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Microdemon

Least favorite classic Doom or Doom 2 map?

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16 hours ago, Sharkbrain said:

E2M4. I actually ended up putting the game down because of how flat and blagh the overall design was.

Thank you! I never see this one brought up in these discussions and man is it just the most bland level ever. Easily my least favorite in UDoom.

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I've probably replied to something similar already but I'll do it again. I'll try and break the norm to mention a map from each episode.

 

-=- Ultimate DOOM -=-

- E1M9: Military Base (not bad, but worst of lotr)

- E2M6: Halls of the Damned (easy to get lost, meh)

- E3M1: Hell Keep (very boring and bland, but only first map)

- E4M4: Unruly Evil (brown and brown, very compact too)

- E5M9: Realm of Iblis (not bad, but worst of lot)

 

-=- DOOM II: Hell on Earth -=-

MAP08: Tricks and Traps (cool gimmick, not good map)

MAP19: The Citadel (I still don't know how to get 3 keys)

MAP21: Nirvana (take one look at it and you'll see why)

 

-=- Master Levels for DOOM II -=-

MAP32: Bad Dream (no explanation, just shit)

 

-=- No Rest for the Living -=-

MAP09: March of the Demons (not bad, but worst of lot)

 

-=- TNT: Evilution -=-

MAP11: Storage Facility (not bad, but worst of lot)

MAP13: Nukage Processing / MAP18: Mill (can't decide, both are questionable)

MAP21: Administration Center (expansive, desolate, inferior) 

 

-=- The Plutonia Experiment -=-

MAP11: Hunted (cool idea, good execution, not good map)

MAP13: The Crypt (hard choice, it's okay but meh)

MAP26: Bunker (never really liked it, bit meh)

Edited by Scorpius

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So, I see a lot of you posting least favorite Final Doom maps as well. Let me just say which are they for me. 

 

  • Surprisingly or not, I not only like Habitat (TNT map 22), but it also is my favorite map of the whole wad! Seriously! I personally adore the idea of doors opening wherever you step. Adds surprise element and makes you watch your corners all the time. I also love maps where you have to go everywhere to get everything. I also design my maps with something in every point of them, but come on! Nobody likes to traverse the whole sewer maze only to open two shortcuts which are totally irrelevant. I think if they didn't exist, the map wouldn't have been as hated. Oh, and if the trap at the exit wasn't redundant, because you can completely skip triggering it. 
  • Wormhole is one of the maps of TNT I really hate (map 4). Main reason is that 88% of the level is optional. If it's not essential for the player to go through it, why does it exist at all? 
  • Metal. (TNT map 8.) Self-explanatory. Especially the last room. 
  • Shipping/Respawning (TNT map 19.) What the f*** is this level supposed to be or what the f*** is its purpose? 
  • Quarry (TNT map 24). Well, the caverns gimmick does start getting boring. Same with 25 and 26. 
  • Mount Pain (TNT map 27). Like Big Mac Davis would say "This map is never a good thing." There are portions of it I actually like, but if my maps aren't balanced with health and ammo, how about this map? 
  • Realm (Plutonia map 8.) Milo, a few more monster variety, letting the player out of that chaingunner trap and using less revenatns won't kill you! Even now after I have improved gameplay wise, I still feel the map is kinda unforgiving for being just the 8th in the wad. 
  • Onslaught (Plutonia map 10.) Chaingunners everywhere. Strange why I actually like Speed for the same reason. 
  • The Crypt (Plutonia map 13.) Well, I don't understand this map. Also I feel the Casalis didn't think the hard levels were getting too many in a row. A breather after 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 wouldn't have hurt. At least 14 kinda fills in that role, but that arch-vile running around all over the place is still nerve-wrecking. 
  • Slayer (Plutonia map 21.) