Lost civilization "Part 2" development thread!

[Jaska]

[Update 24.5.2021.]

Link to the release-thread as if someone follows this thread.

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/117977-release-lost-civilization-2-part-1-the-introduction/

 

 

Update history:

Spoiler

[2.9.2020 Update: Screenshots]

[2.5.2020 Update: Screenshots on 1st post, also on own post]

[2.4.2020 Update: Dynamically destructible environment, pics on own post]

[2.3.2020 Update: about 40 more models added, some breakables, some decoration stuff, didn't update the numbers as changes so minor. 2 screenshots on last post]

[2.2.2020 Update: numbers of resources, screenshots, added a little more description.]

[2.9.2020 Update: Screenshots]

 

 

This is continuation to my project "Lost civilization". This is "Part 2" (Think for a better name!).

 

Starting slowly to stream mapping and playing some maps.
https://www.twitch.tv/doomedjaska

 

12.12.2019 I decided to continue with this "Lost civilization" theme. Since then I've been collecting resources and experimenting with GZDoom engine. PK3 is now over 200(130,100) megs and growing. I'll update here the progress of the project.

 

It has now a revolutionary "play soccer with demons" simulation!

 

Current status 2.2.2020  (status at 2.1.2020):

Improvements (All are going to change to some degree)
    Visual
        Better texture resolution for the most textures  ~12000  (~8200)
        Lots of decorations, lamps, trees, bushes ~400 (~100)
        Models decorations ~340  (~158)
        Destroyable props,  about same (~20)
        GZDoom effects: fog, clouds, floor glow, reflections, portals, 3d-floors, lens flares, possibly rain, snow etc.
        Changing environment
    Gameplay
        More monsters ~50 (~17)
        More weapons, about same (~15)
        More items, about same (~10)
        Inventory items, about same (~12)
        NPCs with dialog, about same (~10 ideas)
        Roleplay elements
            Example: Find firewood to NPC and get rewarded with hunting rifle.
            Example: Give a fieldkit to a sick NPC or use it for yourself.
            Example: Exchange your precius weapon for armor
            Example: Find food for hungy NPC or eat it yourself
            Example: Find 10 bottles of wine to bartender for random powerup
        Hub-world filled with interconnections and missions (optional and story).
        Many skill levels to give something for everybody (5)
            -Just exploring
            -Easy
            -Normal
            -Hard
            -Impossible! (resource starvation, avoid some enemies)
        More verticality with 3D-floors
        Allies, free captivated NPCs.
        Changing environment (maybe even how you choose)
        Interaction with world. Destroyable, pushable, fixable, usable or locked objects.
        Environmental hazards, poison clouds, lava, nukage, (maybe electic, cold)

        Scripts

   

Some may think if there will be too much monsters, weapons and stuff. I will cut off anything that will not fit.. Now I'm at the point where I play with everything I can get. Call it sandbox phase or something.

 

This has quite the same design goals as the first part.
-Fun
-Nonlinear
-Lifelike environments
-Good flow

This also has roleplaying aspects. You start with maximum health of 50 which can be risen with "vitality serums". You start very weak and end up as a poweful hero. There should be always some tension towards health&armor, ammo and more powerful weapons and exploring either towards story items or items you can barter with NPCs.

 

 

Screenshots!

 

2.9.2020

Town. 

 

 

2.5.2020

Dynamically breakable facade.

Spoiler

 

 

View from inside after a litte destruction.

 

 

 

Town with old sky:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

2.2.2020

Spoiler

 

Town center

Rosegarden

View to the city

 

 

 

 

 

2.1.2020

Spoiler

 

You enter with your familiar boat to the docks injured.

Fight your way to the city (hub).

If you can get there alive!

 

 

 

 

 

Link to Part 1 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/105215-lost-civilization-22-map-fun-and-nonlinear-megawad-now-with-download-link/

 

2.1.2020 thoughts about part 1s nonlinearity

Spoiler

 

As the first part suffered nonlinearity being quite futile for many reasons:
    -not being obvioius to the player
    -not showing how different routes affected the gameplay.
    -not many players play maps twice or more so there was not much reason to create many routes.

Hub world encourages exploration and multiple uses for locations. Dialog, some kind of journal and map markers will guide the player.
Some optional routes will be ...
    1)Just optional for the exploration and free feel.
    2)"Secret" routes that give you goodies. Rewarding on Doom2 assets was quite nonexistent.
    3)You are forced to complete optional missions for resources (at least on higher difficulty levels).
    4)Hopefully more clearly signed what difference they make.

