Doom and Doom II 2020 re-release

[Fayonetta]

I have them on PS4. It's good, so far. Brought them when I brought Doom 2016 Slayers Collection. I think they count

[Edward850]

4 hours ago, Nevander said:

EDIT: I just want to add, I'm not stupid despite some of you maybe thinking so. To tell the truth, I'm just being difficult. After making this post and continuing to drag this out I know it's a pointless exercise. I still stand by my beliefs and hate the changes but there's nothing that I can do about it. Just thought you guys should hear this from me so you don't hate my guts or something.

Deliberate antagonistic posting ("I'm just being difficult" is what you decided to phrase it as) is what makes us annoyed with you, not your beliefs.

[Swalzi]

Perdition's Gate needs to be an add-on in a further update. I just played map31 and it blew my mind on how cool it is. I can't believe it took me until 2020 to play this megawad.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

33 minutes ago, Swalzi said:

Perdition's Gate needs to be an add-on in a further update. I just played map31 and it blew my mind on how cool it is. I can't believe it took me until 2020 to play this megawad.

Spoiler

Don't forget Hell2Pay

 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

So basically, Dwars (whose popularity is rising thanks to his Doom and Heretic analysis) made a video about the new PC (source?) port. It's a pretty good video to watch, but the comments are kind of trash. (basically mocking Bethesda/new id's efforts of this new port)

Spoiler

 

 

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, Edward850 said:

Deliberate antagonistic posting ("I'm just being difficult" is what you decided to phrase it as) is what makes us annoyed with you, not your beliefs.

I know, and I don't mean to be a dickhead on purpose. Things like this that rile me up can aggravate me to the point where I choose to go on and on about it despite my better judgment to do so. I find it hard to accept change, especially if it's something I care about.

[Spectre01]

4 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

It's a pretty good video to watch, but the comments are kind of trash. (basically mocking Bethesda/new id's efforts of this new port)

I assume most of them are from PC players, for whom this new release doesn't do much that ports haven't already done for years. It's not like it's an HD remaster, running on a new engine that's fully 3D, or any other major changes PC players could get excited about. "It's better than DOSBOX" isn't exactly a big deal.

[MFG38]

15 hours ago, Allard said:

Consider this:

Most big companies don't even look towards boomer shooters. Warner Bros. owns the Blood IP: I doubt we'll be seeing Caleb in a new game any time soon. All Gearbox can offer with Duke Nukem is cameos in other games. This is not the most popular genre outside of its community, the new wave of boomer shooters are all indie. Bethesda on the other hand? Bethesda scrapped DOOM 4 because it was "too Call of Duty" and ordered id to start over, which ended up resulting in DOOM '16. Now we're expecting a big budget AAA sequel to that game which I'm cautiously optimistic about. The series also gets rereleases on consoles so that no matter what your preferred platform is, you could always get your DOOM fix, be it the high-speed rush of DOOM 1, non-stop slaughter of DOOM 2 or the dark corridors of DOOM 3. Are those rereleases perfect? Well, no, but at the same time, they are far more than id was willing to give us back when they were indie. Hell, I always thought that such a rerelease is long overdue for the PC platform as well, given that games like Duke3D or Strife got them. Of course you can just use a source port, but an easy out-of-the-box solution is always a good thing, especially for the newbies, provided that it doesn't take away the source port option. Not to mention that the constant publicity they get coupled with the games' availability ends up bringing more of said newbies to the community, which is always great.

And, I gotta be honest... given the treatment their other franchises have gotten (TES haven't seen a mainline game for 8+ years now, Dishonored is dead, Prey is stillborn, Wolfenstein got bad, Quake is nonexistent, Fallout is a disaster), I'd say DOOM is the one franchise Bethesda respects the most. Again, are they perfect about it? No, but they are clearly trying, which is evident in how this particular version has gotten from being subpar to the best console version of DOOM.

 

Alright, yeah, can't argue with that.

 

8 hours ago, guitardz said:

this release comes with DOSBox versions with usable IWADS intact as well.

 

They're not fully intact. The crosses on Stimpacks and Medikits are green instead of red and Doom 2's secret levels are still partially censored, but that's as far as the changes go in those versions to my understanding.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

3 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

I assume most of them are from PC players, for whom this new release doesn't do much that ports haven't already done for years. It's not like it's an HD remaster, running on a new engine that's fully 3D, or any other major changes PC players could get excited about. "It's better than DOSBOX" isn't exactly a big deal.

