Hisymak Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) For Doom, it's E2M8. It was just a simple boss level with a Cyberdemon, which itself I hate because how extremely deadly and fast this boss is. But what I hate the most on the map is the fact that the only weapon you get there is rocket launcher and tons of rockets. But rocket launcher is actually very ineffective and even unusable against Cyberdemon, so this map always looked very pointless to me, especially with pistol start. I don't remember if I even bothered finishing this level without cheats at all. For Doom2, it's MAP30. It was not a classic boss level I was expecting, but rather an unwinnable and endless shower of spawning monsters, which I was trying to survive the longest possible time (obviously I had absolutely no idea how to beat the level). Some time later, my friend or schoolmate showed me cheats, as well as how to beat the last level by ICDLIP to romero head and kill it. I was again disappointed because I thought the only way to beat the game was using cheats. Yet later I got to know what was the real legit way to beat the level, and I was not pleased either. Shoot from RL just before the elevator goes fully up to precisely hit the brain. Ugh, nope. For Heretic, (not) coincidentally, it's E5M8. I was really amazed when I got the Shadow of the Serpent Riders expansion. 2 new episodes, yay! I was looking forward to got new stuff like new monsters, weapons, music... eh, nope. Nothing new at all, just levels. But I was the most disappointed by the last levels from both episodes. I was expecting something like a new boss (eh, not really after my experience), or at least something really interesting, like level design, puzzle etc. The episode 4 last level was a fair one, multiple iron liches as a final "boss", ehm, okay. But episode 5 last level, the VERY LAST level of the complete game? A simplistic map with just a battle with several Maulotaurs. Seriously??? It was so underwhelming and disappointing. For Hexen (Deathknights of the Dark Citadel expansion) it was... guess what. The very last level just a simplistic circle arena where I battle a few monsters and then those 3 characters which I could kill with 1-2 shots from my 4th weapon. C'mon. It could have been a great ending of whole game, but it just was not. 1 Share this post Link to post
Lila Feuer Posted January 12, 2020 Ultimate Doom: E1M9: Kinda boring with all the same-y rooms. E4M1: Annoying on UV due to utter lack of health. E4M2: The repeated mandatory lava traversing is painful on an already stingy map. E4M9: You could just leave within the first few minutes due to the yellow key. E4M4: Too short and easy compared to the prior maps. E4M8: Too easy again, way too many supercharges. Doom II: MAP08: Stupid gimmick level. MAP12: Ugly and boring. MAP20: Another gimmick level that otherwise isn't anything special. MAP21: Phoned in. MAP23: Yet another gimmick level that honestly doesn't use its gimmick enough. MAP24: GARBAGE. MAP25: Meh, could've been worse but could've been better. MAP31: Nice homage but I would've preferred a real secret level. MAP32: Ditto. I'm too lazy to do Final Doom right now. 3 Share this post Link to post
Remilia Scarlet Posted January 12, 2020 In Doom 1: E1M6, E2M3, E2M6, E3M6, and especially E4M6. In Doom 2: DEFINITELY map10, map13, map18, and map19. 1 Share this post Link to post
Remilia Scarlet Posted January 12, 2020 I forgot about map15... yeah, I'm not a fan of that one, either. Way too wide open for my taste. 0 Share this post Link to post
ZealknightMR Posted January 12, 2020 DOOM 2 Map 22: Catacombs I wouldn't call this map bad, but it certainly a map I hardly remember. I suppose that can count as my least favorite. 0 Share this post Link to post
cnidaria Posted January 12, 2020 Halls of the Damned, Unholy Cathedral, Tricks and Traps Mt Erebus I don't hate but I always manage to get lost so I don't like playing it 0 Share this post Link to post
Castelia Posted January 12, 2020 There aren't any levels I dislike playing, though a few that I remember less fondly from my first playthroughs include E2M6 (I got lost and fell for the exit trap, hook, line, and sinker) E4M1 (limited ammo for the first stage of an episode, plus a Baron, and I didn't know about the rocket launcher secret when I first played), and Map10 (that big room full of hitscanners in alcoves plus the Cyberdemon jumpscare, I was trying to attack it through the grate when it teleported next to me and killed me). 0 Share this post Link to post
Boaby Kenobi Posted January 12, 2020 Doom II - Factory I hate that map. It's a waste of time and ammo. TNT - Metal Just don't like it at all. Doom 64 - Hectic It's cheap and unfair. 0 Share this post Link to post