 

 

Donate:

https://paypal.me/JImpola

https://liberapay.com/Jaska/donate

Edited May 24, 2021 by Jaska : Update

[Tartlman]

Oh my god, already?

 

Man, I really hope this gets a "vaccinated" edition, since we haven't really got an exploration map as breathtaking as lostciv 1 in a while (in my opinion). Good luck on the project!

[Firedust]

Is this a story sequel? :D

[Jaska]

13 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Is this a story sequel? :D

 

Loosely.

[SP_FACE1]

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

-Fun
...
-Good flow

 

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

Dialog, some kind of journal

 

I find these goals a bit contradictory :)

Reading a journal kills the flow and is usually just tedious to read them.

 

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

-not many players play maps twice or more so there was not much reason to create many routes. 

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

In any case, I'm looking forward to the sequel no matter how you decide to make it. The screenshots look amazing :)

[Not Jabba]

7 hours ago, Jaska said:

As the first part suffered nonlinearity being quite futile for many reasons:
    -not being obvioius to the player
    -not showing how different routes affected the gameplay.
    -not many players play maps twice or more so there was not much reason to create many routes.

 

16 minutes ago, SP_FACE1 said:

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

I have to agree with SP_FACE1 -- all the things you listed as flaws just seemed like excellent explorability to me, and the alternate routes were constructed in such a way that it felt enjoyable to keep looking and explore every nook and cranny of the maps. Map 04 and map 20 of Lost Civ, which were the most nonlinear maps, were among the best in the whole set. Having multiple routes only feels redundant if they are completely separated from each other, but your layouts are super interconnected.

 

In any case, it'll be cool to see what you do with GZDoom features.

[Jaska]

14 hours ago, SP_FACE1 said:

 

 

I find these goals a bit contradictory :)

Reading a journal kills the flow and is usually just tedious to read them.

 

I think dialog with NPCs gives a nice pause in fast paced combat. It gives something else to do than just shoot, a breather moment. But if someone doesn't like that there is not much to do with it. Well.. There could be a possibility to add skill level which doesn't have NPCs at all. Testing with all I've included now is and will be pain in the ass so lets see. I'm not sure about the journal yet anyway and you might be right on that. Simple things should work. If someone just skips dialogs and misses or don't remember what was in it, there must be something to remind the objectives. Or keep things just more linear. We'll see as I develop ideas further.

 

14 hours ago, SP_FACE1 said:

Just want to note that in coop other players will find new routes during a single session.

 

I didn't recognize any of the flaws you listed about the first part. I played it several times both in single player and coop and I found new stuff every time which was part of it's charm. It's a beautiful peace of a wad, captivating, fun and entertaining.

 

In any case, I'm looking forward to the sequel no matter how you decide to make it. The screenshots look amazing :)

 

Thanks! Well then I have misunderstood some of the feedback from nonlinearity.

 

[Jaska]

14 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

 

 

I have to agree with SP_FACE1 -- all the things you listed as flaws just seemed like excellent explorability to me, and the alternate routes were constructed in such a way that it felt enjoyable to keep looking and explore every nook and cranny of the maps. Map 04 and map 20 of Lost Civ, which were the most nonlinear maps, were among the best in the whole set. Having multiple routes only feels redundant if they are completely separated from each other, but your layouts are super interconnected.

 

In any case, it'll be cool to see what you do with GZDoom features.

 

It's very nice to hear because I used a lot of time and thinking to it! There was some feedback which I may have put too much weight on.

[Jaska]

Some progress:

 

 

 

[Эд]

If you need any custom music ambient - i can write it, just saying =)

[Dynamo]

Looks amazing once again :D Looking forward to see what you'll be able to do on GZDoom!

[Murdoch]

Dead sexy.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

That's... something.

I'm quite interested in the hub portion of the wad now.

[666shooter]

I just reached Map 18 on the original, and every level is a feast for the eyes and equally satisfying on the gameplay account as well.

The "quest" direction you have in mind for the sequel is interesting. I look forward to seeing how this develops. Screenshots are looking breathtaking as expected in the meantime!