Yeah, but mocking the port developers (and Bethesda) is still pretty stupid, especially considering the amount of contents the new id has given us and what Allard has said in this thread.

 

[Gez]

11 hours ago, guitardz said:

It was a worst case scenario thought that I posted before someone told me that this release comes with DOSBox versions with usable IWADS intact as well.

But even then. There's Freedoom. There's Hacx. There's Chex Quest. There's Harmony. There's Heretic, Hexen, and Strife. There's the Adventures of Square and Hedon and who knows what else.

[Lila Feuer]

Yo HacX would be cool not gonna lie.

E: Although that uses DeHackEd so maybe not, damn.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

13 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

Yo HacX would be cool not gonna lie.

E: Although that uses DeHackEd so maybe not, damn.

With this rate, I think that Dehacked support is a probability.

[Moustachio]

I'm just annoyed at the half-assedness of the remastering being done here. In my opinion, if it's worth remastering a game, it's worth fixing all the parts of the game that have not aged well on top of maintaining all the original features.

 

I know that's not how it goes for one reason or another, but I think that would still be a good standard.

 

This is the first of the ports that have actually improved since the last one I played (Doom Classic on both the PS3 and 360), but it still blows my mind how it took this long for anyone to even attempt a fix at the shitty super shotgun sound glitch or the randomized sound pitching. Certainly, someone at id must play these ports and realize that it doesn't feel like the original game.

[Cacodemon345]

I have seen the comments section of that video TheNoob_Gamer posted:

Spoiler

Honestly looks like stupid people.

 

[ZeroTheEro]

I buy Doom for the second time because I want to play it on the go. Bethesda.net login joke is old, rotten and irrelevant. Game needs to be able to be sold all over the world including Germany, so that's why we're getting the Staatmeister back.

 

those commenters can suck my toes.

[ENEMY!!!]

Germany has recently reclassified video games into the same category as films rather than dismissing them as toys, meaning that Nazi imagery in games such as Wolfenstein and Doom can potentially pass if there is an artistic case for them or if the game takes an anti-Nazi stance (which helps the cause of Wolfenstein and Doom as in both cases you shoot the Nazis):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45142651

This addresses what I saw as the main bone of contention with the German laws on the matter back when video games were classified as toys.

 

So it's quite possible that Bethesda could release the game with all of the Nazi imagery intact, but they'd be less likely to be able to by-pass the red cross issue.  Most likely they just played it safe in both cases.

 

As for the censorship issue, I'd see the loss of the Nazi/Wolfenstein references as a big deal if it was difficult to get the original IWADS (as is the case with censorship of some of the old cartoons and not being able to get uncensored versions of them) but for as long as you can easily get the original games off Steam or GOG.com it isn't a big issue.  A bigger beef of mine would be the out-of-the-box disabling of cheat codes, which I am guessing is related to Steam Achievements, but it's not hard to do a system where cheat codes disable achievements.

Edited January 13, 2020 by ENEMY!!!

[Allard]

33 minutes ago, ENEMY!!! said:

I'd see the loss of the Nazi/Wolfenstein references as a big deal

Can we really consider it a loss if the new version is clearly recognizable as altered Wolfenstein stuff? It's one thing when everything's scrubbed away in a rather unceremonious manner like in BFG, but here it's another matter entirely, IMO.

33 minutes ago, ENEMY!!! said:

A bigger beef of mine would be the out-of-the-box disabling of cheat codes, which I am guessing is related to Steam Achievements, but it's not hard to do a system where cheat codes disable achievements.

The typed cheats do not work, but there's a cheat menu accessible from the start instead.

Spoiler

 

No warp cheat, but seeing as there's a level select available from the main menu, there's no need for one.

 

Unrelated, but a pistol start option would be cool.

[Graf Zahl]

2 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

I have seen the comments section of that video TheNoob_Gamer posted: 

  Hide contents

 

Honestly looks like stupid people.

 

 

Seems they are a lot more grounded than some people here who are willing to pay for something they already own, just to get an inferior engine along with it.

[seed]

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

Seems they are a lot more grounded than some people here who are willing to pay for something they already own, just to get an inferior engine along with it.

 

Nah some of them are definitely idiots, particularly those "hurr durr Bethesda released this so they can take down the OG versions on Steam and GOG just like GB did with Duke".

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with buying it again just to play it with friends on different platforms either. Buying it again serves no purpose for me, but maybe it does for others.

[Edward850]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Seems they are a lot more grounded than some people here who are willing to pay for something they already own, just to get an inferior engine along with it.

