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Doom and Doom II 2020 re-release

Linguica

Any complaints about purported "censorship" of the new IWADs will be removed because they are annoying and off topic. The real censorship is in this thread!

Message added by Linguica

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48 minutes ago, Dwars said:

My hearts are typically not endorsements of comments, merely me signaling that I've viewed the comment.

That's not what the system reflects though, nor is it how commonly understood. You can't just make up your own rules in language and communication and expect everyone else to automatically understand, that's just simply not how it works at all. 

 

Despite what your intentions are, what you are actually signalling is that you agree with the comments. Hence @CyberDreams comment.

Edited by Edward850

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An understandable point of view, though I think that apparent signaling can get kinda muddled when I'm hearting contradictory comments. I would hope that would let people try to figure out why I do it, which should hopefully lead them to my 'About' page where I clarify what they mean on my channel. I try my best to keep my actual opinions exclusive to the videos themselves or replies I make to some of these comments. I apologize if my weird system causes confusion, but it's become a force of habit that I doubt I can stop even if I tried at this point.

 

To further clarify my thoughts on the port though, I eagerly look forward to see where it goes in the future. I also look forward to seeing what kind of curation it'll have in the coming months, and perhaps most exciting of all - what new features it may or may not have.

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Just to clarify here, I’ve seen many examples of obviously sarcastic hearting/pinning on YouTube. While it generally implies agreement, most regular YouTube users know there are exceptions to that system. It’s not YouTube exclusive either, I’ve SoulSphere’d a number of comments on Doomworld that I appreciated but didn’t necessarily agree with. This is somewhat common AFAIK.

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10 hours ago, Nevander said:

Sometimes this is a legitimate concern though, it's happened several times with different games on Steam. I'm not saying that it will happen to the OG classic Doom versions but it's in the realm of possibility.

 

Some examples...

  • Duke Nukem Megaton taken off after World Tour (as mentioned)
  • Metro 2033 and Last Light taken off after Redux releases
  • Dead Island and Riptide taken off after Definitive Edition release
  • Blood: One Unit Whole Blood taken off after Blood Fresh Supply

 

I'm sure there's more than this.

 

Blood was not taken down. OUWB is still sold separately on Steam, and on GOG it ships with Fresh Supply.

 

Megaton is not a good example, because there's almost 100% legal reasons at play for taking it down once the rights to Duke were transferred to Gearbox from 3DR, it had to be replaced with something else.

 

The Metro releases... I don't think there's a good reason have them taken down (also wasn't the OG 2033 still available?). Another good example would be Skyrim Legendary Edition and the original 32-bit version, once Special Edition came out it replaced both versions permanently, in addition to giving them for free on PC for the owners of those versions.

 

Either way, in the case of Doom there's virtually no good reason for doing that, I think everyone realizes it's best for them not to do something so supremely stupid, so in this case, it is mostly an unfounded fear.

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"Legal reasons" should not matter to me as a consumer. People here are concerned, and their concerns are justified. Giving a legal explanation does not alleviate the concerns, it excuses bad behavior.

 

I agree that in this case, the concerns are less severe than in other cases, but outright brushing them off is stupid.

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4 hours ago, Dwars said:

My hearts are typically not endorsements of comments, merely me signaling that I've viewed the comment.

 

I know the comments section in my video is a bit harsh, but that's simply the nature of YouTube. A lot of folks are still jaded from Bethesda's previous flub-ups too, so their cynicism regarding this port isn't surprising. I don't blame them too much for the cynicism regarding this port being put on the PC though, since we've been spoiled greatly with the history of unofficial source ports on the PC that are still superior to this one's output in a number of ways. Not to mention the fact that the IWADs included with the 'original' versions are not all that original. I still hope that they fix the IWADs of these 'original' versions to resemble the ones that came with the port versions if they can't actually include the real original IWADs. What these IWADs are now make me think that the inclusion of them was an afterthought.

 

I personally do appreciate that this port is giving new players (albeit mostly on the console) an easy to set up way to play the game with modern QoL features like higher framerates and whatnot, as well as the inclusion of splitscreen and addons for the console/mobile players who would otherwise never get a chance to play them. I hope it just gets even better.

 

4 hours ago, Dwars said:

An understandable point of view, though I think that apparent signaling can get kinda muddled when I'm hearting contradictory comments. I would hope that would let people try to figure out why I do it, which should hopefully lead them to my 'About' page where I clarify what they mean on my channel. I try my best to keep my actual opinions exclusive to the videos themselves or replies I make to some of these comments. I apologize if my weird system causes confusion, but it's become a force of habit that I doubt I can stop even if I tried at this point.

