My first Public Map (feedback please?)

[Doomed20]

I've made enough maps to count on one hand, but they are all beginner maps. I sat down, and over the course of a week, I created a map that I thought would be ok to release to the public. I call it "Hell Is My Happy Place" *Automap and end screen names have not been changed*

 

This map is supposed to feel "claustrophobic" and I went for a “Master Levels for Doom 2” vibe.

 

-It is a difficult map, and it's only been balanced for UV. It is possible to beat it, don't worry. It is NOT slaughter.

-I created it in Ultimate Doom Builder using Doom 2 with Doom Format.

*I tested the wad in a couple of source ports, here are the ones I can confirm DO WORK with this map - Crispy, prBoom+, GZDoom, and yes even DOSBox.*

(I guess that means it isn't limit removing? Seeing as how it runs in DOS just fine)

-I suggest that you use Crispy to play.

 

---known bugs--- monsters may occasionally go and open doors and start fights. Don't really know how to fix in vanilla Doom, as the only DR option without keys also allows monsters to open doors. I have made all doors *block sound* but can not confirm if it removes said bug

 

20PLACE.zip

 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Doomed20

[Egg Boy]

Gave it a try on UV. And it was decent. It was short and simple. If I could give a few pointers: Try to add more height variance, this map was pretty darn flat. Make more teleporters at the end, I beat the map with only 62 kills, I was getting bored of waiting for monsters to come out of the teleporter, the final room wasn't climactic, it was just a waiting room for the player. Visually, it was passable, though there were a few peculiar detailing implements, such as the random marble slabs (as seen in the final screenshot) that it is easy to hide behind and cheese what little combat there is. Also, somewhere in the map I got the message telling me I needed a blue key, despite the lack of one in the map, I think this is an error, unless there is a secret I don't know about. The map wasn't as difficult as I'd imagined, in fact, this wouldn't be a bad first map to a set, as a standalone it's a bit dull, but ultimately inoffensive. Thank you for posting.

[spd7693]

Well, well, well... I'm not a really good mapper, but some things made impressions to me. 

 

Spoiler

 

I don't think a good mapper would allow this. 

 

 

What I wanna say? First of all, nobody can tell which slot the map fits in best at. I wouldn't really throw cyberdemons and pain elementals at the player right in the first level, but this is for the mapper to decide. Second, I can't call finishing the map with 0 shotgun shells, 5 bullets and 17 rockets balanced ammo. The usage of the rocket launcher is limited, yet again you can't finish the map without it. 

 

Speaking of the rocket launcher, it's guarded by a cyberdemon. To me such a thing would work in a slaughter map or a Hell Revealed style map, but not in a map like yours. Otherwise, the traps are well... not much of challenge. The challenging traps are when you grab the meggarmor - optional - and when you grab the rocket launcher - pretty much manageable if you're not going for 100% kills. 

 

Aesthetically, the map is good, especially in comparison to one of my maps that's just ugly. (And I posted the bugged version here, so I have to fix this ASAP.) Some random marble slabs are risinig, but they're alright. Not much landmarking, but that's alright, the map isn't big. Overall, this is a start at least better than mine. Work on lighting variation and 3d space combat. 

[Egg Boy]

1 minute ago, spd7693 said:

Well, well, well... I'm not a really good mapper, but some things made impressions to me. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I don't think a good mapper would allow this. 

 

 

What I wanna say? First of all, nobody can tell which slot the map fits in best at. I wouldn't really throw cyberdemons and pain elementals at the player right in the first level, but this is for the mapper to decide. Second, I can't call finishing the map with 0 shotgun shells, 5 bullets and 17 rockets balanced ammo. The usage of the rocket launcher is limited, yet again you can't finish the map without it. 

 

Speaking of the rocket launcher, it's guarded by a cyberdemon. To me such a thing would work in a slaughter map or a Hell Revealed style map, but not in a map like yours. Otherwise, the traps are well... not much of challenge. The challenging traps are when you grab the meggarmor - optional - and when you grab the rocket launcher - pretty much manageable if you're not going for 100% kills. 

