Biggest mistake for Doom

[doomkr]

Unpopular opinion:

To me biggest mistake have doom is 4th episode of Ultimate doom... In my opinion, wasn't necessary, With Knee-deep in the death, Shores of hell, Inferno and secret levels to episode 1-3 were enought.

To me looks more like an extra.

What ya think?

[BigBoy91]

No love for Thy Flesh Consumed? Yeah, it's a little tedious at times, but it's impressive to see what they did with the original Doom game after Doom 2 was released.

[seed]

You could say it is an extra indeed, but does that make it, say, "filler garbage"? Absolutely not.

 

More Doom is never a bad thing.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Yeah episode 4 is bad but only till E4M3, then it picks up in quality. The final boss level could be spicier with either a new enemy or heck, both spidey AND cybie at the same time.

 

On 1/11/2020 at 9:53 PM, seed said:

More Doom is never a bad thing.

Sigil?

[VanaheimRanger]

1 minute ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Sigil?

Are we saying Sigil is bad?  I haven't played it yet, but I've heard both good and bad about it.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Yup.

[HyperVisor]

Bethesda lel

[HorrorMovieRei]

It's brutally hard in the beginning, but bad? I don't think so. The difficulty is by design, and not out of ineptitude.

 

If we're talking story(lol) I don't think it detracts from the original episodes by tackling more on top. I would be more inclined to agree if it was part of the original release, but it is pretty much just an extra thing. It's like DLC, in the sense that I see it as it's own thing apart from the "main game" that you can choose to play if you want a little more demon slaying action.

Edited January 13, 2020 by HorrorMovieGuy

[Spectre01]

I largely don't care for E4, nor the rabbit meme it helped propagate. It feels like a collection of maps that lack any sort of cohesive theme or sense of place/progression. The lack of an intermission map doesn't help either. 

 

Nevertheless, it's more official content, which is rarely a bad thing. Just remove it from your headcanon if you're not a fan. :P

 

Also, the biggest Doom mistake is infinite height.

[Bauul]

On 1/11/2020 at 1:22 PM, doomkr said:

 To me looks more like an extra.

 

Well, yeah, of course it was. It was a secondary focus for id spearheaded by their publisher who (likely along with Microsoft) saw benefit in a retail release of Doom 1.

 

It was designed as a slice of extra content to give more value to the release of The Ultimate Doom, similar to No Rest For The Living's inclusion in the Xbox 360 release. 

[Pablo_Doom_Guy]

4 hours ago, guitardz said:

Are we saying Sigil is bad?  I haven't played it yet, but I've heard both good and bad about it.

 

Sigil is a great 5th chapter , its hard , and that's why a lot of people complain , it's not that hard if you are used to any regular doom pwad , and if you are playing sigil then you know doom . 

 

1 hour ago, Spectre01 said:

The lack of an intermission map doesn't help either. 

 

there is a thyinterpic wad that adds a cool intermission screen , i coul never make the "you are here" animation work on dosbox , but the image is displayed properly (it was designed for (G)Zdoom i think) 

 

 

[seed]

10 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Sigil?

 

 .

 

No.

[Eurisko]

Nah man , Thy flesh consumed is more DOOM.

 

That ain't a bad thing THAT'S..... a good thing

 

 

[idbeholdME]

I personally am most annoyed by 2 things in vanilla Doom.

 

1) Infinite height. Extremely unintuitive behavior that gets in the way of smooth gameplay a lot.

2) Lost Soul limit. I like my Pain Elemental fertile and willing to have lots and lots of offspring. Not just have it yawn at me when there are too many Lost Souls already.

 

Fortunately, both can be solved through ports.

Edited January 13, 2020 by idbeholdME

[Looper]

Yeah, the lost soul limit is a bit saddening.

[Maximum Matt]

1 hour ago, Eurisko said:

 

*HEADSHOT*

[Gez]

59 minutes ago, idbeholdME said:

2) Lost Soul limit.

Yeah, it's a bit too high, it should be a value like 5 or 3 or 0 IMO.

 

More seriously, though: bad 3D integration. The game's physics and interface are designed like it's still Wolf 3D, with some weird kludges tacked on to compensate. Stuff like having Z-moves be a separate step from XY-moves, not having a look-up/down capability (Heretic proved it could be done without changing how the engine works) compensated by a big vertical autoaim factor, and infinite height collisions for everything except missiles all stem from that fundamental mistake.

[MrGlide]

I really like e4. I also like sigil quite a bit.

[Graf Zahl]

32 minutes ago, Gez said:

Yeah, it's a bit too high, it should be a value like 5 or 3 or 0 IMO.

 

More seriously, though: bad 3D integration. The game's physics and interface are designed like it's still Wolf 3D, with some weird kludges tacked on to compensate. Stuff like having Z-moves be a separate step from XY-moves, not having a look-up/down capability (Heretic proved it could be done without changing how the engine works) compensated by a big vertical autoaim factor, and infinite height collisions for everything except missiles all stem from that fundamental mistake. 

 

For us technically savvy people that certainly irks a lot more than (ugh...) adding some new content for free... (Seriously, some people must have a few wires crossed to consider that a "biggest mistake")

 I have often wondered what Doom might have been, had they mplemented proper 3D physics back in 1993. Then again, fast forward 2 years to the next early 3D engine (i.e. Build) and what we got may have had better 3D integration but on the downside we had glitches that were just as bad, if not worse, and also haunt the engine to this day. It's amazing what you can see if you closely observe the monsters in Duke Nukem 3D. Their movement is a lot less refined than Doom's and the botched collision testing often hilarious.

 

[jval]

To me Doom is perfectly balanced, according to the era it was publish. It was the absolute top, both in terms of gameplay and technical achievement. Also the id guys knew where exactly to draw the line and make the final product a commercial success also.

[rustygizzard]

i mean...it was an extra. they wanted to give people a reason to buy the retail version of doom, an extra incentive. it's just marketing. in my opinion thy flesh consumed doesn't even need to be necessarily played when you play the original doom, it's just a fun little bonus if you want some extra doom 1 levels by the official guys.

[Graf Zahl]

Back in the day EVERYBODY wanted more Doom levels, there was no endless supply as today. And many potential customers didn't even know that the normal versionc ould be upgraded.

[CyberDreams]

I like Episode 4. I used to hate it as it's really hard at first but then after playing it multiple times i actually really enjoy it now. I think if the map order was a bit better balanced in terms of difficulty, people would enjoy it more.

[LeoNatan]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:24 PM, lazy91geek said:

No love for Thy Flesh Consumed? Yeah, it's a little tedious at times, but it's impressive to see what they did with the original Doom game after Doom 2 was released.

I think there would have been a lot more love if Doom had the double shotgun. 😂 It's dearly missed in Thy Flesh Consumed.

[Maximum Matt]

^This be on point.