Ah yes, inferior to all those engines that provide... *checks notes*... Splitscreen, on demand add-on support and is on consoles.

[kaleb.]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

Seems they are a lot more grounded than some people here who are willing to pay for something they already own, just to get an inferior engine along with it.

they are not inferior on consoles. every console homebrew port of doom is much worse than this new port.

[Nevander]

3 hours ago, seed said:

Nah some of them are definitely idiots, particularly those "hurr durr Bethesda released this so they can take down the OG versions on Steam and GOG just like GB did with Duke".

Sometimes this is a legitimate concern though, it's happened several times with different games on Steam. I'm not saying that it will happen to the OG classic Doom versions but it's in the realm of possibility.

 

Some examples...

• Duke Nukem Megaton taken off after World Tour (as mentioned)
• Metro 2033 and Last Light taken off after Redux releases
• Dead Island and Riptide taken off after Definitive Edition release
• Blood: One Unit Whole Blood taken off after Blood Fresh Supply

 

I'm sure there's more than this.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Nevander

[TheNoob_Gamer]

10 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Blood: One Unit Whole Blood taken off after Blood Fresh Supply

 

IIRC you still get the original DOS version for free like in System Shock 1's case.

In some special cases publishers may also giveaway the original versions (Metro 2033)

[Boaby Kenobi]

There's the sharware version of Blood which runs nicely on DB. I use N-Blood using the GOG version of One Unit Whole Blood.

[Uni]

 

3 hours ago, Nevander said:

Duke Nukem Megaton taken off after World Tour (as mentioned)

3 hours ago, Nevander said:

Blood: One Unit Whole Blood taken off after Blood Fresh Supply

 

I didn't even notice that. Luckily, I already had those before so I'm glad I get to keep them.

 

On topic, while this release doesn't mean anything to me, I'm happy they are doing this. More exposure and user-friendly accessibility to Doom is always great and it's going to bring more folks to the community which is fantastic. I really don't mind the little changes they made to the game so it can be globally available. Those are so small and generally cosmetic and doesn't hurt the core gameplay itself which is the most important. Pretty cool stuff!

 

 

[Lila Feuer]

4 hours ago, Nevander said:

Some examples...

• Duke Nukem Megaton taken off after World Tour (as mentioned)
• Metro 2033 and Last Light taken off after Redux releases
• Dead Island and Riptide taken off after Definitive Edition release
• Blood: One Unit Whole Blood taken off after Blood Fresh Supply

 

I'm sure there's more than this.

You can still get the original Doom 3 and RoE, albeit only on Steam for some reason. I think DOS Doom will be fine.

[CyberDreams]

On 1/11/2020 at 1:58 PM, Allard said:

The series also gets rereleases on consoles so that no matter what your preferred platform is, you could always get your DOOM fix, be it the high-speed rush of DOOM 1, non-stop slaughter of DOOM 2 or the dark corridors of DOOM 3. Are those rereleases perfect? Well, no, but at the same time, they are far more than id was willing to give us back when they were indie.

I agree with everything else that you said in your post except for this. If you are talking about how the older id Software never ported Doom to consoles ect. then i don't agree. If you mean something else entirely and i'm just not getting it, than i apologize for not understanding lol. In the 90's there were a TON of Doom ports. Now none of them were 1:1 obviously due to technical reasons but still. As for PC ports, Doom95 and Doom for Macintosh are the only ones i know that are official (if those even count). Later on they had Doom for original Xbox and then X360/PS3 although i'm not sure if they were "indie" anymore by that point. I just wanted to state my opinions on that little matter lol ;)

 

On 1/11/2020 at 3:28 PM, AlexMax said:

You'd be surprised by the number of people whose first exposure to DOOM was through a console port.  Not everybody got their start playing the DOS version or through a PC source port., some players got their start playing the 32X version, Playstation version, SNES version, you name it.  I'm sure if you search Doomworld you'll find threads where community members tell their first experience playing the game, and a good number of them mention a console port as their first exposure.

True. I'm one of them. Doom 64 for me and then i played the Doom 1 and 2 via Doom 3 Collector's Edition on Xbox.

 

10 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

I have seen the comments section of that video TheNoob_Gamer posted:

  Reveal hidden contents

Honestly looks like stupid people.

 

The sad part is, is that Dwars (the guy that made the video) liked/favorited all of those comments. And i actually liked that video too...

