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Jaska

Lost civilization "Part 2" development thread!

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Oh my god, already?

 

Man, I really hope this gets a "vaccinated" edition, since we haven't really got an exploration map as breathtaking as lostciv 1 in a while (in my opinion). Good luck on the project!

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7 hours ago, Jaska said:

-Fun
...
-Good flow

 

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

Dialog, some kind of journal

 

I find these goals a bit contradictory :)

Reading a journal kills the flow and is usually just tedious to read them.

 

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

-not many players play maps twice or more so there was not much reason to create many routes. 

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

In any case, I'm looking forward to the sequel no matter how you decide to make it. The screenshots look amazing :)

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7 hours ago, Jaska said:

As the first part suffered nonlinearity being quite futile for many reasons:
    -not being obvioius to the player
    -not showing how different routes affected the gameplay.
    -not many players play maps twice or more so there was not much reason to create many routes.

 

16 minutes ago, SP_FACE1 said:

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

I have to agree with SP_FACE1 -- all the things you listed as flaws just seemed like excellent explorability to me, and the alternate routes were constructed in such a way that it felt enjoyable to keep looking and explore every nook and cranny of the maps. Map 04 and map 20 of Lost Civ, which were the most nonlinear maps, were among the best in the whole set. Having multiple routes only feels redundant if they are completely separated from each other, but your layouts are super interconnected.

 

In any case, it'll be cool to see what you do with GZDoom features.

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14 hours ago, SP_FACE1 said:

 

 

I find these goals a bit contradictory :)

Reading a journal kills the flow and is usually just tedious to read them.

 

I think dialog with NPCs gives a nice pause in fast paced combat. It gives something else to do than just shoot, a breather moment. But if someone doesn't like that there is not much to do with it. Well.. There could be a possibility to add skill level which doesn't have NPCs at all. Testing with all I've included now is and will be pain in the ass so lets see. I'm not sure about the journal yet anyway and you might be right on that. Simple things should work. If someone just skips dialogs and misses or don't remember what was in it, there must be something to remind the objectives. Or keep things just more linear. We'll see as I develop ideas further.

 

14 hours ago, SP_FACE1 said:

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

In any case, I'm looking forward to the sequel no matter how you decide to make it. The screenshots look amazing :)

 

Thanks! Well then I have misunderstood some of the feedback from nonlinearity.

 

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14 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

 

 

I have to agree with SP_FACE1 -- all the things you listed as flaws just seemed like excellent explorability to me, and the alternate routes were constructed in such a way that it felt enjoyable to keep looking and explore every nook and cranny of the maps. Map 04 and map 20 of Lost Civ, which were the most nonlinear maps, were among the best in the whole set. Having multiple routes only feels redundant if they are completely separated from each other, but your layouts are super interconnected.

 

In any case, it'll be cool to see what you do with GZDoom features.

 

It's very nice to hear because I used a lot of time and thinking to it! There was some feedback which I may have put too much weight on.

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I just reached Map 18 on the original, and every level is a feast for the eyes and equally satisfying on the gameplay account as well.

The "quest" direction you have in mind for the sequel is interesting. I look forward to seeing how this develops. Screenshots are looking breathtaking as expected in the meantime!

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1 hour ago, Turin Turambar said:

That sounds really ambitious in terms of new features. I guess we will play it in 2-3 years :P

 

It's not so much considering I can use existing material from realm667 and all those resource threads. I can lower sector detailing using  models instead. So it's much about basic mapping. Of course all those difficulty levels and some scripting takes time. And testing all resources that they serve a purpose.. I've already on good progress with UDMF. I'm hoping to release something even this year. Like, make the hub-map ready and then just unlock content to next releases.

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I have not finished Lost Civilization but I played for now up to map 12 with friends and I have no words to describe it, so knowing that there will be an actual sequel with a full story and all just makes me so happy!

I was sad thinking that I would someday end the mapset and have nothing else to play, so yeah I am really looking forward to this!

Btw, if you need ideas for names or concepts, you can ask me and I will be glad to help!

I am very creative and I'd like to share my ideas with others if that means it's useful for something!

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Oh wow, a continuation. I just finished the 22 maps set. I have played "all" wads in existance and this one gets in my top 5. Now, knowing there will be some more of this is some wonderful news. So I'll leave some thoughts that may, or not, be useful;

 

- After a few minutes of playing the first map, I knew I was into a Masterpiece. Now that I still am with a fresh feeling of the Ending map, by itself, this map is a Masterpiece. So, for what you are working on as a sequel, I can only say: surprise us. Either direction you will take, I'm VERY VERY confident that it'll blast us all.

 

- The non linearity of the maps is what stands out the most, gameplay wise, for me. So many times have I hesitated to take a path instead of the other trying to remember to track back right after ... NOT, 'cause you ended up finding some more things, routes that seemed even more promising ... but after all, the maps are so well constructed that you would eventually come back for the missed parts later on. I have NEVER seen this at this extent in any other game. And it's damn addicitve.

 

- Still, gameplay wise, the absolute freeness of the player to crawl cliffs, mountains and drop them with, in many occasions, a satisfactory state of finding something like ammo or a secret. I was proud of myself for the risks taken by my marine in some most improbable places trying to find nothing but ending up with something. AWESOME. I have never been free like that in a wad and, still, there were some places I'd wish to go further ...

 

- There is a perfect balance between spawned fights, the fights with the existant monters at first, the quest and the search for everything. No abusive slaughter, nothing unfair, and there was always something to get you back on track. In a map like the last one, it's a miracle that I could complete it with 100% without having to struggle my way through. I just don't understand how you managed to achieve this.