 

To further clarify my thoughts on the port though, I eagerly look forward to see where it goes in the future. I also look forward to seeing what kind of curation it'll have in the coming months, and perhaps most exciting of all - what new features it may or may not have.

Ahh i understand now. Sorry to call you out. I didn't mean too. I mean, i already subbed to your channel after watching a few of your vids and just because you favorited/liked a few comments that i maybe didn't like (although i understand why now) isn't going to make me change my mind about the fact that i still like your vids :)

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54 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Blood was not taken down. OUWB is still sold separately on Steam

Not anymore. They took it down in September. 

 

 

Anyhow, OG DOOM 3 is still on Steam and doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so there's also that precedent. 

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12 minutes ago, Allard said:

Not anymore. They took it down in September. 

 

I had to check this for myself to believe it. Holy shit, you re right, it s gone.

 

Well, I hope the extras were added to FS.

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That won't help source port users much. Blood: FS uses a different video format for its movies which currently is not supported by any source port - and it doesn't include the originals. So if you want to play the full game with anything but the FS engine you have to get them from more questionable sources.

 

This is actually the bigger danger with re-releases: Some of the improvements may actually turn out to be regressions. As long as they come with all the original data I have no problems with it.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

That won't help source port users much. Blood: FS uses a different video format for its movies which currently is not supported by any source port - and it doesn't include the originals. So if you want to play the full game with anything but the FS engine you have to get them from more questionable sources.

 

Nothing at all? None of the DOS extras were added back to it now that OUWB is gone? I have not checked FS in a long time so I am not aware whether it saw further changes or addition after the final patch or not.

 

56 minutes ago, LeoNatan said:

"Legal reasons" should not matter to me as a consumer. People here are concerned, and their concerns are justified. Giving a legal explanation does not alleviate the concerns, it excuses bad behavior.

 

I agree that in this case, the concerns are less severe than in other cases, but outright brushing them off is stupid.

 

Agreed.

 

However, in this case, there is no real reason to be worried - see Doom 3 for instance, did they take down the OG version once the BFG Edition came out? No? I thought so too. If they didn't do it with D3 there's even less reason to do it with classic Doom. As about "it should not matter to me as a consumer" - well if you already got the game it definitely won't.

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@seed I, personally, am not really worried in any case. If all else fails, I can always find the exact version I want on a warez site. I don't have moral qualms, but I can understand why others would have problems with this approach and not consider it viable.

The D3/BFG comparison is not an apt one. Completely different management, completely different mindset. It's like saying "Why would EA add microtransactions in FIFA 20? There were none in FIFA 98."

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41 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Nothing at all? None of the DOS extras were added back to it now that OUWB is gone? I have not checked FS in a long time so I am not aware whether it saw further changes or addition after the final patch or not. 

 

 

What extras? I own an old CD of it, the extras on it were advertisement stuff without any real value.

 

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19 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

What extras? I own an old CD of it, the extras on it were advertisement stuff without any real value.

 

No, by extras I mean the DOS stuff OUWB had (which is also required by ports), but FS was missing.

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15 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

Can you e a bit more specific? I have no idea which parts you are talking about.

 

Well for one, you just mentioned the original cutscenes which are missing in FS - they're in a different format currently unsupported by ports.

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Silly opinion by a silly person.

As of now, if i'm not wrong, there wasn't any other way to play Doom ''officially'' in modern PC. DOSbox is not an official way, as DOSBox, if i remember right, its an independent program that emulates original DOS. So, as of now, every ''new'' player who wants to experience Doom needed to rely on a very frustrating maneuver to play an old game. I don't mention source ports, because, i don't know if i'm right, but the mainstream gamers don't know what the hell is a source port, so thats a no at first chance.


If this ''new and official'' port led people to experience Doom in the first try, and also, let them, take a bite of what the modding community had made along the years, i think that this port, that i don't had the pleasure to try so far, its a good example of a company really caring for their fans around the world.
Come on, Guys! Every megawad made thus far was made with one only reason: be enjoyed. And this port, althought not perfect, open that possibility to new players.

My sole reason to post here, is that i tried for years to introduce a friend to experience Doom, but he dislikes everything that ''emulates ilegally'' the original game. And a yesterday, he called me and gives me a really neat surprise: he bought this port, and he is really enjoying Doom, and after i showed him some perfect vanilla megawads like Eternal Doom, Memento Mori 2, Scythe and Alien Vendetta, and after a long talk about why and how the Doom community started, he is now more open to the idea of a Source port, but only if it not deviates soo much from the original source.
Its a hell of improvement to me.
And he is a fan of DoomRetro right now :D

And this kind of experience could be happening right now in different places, thus giving birth to new Doom players and new memebers of the community.

