add a low-tier flying monster with some sort of a hitscan attack.

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Posted (edited)

riot shield shotgunner.  it take a rocket's worth of damage to kill their shields, but then switching to a chaingun would be ideal to finish off the shotgunners.

 

hell knight with a thicc rocket in his hands.  a ssg blast will blow it up out of his hands.  or he can hurl 1 rocket at you like some hellish olympian.

 

plasma armor baron.  has a plasma rifle.  drops the gun after 1000 damage is dealt, leaving a fresh full hp baron.  a high-tech breastplat also breaks off.

Edited by Mk7_Centipede

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Posted (edited)

here's some things i'd do:

 

hitscan enemies always flinch when you hit them, but have better accuracy

 

Pinky demon lunges at you when they attack (like a limited range lost soul charge)

 

reduce cacodemon, baron, and lost soul HP but make their attacks more dangerous somehow (maybe they shoot multiple times in a row like cyberdemon)

 

Add a new monster with random projectile aiming (as if you always have PI on, but maybe without such extreme divergence)

 

New boss monster with like 40 different attacks (the best kind :p) and about quadruple the health of a cyberdemon

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24 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

New boss monster with like 40 different attacks (the best kind :p) and about quadruple the health of a cyberdemon

This

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Posted (edited)

I have some weird ideas for monsters.

  • Shock Elemental: Spits out spirit-like souls that explode in mini-shockwaves in proximity to the player or when they make contact with either the player, other demons or any surface. Closer up it's body releases arching bolts of lightning so you can get a good zap if you charge it... When it dies, these electrical orbs fly out and explode on contact to whatever they touch.
  • Machine Gunner: Slightly tougher than a chaingunner, but carries a M249 SAW / light machine gun that fires some kind of phosphorus rounds that burn the hell out of your armor. Very dangerous, you go first.
  • Phasenotron: Similar to the Archnotron but a bit smaller. It can phase out of reality into another dimension. It can't attack nor can it be hit until it phases back, this time in another place but it can't beam very far, just enough to be a bit tactical and it can't beam right next to the player. It fires some kind of plasma in rapid bursts before it phases out.

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A few types of monsters I would like to add would be:

 

- An area denial monster: Like Linguica mentioned, a monster that marks some danger marks/spots around the player which get bombarded soon afterwards. This would make the player be careful of when and where to move. The Diabolist from Minicharge/Supercharge fills this role nicely. Could also have an attack like the maulotaur's fire stream attack.

- A high DPS flying monster: Doom really lacks a high DPS flying monster. The astral cacodemon from Eviternity is a good example of such kind of monster to fill the role.

- A fast moving, high DPS but low HP monster: An enemy that you would want to kill ASAP and would make the chaingun more useful as well. Like the stealth alien from Ancient Aliens.

- A high threat melee monster: Either a fast but low HP monster meant to be used for swarms like the enemy which NineInchHeels mentioned or a fast and more sturdy monster but used in smaller numbers like the Nightmare Demon from Eviternity.

- A proper boss enemy: One that actually isn't a wall like the IoS. Some thing like the Diabolist boss from Valiant or the Archangel from Eviternity.

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Firstly, I'd make sure the two rockets the revenant fires are much more clearer in terms of which is which. The only difference in vanilla I just a smoke trail for the homing rockets which isn't easy to see in low lit areas.

 

The Arch-vile I'd slow down and reduce the base health for. Currently it's a sponge that runs really fast.

 

Hell Knights I'd change the design for. They're literally just a re-skinned baron with 50% less HP. Maybe instead of a clone, make the hell knight shoot out 3 projectiles in a split shot but it does much less damage, so the baron is the tanky hard hitter and the knights are the weaker, more scatter-shot style of enemy.

 

I'd make the spider mastermind the TRUE final boss-style of enemy it was meant to be. First off, up it's health to 6000. Secondly, add an alt attack that makes it shoot mini-rockets. Finally, SHINK. IT'S. HITBOX. Unless you're planning on making a GINORMOUS map, Spider Masterminds are far too big to place down easily.

 

Lastly, In stead of a chaingunner, why not a former marine? It's armed with a strong rifle gun, making it more of a sniper style of firing. Obviously it also needs a much higher chance of hitting to make it threatening.

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On 1/2/2020 at 8:13 AM, ReaperAA said:

- A high threat melee monster: Either a fast but low HP monster meant to be used for swarms like the enemy which NineInchHeels mentioned or a fast and more sturdy monster but used in smaller numbers like the Nightmare Demon from Eviternity.

- fast Demons and Spectres are exactly that. I pity anyone who hasn't experienced that yet as a -fast Spectre in a dark area is an entirely new level of horror.

 

What I would add is a splash damage enemy other than the Cyberdemon and Arch-Vile. Probably could give it to a Baron and make his green balls a bit bigger and explode on hit to differentiate him from Hell Knight.

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3 minutes ago, idbeholdME said:

- fast Demons and Spectres are exactly that. I pity anyone who hasn't experienced that yet as a -fast Spectre in a dark area is an entirely new level of horror.

if you haven't experienced turbo pinkies, you haven't lived.

 

it's terrifying ::::::::::::))))))))

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1 minute ago, Tartlman said:

if you haven't experienced turbo pinkies, you haven't lived.

 

it's terrifying ::::::::::::))))))))

Exactly. It is incredible how it makes the most useless punching bag from the enemy roster into an actual threat.

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4 hours ago, idbeholdME said:

- fast Demons and Spectres are exactly that. I pity anyone who hasn't experienced that yet as a -fast Spectre in a dark area is an entirely new level of horror.

 

Well yeah I am aware of them (and their horror as well 😆). But they are only a high threat with the -fast parameter. Most modern mapsets are not balanced with the -fast parameter in mind.  

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Mapsets like Avactor or Eviternity feature their own variants of the turbodemon.

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