Get Phobo Posted January 10, 2020 So, Bethesda has re-released the classic games. Has anyone played them yet? What's the deal with that 60 fps update? I've seen a trailer where the weapon and monster animations are just the basic vanilla animations and not smooth at all. 0 Share this post Link to post
deepthaw Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Get Phobo said: So, Bethesda has re-released the classic games. Has anyone played them yet? What's the deal with that 60 fps update? I've seen a trailer where the weapon and monster animations are just the basic vanilla animations and not smooth at all. Doom originally topped at out 35fps for the entire world, because that's how the internal engine kept time. The 60fps update means rendering is no longer tied to that internal timekeeping. Animations are the same, but view changes and movement through space will appear smoother thanks to interpolation. 3 Share this post Link to post
Get Phobo Posted January 10, 2020 Aha, thanks. This thread can be closed, then. 1 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted January 10, 2020 No, we should have a thread for the new PC ports outside the console forum. 10 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted January 10, 2020 Some initial tests of the new PC port: Vanilla conveyors work Void glides work Simple linguortal works (portal2.wad in my test) More complex linguortal has visual errors (portal3.wad) Very complex linguortal crashes game instantly (portal5.wad) Iikka special effects tricks work Putting a multi level speedrun as a DEMO1 in a PWAD and letting it run does NOT work (will play the first map and then sit on the intermission screen) Trying to load Remnant as an add-on crashes instantly Typed cheat codes do not work(!!) 16 Share this post Link to post
Get Phobo Posted January 10, 2020 From the other thread, NUTS.WAD apparently crashes it, too. LOL 1 Share this post Link to post
VanaheimRanger Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Linguica said: Typed cheat codes do not work(!!) EDIT: Actually...Why even release this again on PC? There are still buyable options on Steam and GOG. But I guess Bethesda doesn't get profit from those? Edited January 11, 2020 by guitardz 2 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, guitardz said: EDIT: Actually...Why even release this again on PC? There are still buyable options on Steam and GOG that aren't censored to hell. But I guess Bethesda doesn't get profit from those? Because they can, and the ports offer different features. And "censored to hell" is a silly hill to die on, Nazi iconography is blatantly not important to the game. 1 hour ago, Get Phobo said: From the other thread, NUTS.WAD apparently crashes it, too. LOL Nuts wasn't even stable in vanilla Doom. That's nothing new at all. 0 Share this post Link to post
VanaheimRanger Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Edward850 said: Because they can, and the ports offer different features? The other ports offer the feature of coming with usable IWADS that can be used in a source port. From what I understand those files are locked up as Unity assets in this release and need an extractor to get to them. My biggest fear with this is that the Steam and GOG versions of this will end up getting pulled off those markets so that this is the only one available. I hope it doesn't come to that, because it could easily mean the end of Doom modding. Edited January 11, 2020 by guitardz 0 Share this post Link to post
BBQgiraffe Posted January 10, 2020 I had no idea the re-release was on PC, I'll have to try it when I get home 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, guitardz said: I hope it doesn't come to that, because it could easily mean the end of Doom modding. That would be quite the feat when the game is open source and the IWADs aren't going anywhere. 7 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, guitardz said: because it could easily mean the end of Doom modding. This is an absurd conclusion, even if they did pull them from sale. 18 minutes ago, guitardz said: From what I understand those files are locked up as Unity assets in this release and need an extractor to get to them. Unity packages aren't encrypted or encoded. In fact they are no more complex than a WAD file, we'd easily be able to add automatic loading for them. 1 Share this post Link to post
Spectre01 Posted January 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, guitardz said: My biggest fear with this is that the uncensored Steam and GOG versions of this will end up getting pulled off those markets so that this is the only one available. I hope it doesn't come to that, because it could easily mean the end of Doom modding. Even if that were to happen, the original IWADs are so widely circulated and trivial to acquire by anyone using a search engine. It definitely wouldn't be "the death of OG Doom". 10 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Spectre01 said: Even if that were to happen, the original IWADs are so widely circulated and trivial to acquire by anyone using a search engine. It definitely wouldn't be "the death of OG Doom". You don't even need the original IWADs if it came to that, the new ones work with existing mods demonstrably fine. Heck, we know they are making an effort to preserve that for their own add-on support for consoles. Frankly, the only actual concern is multiplayer support, but with the numerous different IWAD versions floating around, even for Final Doom, we are long overdue for automated solutions in Odamex and the like. 0 Share this post Link to post
Allard Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, guitardz said: EDIT: Actually...Why even release this again on PC? There are still buyable options on Steam and GOG that aren't censored to hell. But I guess Bethesda doesn't get profit from those? Actually, Bethesda does get profit from all the DOOM digital purchases. 1 hour ago, guitardz said: The other ports offer the feature of coming with usable IWADS that can be used in a source port. From what I understand those files are locked up as Unity assets in this release and need an extractor to get to them. My biggest fear with this is that the uncensored Steam and GOG versions of this will end up getting pulled off those markets so that this is the only one available. I hope it doesn't come to that, because it could easily mean the end of Doom modding. You get the DosBox versions along with the Unity ports when you buy the classics on the Bethesda.net store. Unfortunately, those happen to be the BFG IWADs, but they are moddable. 2 Share this post Link to post