[Allard]

13 minutes ago, CyberDreams said:

I agree with everything else that you said in your post except for this. If you are talking about how the older id Software never ported Doom to consoles ect. then i don't agree. If you mean something else entirely and i'm just not getting it, than i apologize for not understanding lol. In the 90's there were a TON of Doom ports. Now none of them were 1:1 obviously due to technical reasons but still. As for PC ports, Doom95 and Doom for Macintosh are the only ones i know that are official (if those even count). Later on they had Doom for original Xbox and then X360/PS3 although i'm not sure if they were "indie" anymore by that point. I just wanted to state my opinions on that little matter lol ;)

I'm talking about stuff like the entire id back catalogue being unceremoniously dumped on Steam in a very poor state, not updated in any way, badly set up to the point of source ports being mandatory, no music in Q1-Q2, no Portal of Praevus (I know Activision owns that and Heretic II, but... you know) and all that jazz. 

Also, Doom was a no-show on Playstation systems from 1995 to 2012 and Classic Complete was the first time Final Doom and Master Levels got fully fledged uncompromised console versions. 

[CyberDreams]

6 hours ago, Allard said:

I'm talking about stuff like the entire id back catalogue being unceremoniously dumped on Steam in a very poor state, not updated in any way, badly set up to the point of source ports being mandatory, no music in Q1-Q2, no Portal of Praevus (I know Activision owns that and Heretic II, but... you know) and all that jazz. 

Also, Doom was a no-show on Playstation systems from 1995 to 2012 and Classic Complete was the first time Final Doom and Master Levels got fully fledged uncompromised console versions. 

Ahh, well i don't really know much about the early Steam era as i didn't start using Steam until like 2012 or so, but i do agree that they were just dumped pretty poorly. TBH i was thinking more classic id, as well as console ports. To my knowledge there still isn't any music being sold with Q1-Q2 sadly.

 

You probably already know this but w/e:

 

PS1 Doom came out in 1995. Final Doom for PS1 came out in 1996 (i know that they aren't 1:1 ports btw). By the time that Doom 3 came out, it was all about Doom 3 imo. Since the Xbox was more powerful it could run Doom 3 (well a port of it) unlike the PS2 and i guess as a bonus incencentive with the Limited Collector's Edition id Software decided to put Doom 1 & 2 on it. No idea why. Maybe so newbies to the franchise could experience "where it all began". Then Doom 1/2 + Master Levels were released a year later as a bonus with the expansion pack "Resurrection of Evil" on Xbox as well.

 

I guess there wasn't any point in just releasing Doom and II on PS2 without Doom 3 as that would seem kinda strange. People might wonder where Doom 3 was. If anything, you could just play PS1 Doom/Final Doom on PS2 ;)

 

Also by 2009, Zenimax bought id Software so they weren't indie anymore by that time. PS3 eventually got Doom 1/2/Master Levels and Final Doom. X360 never got Final Doom. Instead it got No Rest for the Living, a brand new episode by Nerve Software.

 

So yeah, Playstation got left out for quite a long time but it did have "ports" in the 90's. Xbox was new when Doom 3 came out (well sort of) and more powerful than what Sony and Nintendo were offering so maybe that's Xbox got ports instead? Idk. Exclusivity deal maybe? Easier to program for? Hell if i know. Things are good now though with these newer ports but 90's id seemed pretty cool too imo, just like the new id Software :)

Edited January 14, 2020 by CyberDreams : spelling errors, fixing some "wordage"

[Dwars]

2 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

The sad part is, is that Dwars (the guy that made the video) liked/favorited all of those comments. And i actually liked that video too...

My hearts are typically not endorsements of comments, merely me signaling that I've viewed the comment.

 

I know the comments section in my video is a bit harsh, but that's simply the nature of YouTube. A lot of folks are still jaded from Bethesda's previous flub-ups too, so their cynicism regarding this port isn't surprising. I don't blame them too much for the cynicism regarding this port being put on the PC though, since we've been spoiled greatly with the history of unofficial source ports on the PC that are still superior to this one's output in a number of ways. Not to mention the fact that the IWADs included with the 'original' versions are not all that original. I still hope that they fix the IWADs of these 'original' versions to resemble the ones that came with the port versions if they can't actually include the real original IWADs. What these IWADs are now make me think that the inclusion of them was an afterthought.

 

I personally do appreciate that this port is giving new players (albeit mostly on the console) an easy to set up way to play the game with modern QoL features like higher framerates and whatnot, as well as the inclusion of splitscreen and addons for the console/mobile players who would otherwise never get a chance to play them. I hope it just gets even better.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Dwars