Its a perfect port? no. It work for the inexperienced/new player? Yes! This open a possibility to try the work of this long lasting community? Yes!
would the experienced players choose this port for playing? no


The odds are obvious i think.
Also, i was checking the official bethesda page, and they said that they will try to contact some of the doom community modders to try to port their wads for easy access as new downloadable.
In some way, that could be interpreted as ''officializing'' some of the most beloved megawads of the community as part of the Doom Legacy.

That made my day, Guys!

EDIT: in respect of the censorship... my friend know what a nazi is, he is jewish, so... he knows. So, when he saw the new graphics, he laughed a lot by how they didn't even try to make it different or hide it, Bethesda just removed the moustache and changed the swastika (that for knowing pleasure, is a symbol of good luck in the hindu religion). He tought it was some kind of joke trying to show a fascist regime with the most recognizable ''EVIL'' face in the world, being poked around.
Dragon Ball Z did the same thing in the movie Fusion! And nobody said anything (as far as i searched), about it.
What i try to say, its that he doesn't even care, and his grandfather was killed during the fascist regime. He got reasons to be offended, but he wasn't at all.
Maybe not everybody will be like my friend, but i think that the step needed to made this game appreciated by the whole world is going in the right direction.

Edited by P41R47

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26 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Silly opinion by a silly person.

As of now, if i'm not wrong, there wasn't any other way to play Doom ''officially'' in modern PC. DOSbox is not an official way, as DOSBox, if i remember right, its an independent program that emulates original DOS. So, as of now, every ''new'' player who wants to experience Doom needed to rely on a very frustrating maneuver to play an old game. I don't mention source ports, because, i don't know if i'm right, but the mainstream gamers don't know what the hell is a source port, so thats a no at first chance.

Not silly at all. Packing the game with DOSBox and nothing else on all the digital stores has always struck me as ultra-stupid. I say this as a big fan of DOSBox.

 

Most video game players aren’t hardcore computer nerds from the early 90’s, which is basically a prerequisite to using and enjoying DOSBox. Giving them an emulator where an amount of so-called computer wizardry is required is totally bonkers - just being realistic, 90% of modern PC users are going to look at you like you have 2 heads if you start talking to them about “mounting drives” and “cd’ing to c:\doom” and whatever else. 

 

Chocolate Doom should have been recognised as legitimate and bundled as part of every digital download years and years ago. It’s cross platform and is as close to 1:1 with the “legitimate” Vanilla Doom experience as you can possibly expect.

 

In a certain sense, Chocolate Doom on a modern PC is arguably more accurate to “the experience” than using DOSBox, because the vast majority of 90’s Doomers were using Win 3.1 / Win95 where playing DOOM.EXE was as simple as double-clicking it. Exiting to DOS to play games was a rare requirement as most DOS programs ran just fine in Winbloze back then.

 

Anyway.. this is just a long winded way of me saying I agree - modern PC’s have been in desperate need of an ‘officially approved’ way to play Classic Doom out of the box with no antiquated skills necessary.

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8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Anyway.. this is just a long winded way of me saying I agree - modern PC’s have been in desperate need of an ‘officially approved’ way to play Classic Doom out of the box with no antiquated skills necessary.

That I think we can all agree on. First thing I do with old games is look for source ports so I can avoid DOSBox. I don't hate DOSBox, but I'd much rather have a modernized port that just works.

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Hello!

I have problems with the windows PC Unity version of Ultimate DooM and DooM II, bought with the bethesda.net launcher.

The dosbox versions of both of them work. The unity version of DooM 3 is playable without problems.

But the unity versions of Ultimate DooM and DooM II have problems.

In both cases i can launch the game software, see the Bethesda and Nerve Logos, but when the Game Menue appears, i can not navigate with the up and down cursors on my keyboard in it, but can select the menue entries with the mouse cursor. I can enter the keyboard remapping menue in the options menue and change things there, but that does not matter. When i try to enter the game by selecting the episode and difficulty level, the game shows me the

DMENUPIC screen and then is nothing any more possible. I can't go back to the menue but also don't enter the level. The same happens, when i select the entry "addons" in the main menue. When i select the menue entry "Bethesda.net", the skulls on the both sides of it stand for a moment in flames and then nothing happens, but i stay in the main menue.

I wrote this to the Bethesda support and they recommended to update the hardware drivers and windows version, but that did not help. The unity version of DooM 3 is playable without problems by the way.