 

Aesthetically, the map is good, especially in comparison to one of my maps that's just ugly. (And I posted the bugged version here, so I have to fix this ASAP.) Some random marble slabs are risinig, but they're alright. Not much landmarking, but that's alright, the map isn't big. Overall, this is a start at least better than mine. Work on lighting variation and 3d space combat. 

Hold up, I never encountered that cyberdemon lmao was it in a secret?

[spd7693]

Yes. The secret is also not very easy to noctice, but I appreciate the fact the creator made the player think how to get to it. I also make maps with a mindset for a thinking person. 

[TravyB]

I thought that this was a pretty neat map.

 

I liked everything you did visually, however simple and flat it may have been. I'd encourage you to experiment with more variance not only in height, but in the general size of... well, everything (lighting included). Things like the 8mu thick doorways, for example, and strict adherence to similar uses of textures based on their size in the editor (8x128, 32x128, etc.) can easily look a bit dull but it's a common beginners mistake; one I'm still trying to overcome myself. 

 

The Cyber-demon secret was cool, it was a very "ahh crap" kinda moment. I have no idea how anyone managed to activate the Cyberdemon and get him stuck on that teleporter pad; in my game he was fast asleep and waiting for me as I tele'd into his area, which I'm guessing is how it's meant to work. Maybe tagging the teleporting lines as "block enemy" would fix it. Considering the size of the map and the need to backtrack a few times, I really appreciated that you managed to keep the area populated with monster closets and teleporting enemies. Speaking of teleporters, you should try to keep your monster rooms outside the map as rectangular as possible, but in the opposite way that you made them. The reason why enemies teleport in so slowly (I actually didn't even see these Pain Elementals in my playthrough, the slow movement of both them and Mancubi make this issue worse) is that they're wandering around the opposite side of their rooms, away from the teleporter line. If the room were a wide rectangle as opposed to a long one, with the teleporter line spanning the width, they'd still wander around but they'd be able to do so right near the line. In fact, if you wanted to you could even set the teleport line on one of the lines of the door as opposed to just after it, but thats something which saves next to no time to actually implement so it doesn't really matter. Here's a quick change I made on my end just to show you what I mean:

 

 

Overall, it felt very Ultimate Doom to me, which I liked. Keep it up!

[Nootrac4571]

Nice little map, looks great and plays fine. Only issues:

 

* Ammo balance seemed a bit weird: not quite enough shells, and way too many rockets for such a cramped level.

 

* There's no incentive to actually fight the Cyberdemon - it makes much more sense to just hit the switches and run away, which if that was your intention then fair enough. Fighting him with a rocket launcher in such a small space isn't my idea of fun.

 

* Also - not sure what I did wrong - despite exploring everywhere I still had three pain elementals stuck in a teleport closet at the end, unwoken.

 

Edit: Ah, I see - the PEs are supposed to join in the cyberdemon fight. But since I didn't shoot him I never woke them up.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

[Review done from HMP difficulty]

 

A fun little map! good use of details and the map kinda mirrors a little. :)

The damaging floors were a little annoying to deal with since I had only 1 rad suit to use and by the time I got the second one, I had both keys. :l

 

I did test this through chocolate doom and I can confirm 2 doors have tutti-frutti errors.

 

Difficulty for HMP difficulty is well balanced. Good amount of enemies without being overwhelming and a decent amount of health and ammo without the map trying to hold your hand all the way. I recommend this map! <3

[Doomed20]

Oh wow. I wasn’t expecting to wake up to all these reviews. I’m gonna have to take a good read through each one and go from there. Thank you everyone!

[baja blast rd.]

In the secret cyberdemon area, I inadvertently stumbled into two softlocks. 

 

1) Two walkover linedefs (tagged 15) raise bars in front of the teleporter. Imagine you cross one (and only one) upon entering the room. Now, if you hit the escape switch later, and then cross the other walkover linedef, the bars are permanently raised. The fix is to condense the two walkover linedefs into a single one, or to give the escape switch a repeatable action.

 

2) Right after crossing the linedef to raise the bars, you can back up and board the teleporter, leading back to the main map. When you revisit the secret area, the bars, raised around the teleport pad, deprive you of the space needed to take the teleporter again. That has many fixes. 