[Turin Turambar]

That sounds really ambitious in terms of new features. I guess we will play it in 2-3 years :P

[Ribbiks]

On 1/8/2020 at 2:55 PM, Jaska said:

Some progress:

 

dang that second shot looks amazing

[Jaska]

1 hour ago, Turin Turambar said:

That sounds really ambitious in terms of new features. I guess we will play it in 2-3 years :P

 

It's not so much considering I can use existing material from realm667 and all those resource threads. I can lower sector detailing using  models instead. So it's much about basic mapping. Of course all those difficulty levels and some scripting takes time. And testing all resources that they serve a purpose.. I've already on good progress with UDMF. I'm hoping to release something even this year. Like, make the hub-map ready and then just unlock content to next releases.

[Not Jabba]

Also, 2-3 years isn't that long for a big Doom mapping project. Good work takes time.

[Archanhell]

I have not finished Lost Civilization but I played for now up to map 12 with friends and I have no words to describe it, so knowing that there will be an actual sequel with a full story and all just makes me so happy!

I was sad thinking that I would someday end the mapset and have nothing else to play, so yeah I am really looking forward to this!

Btw, if you need ideas for names or concepts, you can ask me and I will be glad to help!

I am very creative and I'd like to share my ideas with others if that means it's useful for something!

[pfl]

Oh wow, a continuation. I just finished the 22 maps set. I have played "all" wads in existance and this one gets in my top 5. Now, knowing there will be some more of this is some wonderful news. So I'll leave some thoughts that may, or not, be useful;

 

- After a few minutes of playing the first map, I knew I was into a Masterpiece. Now that I still am with a fresh feeling of the Ending map, by itself, this map is a Masterpiece. So, for what you are working on as a sequel, I can only say: surprise us. Either direction you will take, I'm VERY VERY confident that it'll blast us all.

 

- The non linearity of the maps is what stands out the most, gameplay wise, for me. So many times have I hesitated to take a path instead of the other trying to remember to track back right after ... NOT, 'cause you ended up finding some more things, routes that seemed even more promising ... but after all, the maps are so well constructed that you would eventually come back for the missed parts later on. I have NEVER seen this at this extent in any other game. And it's damn addicitve.

 

- Still, gameplay wise, the absolute freeness of the player to crawl cliffs, mountains and drop them with, in many occasions, a satisfactory state of finding something like ammo or a secret. I was proud of myself for the risks taken by my marine in some most improbable places trying to find nothing but ending up with something. AWESOME. I have never been free like that in a wad and, still, there were some places I'd wish to go further ...

 

- There is a perfect balance between spawned fights, the fights with the existant monters at first, the quest and the search for everything. No abusive slaughter, nothing unfair, and there was always something to get you back on track. In a map like the last one, it's a miracle that I could complete it with 100% without having to struggle my way through. I just don't understand how you managed to achieve this.

 

- I play my wads with Colourful Hell and Trailblazer version 3 as this combination is the most satisfying for me; a vanilla bored player with miles of experience, and when I got face to face with Romero's incarnation of the White Cybie (Colourful Hell) in the crusher room on map 20, I found out what I could do with this thing after being crushed myself :) ... No words to describe the fun.

 

So I think you get the point here. You are a god mapper for this last set and take our words of advice not too much and elevate your project in another dimension. Good luck and be sure we'll be there.

[Jaska]

On 1/24/2020 at 2:41 AM, Archanhell said:

I have not finished Lost Civilization but I played for now up to map 12 with friends and I have no words to describe it, so knowing that there will be an actual sequel with a full story and all just makes me so happy!

I was sad thinking that I would someday end the mapset and have nothing else to play, so yeah I am really looking forward to this!

Btw, if you need ideas for names or concepts, you can ask me and I will be glad to help!

I am very creative and I'd like to share my ideas with others if that means it's useful for something!

Thanks! Well I think there is a lot to play :)

You can send me a private message and I'll see if I can implement/use them.

[Jaska]

7 hours ago, pfl said:

Oh wow, a continuation. I just finished the 22 maps set. I have played "all" wads in existance and this one gets in my top 5. Now, knowing there will be some more of this is some wonderful news. So I'll leave some thoughts that may, or not, be useful;

 

- After a few minutes of playing the first map, I knew I was into a Masterpiece. Now that I still am with a fresh feeling of the Ending map, by itself, this map is a Masterpiece. So, for what you are working on as a sequel, I can only say: surprise us. Either direction you will take, I'm VERY VERY confident that it'll blast us all.