 

- I play my wads with Colourful Hell and Trailblazer version 3 as this combination is the most satisfying for me; a vanilla bored player with miles of experience, and when I got face to face with Romero's incarnation of the White Cybie (Colourful Hell) in the crusher room on map 20, I found out what I could do with this thing after being crushed myself :) ... No words to describe the fun.

 

So I think you get the point here. You are a god mapper for this last set and take our words of advice not too much and elevate your project in another dimension. Good luck and be sure we'll be there.

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On 1/24/2020 at 2:41 AM, Archanhell said:

I have not finished Lost Civilization but I played for now up to map 12 with friends and I have no words to describe it, so knowing that there will be an actual sequel with a full story and all just makes me so happy!

I was sad thinking that I would someday end the mapset and have nothing else to play, so yeah I am really looking forward to this!

Btw, if you need ideas for names or concepts, you can ask me and I will be glad to help!

I am very creative and I'd like to share my ideas with others if that means it's useful for something!

Thanks! Well I think there is a lot to play :)

You can send me a private message and I'll see if I can implement/use them.

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7 hours ago, pfl said:

Oh wow, a continuation. I just finished the 22 maps set. I have played "all" wads in existance and this one gets in my top 5. Now, knowing there will be some more of this is some wonderful news. So I'll leave some thoughts that may, or not, be useful;

 

- After a few minutes of playing the first map, I knew I was into a Masterpiece. Now that I still am with a fresh feeling of the Ending map, by itself, this map is a Masterpiece. So, for what you are working on as a sequel, I can only say: surprise us. Either direction you will take, I'm VERY VERY confident that it'll blast us all.

 

At this point I'm thinking I can't surpass last maps scale and level of detail. I might have to even lower the level of detail. Altough with models the level of detail goes inevitably up, as sector detailing may go down. Texture resolution will also be better on most cases. Gameplay will be better and the sense of being in a living world, exploration and story should be far more better.

 

7 hours ago, pfl said:

 

- The non linearity of the maps is what stands out the most, gameplay wise, for me. So many times have I hesitated to take a path instead of the other trying to remember to track back right after ... NOT, 'cause you ended up finding some more things, routes that seemed even more promising ... but after all, the maps are so well constructed that you would eventually come back for the missed parts later on. I have NEVER seen this at this extent in any other game. And it's damn addicitve.

 

- Still, gameplay wise, the absolute freeness of the player to crawl cliffs, mountains and drop them with, in many occasions, a satisfactory state of finding something like ammo or a secret. I was proud of myself for the risks taken by my marine in some most improbable places trying to find nothing but ending up with something. AWESOME. I have never been free like that in a wad and, still, there were some places I'd wish to go further ...

That is very nice to hear! Well when I've played some games, the problem has been many times like, why I can't go there? For example map04 kept growing and growing when I wanted myself to go even further. Like the mansion on the top, I wanted so see what's on other side. So I had to create it, heh. I had a vision of getting in but it was too much and wouldn't served too much considering the effort. With the part2 and portals I can go further than with boom-compatibility at 3d-sense. While you can do nice things with silent teleporters also.

 

7 hours ago, pfl said:

- There is a perfect balance between spawned fights, the fights with the existant monters at first, the quest and the search for everything. No abusive slaughter, nothing unfair, and there was always something to get you back on track. In a map like the last one, it's a miracle that I could complete it with 100% without having to struggle my way through. I just don't understand how you managed to achieve this.

Thanks!

Well I struggled to get it together! But it was mostly a pleasant struggle. I kept a little break and I always found somewhere to continue on. At last it just came together nicely. I kind a felt sad it was done. I still was worried players got lost in it, not knowing where to go.

7 hours ago, pfl said:

- I play my wads with Colourful Hell and Trailblazer version 3 as this combination is the most satisfying for me; a vanilla bored player with miles of experience, and when I got face to face with Romero's incarnation of the White Cybie (Colourful Hell) in the crusher room on map 20, I found out what I could do with this thing after being crushed myself :) ... No words to describe the fun.

 

So I think you get the point here. You are a god mapper for this last set and take our words of advice not too much and elevate your project in another dimension. Good luck and be sure we'll be there.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Advice is always welcome!

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Immensely excited for this. In many criteria, you may be the best Doom mapper working right now.

 

Name ideas:

 

Civilization Found   (or something to do with Lost and Found, the idea comes from a Lost show episode title...)

Return to Civilization

The Second Civilization

Et Inventus Est (Latin for "and found")

Ruins Rebuilt

The Second Founding

Lost Foundations

 

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Holy shit I can't believe it's true, but now I might be more hyped for LC2 than for Eternal xD Fills my heart with joy to see you make more of this beautiful stuff Jaska! All your new ideas sound amazing and you just can't go wrong if LC1 is your baseline. I'd love to say more if I had the time atm, but it's practically all been said in previous comments here. Love your work and can't wait to play the next full release!

 

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Updated 1st post!

 

Every megawad has to have sewer? Right? Part 1 didn't have though.
7q5bZnn.png

Some interior design, not finished at all. Have to rescale sprites etc.
r8nDLi9.png

Basement action, huh? Have to keep the buildings warm even in virtual world.
ngXdGm4.png

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Dang that's nice.  The first project blended in really fun gameplay with the amazing visuals, I'm already wanting to run through these new worlds!

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Breakable enviroment seems pretty cool! I still remember you could break wooden/metal bars on the first LC, in a few maps!

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