 

Anyway, that cyberdemon area was my favorite part. Adds a lot of spice.

[Nine Inch Heels]

4 hours ago, TravyB said:

Here's a quick change I made on my end just to show you what I mean

So, I'm just gonna engage "blunt mode" right now, and tell you that your changes are in no way shape or form a substantial improvement over the setups which are used in the original map as is.

 

• Your teleport linedefs aren't split (with one part flipped), so they only work in one direction, just like the original, so you still loose time when monsters take "return trips" in the closet, due to target destinations being blocked
   
• You didn't really decrease the overall size of the setups that were much too big prior to your changes, which in particular counts for the PE closet. The problem there is closet size, not the speed of the PEs, even though PEs aren't exactly sprinters
   
• You also didn't "rail" the monsters in the closets, which brings me back to how your changes didn't really change all that much

 

It's cool you wanna help people out, but in this case I think you really didn't bring something to the table that is of substantial value.

 

Here's how it's done properly:

 

• I let the surplus air out of the closets for added speed and consistency
   
• The monsters are "railed" with an impassable linedef (monsterblocking also works) to minimize sideways movement or avoid it entirely
   
• I split the teleport linedefs and flipped one part, so now monsters have an extra chance to teleport when they move "backwards" in the closet
   
• I still kept the general order of things in the closets intact (which your improvements didn't), despite rearranging things a little for the sake of convenience and reliability

Obviously, depending on purpose and intentions, there are still ways to change these setups a little, like for instance increasing the delay on the monsters, or raising the speed even further, but this is a decent compromise that will get the job done in this particular case.

[Horus]

Demo attached, played in prBoom+. Honestly it was a lot of fun. Detailing was good without being excessive (I would just say that the doors would look better if you set them 8 units back from the rest of the room), combat was fun, and it was good you stopped backtracking being dull by repopulating cleared areas.

 

The secret was mean af (I usually save as soon as I see a cyberdemon, here I didn't and paid the price lol).

demos.zip

[Pierrot]

Played it and found it pretty fun ! I liked the close combat involved, especially the Cyberdemon fight with the teleporting PEs.

 

15 hours ago, Doomed20 said:

---known bugs--- monsters may occasionally go and open doors and start fights. Don't really know how to fix in vanilla Doom, as the only DR option without keys also allows monsters to open doors. I have made all doors *block sound* but can not confirm if it removes said bug

Is it what you experienced ? https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sleeping_shotgun_guy_in_MAP02_(Doom_II)

[Doomed20]

8 minutes ago, Pierrot said:

Played it and found it pretty fun ! I liked the close combat involved, especially the Cyberdemon fight with the teleporting PEs.

 

Is it what you experienced ? https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sleeping_shotgun_guy_in_MAP02_(Doom_II)

Glad you enjoyed it, I thought the cyber demon area would be a fun touch. That link you posted is kinda like what I experienced in testing. Mostly what I’d experience though would be this - I’d go into the room with the revenants and wake them up and then leave. Once I re enter the room, the other door would be open and the revs would be fighting the imps that we’re in there, without the player ever instigating them. Hopefully that makes sense.

[A Doomer]

Not play it but innerspring!

[Doomed20]

2 minutes ago, A Doomer said:

Not play it but innerspring!

Ok?

[A Doomer]

Just now, Doomed20 said:

Ok?

I'm making a level pack (a bad one at that)

[Doomed20]

2 minutes ago, A Doomer said:

I'm making a level pack (a bad one at that)

I’m sorry, but in what way does that have any sort of relevance to the topic at hand in which I posted asking for feedback on this particular map that I have created. I know that your account is new, as is mine, but why are you posting in someone’s topic if you aren’t going to provide any thought towards the situation? Again, sorry, but I’m looking for feedback, not your advertisement of your own project.

[A Doomer]

Just now, Doomed20 said:

I’m sorry, but in what way does that have any sort...

It helps noobs with the doom builder engine (like me) who need a boost in spirits

[Pierrot]

1 hour ago, Doomed20 said:

That link you posted is kinda like what I experienced in testing. Mostly what I’d experience though would be this - I’d go into the room with the revenants and wake them up and then leave. Once I re enter the room, the other door would be open and the revs would be fighting the imps that we’re in there, without the player ever instigating them. Hopefully that makes sense.