DynamiteKaitorn Posted January 12, 2020 Ultimate DooM: Spoiler Episode 1 E1M6 - It took me SO LONG to finally have a route through this map. For the longest time I'd get lost trying to figure out where I am meant to go. It's not a bad map, just one that really rewards those who memorise the layout. Personally for am Episode 1 map, it's a little too confusing to navigate. Episode 2 [If counting music, E2M2.] E2M9 For simply being boring. Tower of mystery just surrounds you with barons and then you enter a room filled with cacodemons then you grab 3 keys and exit. It's a map I usually play just so I've done all the level but it's one I care vary little for. Episode 3 There's no such thing as a bad level for episode 3 E3M7. OH BOY. Gates of Limbo/Limbo. Talk about a cluster**** of a level design! This map is very hard to memorise just doe to all the paths you can take as well as all of the teleporting around. Not to mention, some areas are quite wide open. Combine it with pinky's and caco's and you've got a recipe of enemies sniping from afar whilst you are being nommed to death. Episode 4 E4M2. Perfect hatred. need I say more? DooM II: Hell on Earth Spoiler MAP10 - For being one of the earliest maps, Refueling Base has a rather hard opening. Don't get me wrong, it's fun once you get past the half-way mark, until then you're ammo is kinda tight and you're likely to get blasted a good few times from former sergeants. MAP27 - Monster Condo has this problem of being boring and frustrating. Sometimes I wander aimlessly killing the few stragglers I missed earlier and then next thing you know I awaken a bunch of angry revenants. MAP28 - Like E3M7, this map is also very hard to memorise just due to how weird it's layout is. MAP30 [Outside of sourceports that allow vertical aiming] - Icon of Sin is a PAIN to kill. Trying to fire a rocket into a tiny hole whilst my arse is being pelted with cacodemons, imps, barons, hell knights, arachnotrons, revenants, mancubuses and rarely archviles. If I ever play this level I almost always cheat with noclip just to save the headache. @_@ 2 Share this post Link to post
Mortrixs19 Posted January 12, 2020 E2M5,E2M7,E2M9,E3M7,E4M1,E4M9 MAP12,MAP17,MAP21,MAP31 AND 32 0 Share this post Link to post
Andromeda Posted January 13, 2020 Doom - E1M1: Hangar. I've played it to death and have grown tired of it. Doom II - MAP30: Icon of Sin. The concept is interesting but the execution is extremely dull. TNT and Plutonia, for example, do it much better. TNT - MAP24: Quarry. A mishmash of concepts, coupled with being very short makes it feel like a testing playground more than an actual level. Plutonia - MAP24: The Final Frontier. The Living End, but much more meaty and worse in every way. 1 Share this post Link to post
D. Whiskey Posted January 13, 2020 Doom 2 Map15 absolutely sucks in 100% pure vanilla Doom. It's all because you're at a 200p resolution, and that autoaim stops working at a surprisingly short distance, making vertical aim impossible. With that in mind, here's a massive open area where you get shot at by a hundred hitscanners from so far away that they can't be seen, heard, or fired back at. Rather than trying to downplay the game's most annoying limitations, it brings them front and center, almost like it's proud of them or something. 7 Share this post Link to post
Jello Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) E2M6: Halls of the Damned. I've always hated that level. From the start you're forced to walk through toxic slime (what's the point of putting toxic waste in, if you have to put small platforms with medkits on them?). The design of the level is a bunch of small, angled, long hallways, with tech textures, transitioning at random to wood textures and book cases, and sections with clay bricks and vines, and a random crusher. The layout is confusing, and frustratingly haphazard. It's just such a bad level. Doom 1 has some forgettable levels, and some frustrating levels, but when I think of fundamentally bad levels, E2M6 pops in my mind. Sandy: "Hey guys, I bet I can cram more mismatched textures into a map than you can! Plus, I can add more angles into small corridors than you! And if you do a pistol start, the first weapon you get is a rocket launcher! PLUS! I will hide the exit door behind three key doors! AND! I will make an unavoidable toxic nukage pit right at the start!" The rest of iD: Bullshit. You can't get away with all of that. Sandy: Watch me. Edited January 13, 2020 by Jello 4 Share this post Link to post