 

At this point I'm thinking I can't surpass last maps scale and level of detail. I might have to even lower the level of detail. Altough with models the level of detail goes inevitably up, as sector detailing may go down. Texture resolution will also be better on most cases. Gameplay will be better and the sense of being in a living world, exploration and story should be far more better.

 

7 hours ago, pfl said:

 

- The non linearity of the maps is what stands out the most, gameplay wise, for me. So many times have I hesitated to take a path instead of the other trying to remember to track back right after ... NOT, 'cause you ended up finding some more things, routes that seemed even more promising ... but after all, the maps are so well constructed that you would eventually come back for the missed parts later on. I have NEVER seen this at this extent in any other game. And it's damn addicitve.

 

- Still, gameplay wise, the absolute freeness of the player to crawl cliffs, mountains and drop them with, in many occasions, a satisfactory state of finding something like ammo or a secret. I was proud of myself for the risks taken by my marine in some most improbable places trying to find nothing but ending up with something. AWESOME. I have never been free like that in a wad and, still, there were some places I'd wish to go further ...

That is very nice to hear! Well when I've played some games, the problem has been many times like, why I can't go there? For example map04 kept growing and growing when I wanted myself to go even further. Like the mansion on the top, I wanted so see what's on other side. So I had to create it, heh. I had a vision of getting in but it was too much and wouldn't served too much considering the effort. With the part2 and portals I can go further than with boom-compatibility at 3d-sense. While you can do nice things with silent teleporters also.

 

7 hours ago, pfl said:

- There is a perfect balance between spawned fights, the fights with the existant monters at first, the quest and the search for everything. No abusive slaughter, nothing unfair, and there was always something to get you back on track. In a map like the last one, it's a miracle that I could complete it with 100% without having to struggle my way through. I just don't understand how you managed to achieve this.

Thanks!

Well I struggled to get it together! But it was mostly a pleasant struggle. I kept a little break and I always found somewhere to continue on. At last it just came together nicely. I kind a felt sad it was done. I still was worried players got lost in it, not knowing where to go.

7 hours ago, pfl said:

- I play my wads with Colourful Hell and Trailblazer version 3 as this combination is the most satisfying for me; a vanilla bored player with miles of experience, and when I got face to face with Romero's incarnation of the White Cybie (Colourful Hell) in the crusher room on map 20, I found out what I could do with this thing after being crushed myself :) ... No words to describe the fun.

 

So I think you get the point here. You are a god mapper for this last set and take our words of advice not too much and elevate your project in another dimension. Good luck and be sure we'll be there.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Advice is always welcome!

[kain967]

Immensely excited for this. In many criteria, you may be the best Doom mapper working right now.

 

Name ideas:

 

Civilization Found   (or something to do with Lost and Found, the idea comes from a Lost show episode title...)

Return to Civilization

The Second Civilization

Et Inventus Est (Latin for "and found")

Ruins Rebuilt

The Second Founding

Lost Foundations

 

[METAL DANNY 420]

Holy shit I can't believe it's true, but now I might be more hyped for LC2 than for Eternal xD Fills my heart with joy to see you make more of this beautiful stuff Jaska! All your new ideas sound amazing and you just can't go wrong if LC1 is your baseline. I'd love to say more if I had the time atm, but it's practically all been said in previous comments here. Love your work and can't wait to play the next full release!

 

[Jaska]

Updated 1st post!

 

Every megawad has to have sewer? Right? Part 1 didn't have though.

Some interior design, not finished at all. Have to rescale sprites etc.

Basement action, huh? Have to keep the buildings warm even in virtual world.

[Jaska]

What interiors might look like:

 

Progress on outdoor stuff:

[adamadam]

Dang that's nice.  The first project blended in really fun gameplay with the amazing visuals, I'm already wanting to run through these new worlds!

[Jaska]

I haven't got much progress on last month. Something quite cool still. Dynamically breakable environment! This is still only a test setup.

Breakable wall

 

See these by "dodopod" :
https://gitlab.com/dodopod/zscript-material
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=63907

[Ribo Zurai]

This looks amazing. LC is one of my favorite mapsets, can't wait to see how this one develops.

[Archanhell]

Breakable enviroment seems pretty cool! I still remember you could break wooden/metal bars on the first LC, in a few maps!