What I've seen is that the zombieman in the later room (thing 128) wake up when you pass the first door (you can see it with the iddt cheat), and then is able to open the later door. You can move him just a little to prevent this. On the other hand, the revenants opening the later door is another thing.

[Doomed20]

10 minutes ago, Pierrot said:

What I've seen is that the zombieman in the later room (thing 128) wake up when you pass the first door (you can see it with the iddt cheat), and then is able to open the later door. You can move him just a little to prevent this. On the other hand, the revenants opening the later door is another thing.

I’ll try moving him, would it possibly help to make the later room “deaf”?

[Pierrot]

If you put blocksound lines like you did, it should be ok.

Then, if you go back and the revenants go to the other room, that's due to level design.

[TravyB]

6 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So, I'm just gonna engage "blunt mode" right now, and tell you that your changes are in no way shape or form a substantial improvement over the setups which are used in the original map as is.

 

• Your teleport linedefs aren't split (with one part flipped), so they only work in one direction, just like the original, so you still loose time when monsters take "return trips" in the closet, due to target destinations being blocked
   
• You didn't really decrease the overall size of the setups that were much too big prior to your changes, which in particular counts for the PE closet. The problem there is closet size, not the speed of the PEs, even though PEs aren't exactly sprinters
   
• You also didn't "rail" the monsters in the closets, which brings me back to how your changes didn't really change all that much

 

It's cool you wanna help people out, but in this case I think you really didn't bring something to the table that is of substantial value.

Well, they always work just fine in my maps, so... okay. If they only have room to move left or right, while all the while mashed up against the teleport line, they'll tele in as soon there is room.

Edited January 12, 2020 by TravyB

[Doomed20]

12 minutes ago, TravyB said:

Well, they always work just fine in my maps, so... okay. If they only have room to move left or right, while all the while mashed up against the teleport line, they'll tele in as soon there is room.

In all my testing, I didn’t have any issues with waiting on TP, I guess the timing varies on each source port. Even though I tested several ports, most of my time testing was spent in DOSBox as that is my preferred method of playing.

[TravyB]

8 minutes ago, Doomed20 said:

In all my testing, I didn’t have any issues with waiting on TP, I guess the timing varies on each source port. Even though I tested several ports, most of my time testing was spent in DOSBox as that is my preferred method of playing.

I didn't mean what you said. I was responding nine inch heels' comment. In my playthrough I didn't see any pain elementals, though. 

[Doomed20]

22 minutes ago, TravyB said:

I didn't mean what you said. I was responding nine inch heels' comment. In my playthrough I didn't see any pain elementals, though. 

I saw that, I was just mentioning that different ports vary with monster movement. What port did you use for playing? I’m curious 

[Sir Hattington]

This map is... okay? The biggest gripes I have is that the bunny music was a bad choice for music, it has an obvious loop and it really does not fit. Also I don't know how, But I skipped almost half the map. I finished with 66% kills, but I killed every enemy I saw. (besides the final teleporter room, I just walked through the exit without fighting any of the monsters slowly pouring out.) Also, even though I think you were going for that "claustrophobic" feel with the damaging floors, they really were not a problem. If anything they were just annoying. And despite you calling this map challenging, I found it quite a breeze.

[Doomed20]

I have another level almost ready. I may touch up my first maps that were never released and then upload those as well.

[Doomed20]

On 1/13/2020 at 1:26 AM, Sir Hattington said:

This map is... okay? The biggest gripes I have is that the bunny music was a bad choice for music, it has an obvious loop and it really does not fit. Also I don't know how, But I skipped almost half the map. I finished with 66% kills, but I killed every enemy I saw. (besides the final teleporter room, I just walked through the exit without fighting any of the monsters slowly pouring out.) Also, even though I think you were going for that "claustrophobic" feel with the damaging floors, they really were not a problem. If anything they were just annoying. And despite you calling this map challenging, I found it quite a breeze.

Did you find the secret?

[Cowboy Diamond]

Really enjoyed the level.