Nevander Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Edward850 said: And "censored to hell" is a silly hill to die on, Nazi iconography is blatantly not important to the game. Completely disagree. Wolfenstein and Grosse were iconic as secret levels in Doom 2. To correctly live up to the purpose, they must remain intact. This means textures and WolfSS guards must remain. That's censorship, and it's rediculous to do in the first place. I don't care what your "professional objectively correct" opinion is. 1 hour ago, guitardz said: My biggest fear with this is that the uncensored Steam and GOG versions of this will end up getting pulled off those markets so that this is the only one available. Same here. Any time there's a new release, Valve loves to pull the original versions from the store. Pisses me off big time because the originals are pretty much always superior products. 16 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nevander said: Valve loves to pull the original versions from the store. Valve don't touch other people's games unless they are expressly required to intervene in a situation where a publisher can't. 7 minutes ago, Nevander said: That's censorship No. It's not censorship when you do something under your own power, which Bethesda AND id Software AND @sponge objectively did. They didn't have to make a new version of Doom2, they didn't have to decide to sell the game in Germany, they didn't have to decide to make one global version. They didn't have to decide to edit the content the way they did. They chose all of these things exactly and entirely under their own power. 5 Share this post Link to post
Get Phobo Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edward850 said: Nuts wasn't even stable in vanilla Doom. That's nothing new at all. That's my whole point. Why release something that gets crashed by a custom map? They could, and should, have reworked the code a bit more. It's ridiculous. Only one thing that's good is that horizontal weapon selection menu. That was a nifty idea. Saw it on an LP. We should get that for (G)ZDoom. 2 Share this post Link to post
VanaheimRanger Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Allard said: You get the DosBox versions along with the Unity ports when you buy the classics on the Bethesda.net store. Unfortunately, those happen to be the BFG IWADs, but they are moddable. At least that is something, I was unaware they give you those versions as well. 0 Share this post Link to post
Linguica Posted January 10, 2020 I am tired of the OMG CENSORSHIP arguments in these threads. Do you honestly think Bethesda did it to personally annoy you, or do you think they did it to satisfy international legal requirements and make life easier by not supporting multiple SKUs? The original IWADs exist and are not going to magically disappear. No one is going to break into your house and take your precious Hitler away from you. Anyone suggesting that the existence of a new IWAD nullifies the old IWAD has no idea what they are talking about. 47 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Get Phobo said: That's my whole point. Why release something that gets crashed by a custom map? That's a fairly unrealistic ideal for how Doom and Doom modding works. Just because GZDoom runs everything, that doesn't mean the base code can, and in some cases is ever approachable to the concept. Modding by nature is going to exceed some fairly stringent requirements when you've had 20+ years to modify the source, you can't expect a new port using the vanilla code to somehow magically run every mod. Yes that include nuts.wad, a mod deliberately designed to bring the engine far and beyond any sane limit. 1 Share this post Link to post
Boaby Kenobi Posted January 11, 2020 I like to play the Doom games on Steam for nostalgia giggles sometimes but I mostly play using Z-Doom. I also have digital copies of Doom & Doom II on my XB360 and those games are also on a copy of Doom 3 BFG Edition so there's no reason for me to get them again. I'll definitely be waiting to see how the re-release of Doom 64 turns out before getting that. 0 Share this post Link to post
unerxai Posted January 11, 2020 I hope this new port gets released on Steam as well, with achievements, that'd be cool. 2 hours ago, Linguica said: No one is going to break into your house and take your precious Hitler away from you. Okay, this is epic. 2 Share this post Link to post
Nevander Posted January 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Edward850 said: They chose all of these things exactly and entirely under their own power. Then why? Why do that. It's a pointless change and only serves to annoy people. 1 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nevander said: Then why? Why do that. It's a pointless change and only serves to annoy people. 3 hours ago, Linguica said: Do you honestly think Bethesda did it to personally annoy you, or do you think they did it to satisfy international legal requirements and make life easier by not supporting multiple SKUs? 4 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted January 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Nevander said: Then why? Because they wanted one global version which they could also sell in Germany. That's the damn point. 5 Share this post Link to post
qweqioweuo123 Posted January 11, 2020 7 hours ago, deepthaw said: Doom originally topped at out 35fps for the entire world, because that's how the internal engine kept time. The 60fps update means rendering is no longer tied to that internal timekeeping. Animations are the same, but view changes and movement through space will appear smoother thanks to interpolation. source ports uncapped 35fps years ago i wonder whats the point of this rerelease 3 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, qweqioweuo123 said: source ports uncapped 35fps years ago i wonder whats the point of this rerelease Ah yes, all those uncapped 60FPS source ports with add-on support you could get on... *checks list*... Xbox One. 3 Share this post Link to post
Nevander Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said: Because they wanted one global version which they could also sell in Germany. That's the damn point. So then the real problem is Germany being anal about Nazi imagery? Something that happened nearly 100 years ago now. So because of that, and them wanting a "global" version, everyone gets the same stripped down version? That's hardly fair to everyone else who wants the original experience. We just have to accept that? It's frustrating. 1 Share this post Link to post