Uni Posted January 13, 2020 MAP30: Icon of Sin. Not that I think it's a badly designed level, I just don't like the idea behind limitless monsters. I understand what they tried to achieve but its not my cup of tea. Decent map, bad gameplay (for me). E4M7: And Hell Followed: I find it to be a little anti-climatic, especially in the penultimate slot. It's also kind of too symmetrical for my own taste and the gameplay is average at best. Honestly, I would rather have a Sandy level over this, or extra one from Romero or McGee. I think it would be better to swap this level with E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly slot. It would make more sense, at least in my eyes. Overall, not a very interesting map to play through. 2 Share this post Link to post
ketmar Posted January 13, 2020 E4M2. that's how far i ever got in TFC. dunno if it has better maps after this, and have no desire to check. 0 Share this post Link to post
Zulk RS Posted January 13, 2020 It's funny. When I try to think of a Doom 2 Map I hate, I can't think of anything but when I sit down to play Doom 2 for the 1001th time, I get to a map and go "Go god I hate this map so much." 2 Share this post Link to post
Jello Posted January 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, ketmar said: E4M2. that's how far i ever got in TFC. dunno if it has better maps after this, and have no desire to check. Well, better is a subjective term. I like all of TFC, and E4M2 is one of my favorite maps. Are the rest of the levels as difficult? Not really, they get easier; especially because you have some weapons and ammo built up. The first two levels of TFC are probably the most difficult of the original Doom levels. But I really do enjoy E4M1 and M2, precisely because they're so unfair. The levels do start branching out, and it becomes more of a traditional design after the first two levels. So I would suggest playing through it. Or just skipping to E4M3 and going from there. Really TFC is my favorite episode of the original Doom, despite not being part of the original Doom. 1 Share this post Link to post
ketmar Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jello said: I like all of TFC, and E4M2 is one of my favorite maps it may be a good map, but that difficulty spike... i tried it several times, failed it several times, and now i hate the whole E4, thanks to E4M2. i know what people are saying about TFC, but... no. just no. ;-) 0 Share this post Link to post
Jello Posted January 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, ketmar said: it may be a good map, but that difficulty spike... i tried it several times, failed it several times, and now i hate the whole E4, thanks to E4M2. i know what people are saying about TFC, but... no. just no. ;-) I get that. It is a gut punch level, and I can see how it could put someone off the whole thing. Really it should've been one of the last levels in the episode. But it's not, it is where it is. But E4 is just so damn good overall. It feels far more focused that E2 and E3, and better constructed since they had time to refine their map building skills. I mean, shit, Barons of Hell in the first level? Count me in. 0 Share this post Link to post
Spectre01 Posted January 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Rainne said: E1M6. Not because of the level itself, but by the time I get there, I've gone through E1M1-5 (and E1M9) already; and in my mind, E1M6/7 are just "the other two" before the boss level. I feel exactly the same about e2m6. By that point I've had my fill of Tom's Halls from e2m5 and ain't up for a map dedicated to them. E3 is the episode which I find the most consistently entertaining. As far as Doom 2 goes, I don't care for Tenements in E2. In E3, maps 22, 25, and 26 are a big meh for me. 2 Share this post Link to post
Joshua Schäferhund Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jello said: E2M6: Halls of the Damned. I've always hated that level. From the start you're forced to walk through toxic slime (what's the point of putting toxic waste in, if you have to put small platforms with medkits on them?). The design of the level is a bunch of small, angled, long hallways, with tech textures, transitioning at random to wood textures and book cases, and sections with clay bricks and vines, and a random crusher. The layout is confusing, and frustratingly haphazard. It's just such a bad level. Glad to know I'm not the only one who really doesn't see the love for that map. Seriously, the entire red key portion of that map is just a boring, bland glorified Wolfenstein 3D maze. Given that Doom was supposed to be an upgrade over that game in 1993, that is completely *unacceptable* in my opinion. Most of the traps can be skipped too if you know what you're doing. You can literally skip both of the baron/pinky traps towards the exit if you go through the red key maze first and then go to the yellow key room right after. One of those traps doesn't even function properly due to the thing placement causing the pinkies to be stuck. There's also no reason to revisit the fake exit once you know where it is other than to get a soulsphere. I'm pretty sure the only reason why people love this map so much is because of the atmosphere, but that's pretty much the only thing going for it. Gameplay wise, it's a boring slog to get through. Monster Condo in Doom 2 is pretty much Halls of the Damned's concept except 1000 times better. E2M5 is also pretty bland and uninteresting imo, with there being little reason to explore the map other than to get a plasma rifle and a few cell packs. (And a chainsaw too I guess, if you're playing from pistol start.) The secret exit is also way too easy to find. And the less said about E3 in general, the better. Edited January 13, 2020 by Patch93 2 Share this post Link to post
Egg Boy Posted January 13, 2020 I don't really care at all for map05 and map09 from Doom 2. Map05 isn't particularly memorable, and is pretty dull, especially the underground part with the little jail cells. Map09, on the other hand is pretty memorable for starving the player for ammo, however, difficulty isn't a valid criticism in my eyes, what I distinctly dislike about this map is all the gimmicks shoved into each room, its sort of an indoor city map. I like a good gimmick, but none of the gimmicks in this map are particularly fun in my opinion, especially that room with all the lifts, its a bit annoying. In general, I'm a Sandy Peterson apologist, and I like a nice classic challenging level (e2m2 is one of my favorite Ultimate Doom maps), but map09 just doesn't hit the same, y'know? (or perhaps I'm just butt-hurt I got fucked in the rocket launcher room) 1 Share this post Link to post
Graf Zahl Posted January 13, 2020 On visual terms, nearly everything done solo by Sandy Petersen. The worst offenders of a random collage of rooms are MAP08, MAP09 and MAP21 - but let's not forget MAP12 which may be a bit more coherent but which is just as ugly. And then there's MAP30... 1 Share this post Link to post
VanaheimRanger Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said: On visual terms, nearly everything done solo by Sandy Petersen. The worst offenders of a random collage of rooms are MAP08, MAP09 and MAP21 - but let's not forget MAP12 which may be a bit more coherent but which is just as ugly. And then there's MAP30... Honestly, who decided to let Sandy make so many boss levels? EDIT: Oh yea, let me throw in my least favorite: The Chasm...nuff said. 1 Share this post Link to post
NiGHTMARE Posted January 13, 2020 Since I'm busy reworking all levels in both Doom 1 and 2, threads like this are a goldmine for me. I hope to be able to fix at least some of the problems people had with the originals, the fugliness of Petersen's maps definitely being one of them. 2 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Boaby Kenobi said: Doom 64 - Hectic It's cheap and unfair. Yeah, all traps in Hectic were on the bullshit side. In fact, the sole reason for the existence of this map is to unlock some bonus maps. No new weapons apart from an early Rocket Launcher, no Demon Keys, and the power ups are all trapped. It is possible to to pick up some of them such as the Soulsphere if you're careful, but the others trap you in if you attempt to grab them afaik. Meanwhile, predictable comments are predictable. For as long as I live, I will never understand the hatred for Sandy's maps, and honestly I don't think I fucking want to... Edited January 13, 2020 by seed 2 Share this post Link to post
LUISDooM Posted January 13, 2020 My least favorite map is E2M9: Fortress of mystery from Ultimate DooM, it feels like a test map or something like that. Good thing it is a secret map and can be skipped... 2 Share this post Link to post
Maximum Matt Posted January 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Uni said: E4M7: And Hell Followed: I find it to be a little anti-climatic, especially in the penultimate slot. It's also kind of too symmetrical for my own taste and the gameplay is average at best. Honestly, I would rather have a Sandy level over this, or extra one from Romero or McGee. I think it would be better to swap this level with E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly slot. This. All the this. And E4M4 is the Blandness. 1 Share this post Link to post