Has anybody an idea, how to make the unity version play on pc?

 

Greetins

Funduke

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52 minutes ago, funduke said:

The unity version of DooM 3 is playable without problems.

There is no such thing as a Unity version of Doom3. 

 

As for the rest of your problem, it seems fairly unique to you. Linguica somehow has a problem where the Doom module seems to not function at all, though that sounds slightly different? Does the demo loop work at all? You didn't actually say. The demos are still supposed to be there, it may be in Unity but it's still running Doom's original engine.

 

Additional curiosity, are you running 32bit or 64bit windows? 

Edited by Edward850

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17 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Silly opinion by a silly person.

As of now, if i'm not wrong, there wasn't any other way to play Doom ''officially'' in modern PC. DOSbox is not an official way, as DOSBox, if i remember right, its an independent program that emulates original DOS. 


You can install FreeDOS on your PC, and try running original doom on it. Should work.

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45 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

There is no such thing as a Unity version of Doom3. 

 

As for the rest of your problem, it seems fairly unique to you. Linguica somehow has a problem where the Doom module seems to not function at all, though that sounds slightly different? Does the demo loop work at all? You didn't actually say. The demos are still supposed to be there, it may be in Unity but it's still running Doom's original engine.

 

Additional curiosity, are you running 32bit or 64bit windows? 

 

- The unity version of DooM 3 is here: https://bethesda.net/en/store/product/DO3GNGPCBG01

- There is no demo loop, the possible interaction stops after the selection of the difficulty level.

- It is 64bit.

 

Greetings

Funduke

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25 minutes ago, funduke said:

 

- The unity version of DooM 3 is here: https://bethesda.net/en/store/product/DO3GNGPCBG01

- There is no demo loop, the possible interaction stops after the selection of the difficulty level.

- It is 64bit.

 

Greetings

Funduke

It's not a Unity version. It's just the BFG Edition without Doom 1 and 2. 

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11 minutes ago, Allard said:

It's not a Unity version. It's just the BFG Edition without Doom 1 and 2. 

 

I haven't been aware of that.

Thanks for the info.

 

Greetings

Funduke

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41 minutes ago, funduke said:

- There is no demo loop, the possible interaction stops after the selection of the difficulty level.

- It is 64bit.

 

Greetings

Funduke

Strange guess it is exactly Linguicas issue, @sponge might want to look at this if he can get a chance and this gets his attention. He may ask you for some log files. 

41 minutes ago, funduke said:

The unity version of DooM 3 is here:

The QI claxon wouldn't be sufficient for this. There is no Unity version of Doom3, whomever told you this was unity has no business telling you anything technical at all. 

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5 hours ago, cybdmn said:


You can install FreeDOS on your PC, and try running original doom on it. Should work.


That the problem, pal. I know i can do that. But the problem here is that, until this new port, there wasn't any ''official'' (not source port) way to play Doom in modern PCs.
Do you think that young gamers have any clue about how to mount drivers, or write adresses in DOS?
Not at all, pal!
They surely can learn how to. But, back in the days of Doom youth, it was as easy as click & play (if you have Doom95), or by writing a little direct access in the DOS start-up to play Doom. But now, with this port, that its not perfect but at least works and can be tweaked, young gamers can try the original Doom experience just by double clicking.
AND BOOM!
Rip and Tear till the end of time! With new members and fans in the community supporting and creating new content for Doom around the world.
 

Do you realice how amazing is that a game that is 27 years old, still have support by their community and by the creators/owners and can be played in a modern PC and almost every gaming plataform out there?
 

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@sponge In case this version is ever brought to Steam/GOG, I have a simple solution to quell the complaints about the censorship and the source ports:
Just lowkey include the original unaltered IWADs with the PC download as an unadvertised extra. Since they are not used by the game and cannot be utilized without the use of a third-party source port, the German laws shouldn't take offense to them. Not the most elegant solution, but it's the simplest and wouldn't cost anything.

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11 minutes ago, Allard said:

but it's the simplest and wouldn't cost anything.

 

Except a potential ban on the German market.

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12 minutes ago, Allard said:

... German laws ...

 

DooM 2, even the uncensored US version, is not on the german index anymore. There shouldn't be any problem with it.

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5 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Except a potential ban on the German market.

Again, that's the thing: the game wouldn't use them, you'd have to download a third-party source port to utilize them. So there's no reason to ban it ("it" being Doom II).

4 minutes ago, funduke said:

 

DooM 2, even the uncensored US version, is not on the german index anymore. There shouldn't be any problem with it.

No, the uncensored US verison is still on the index. Only the Nazi-less versions are off the hook.

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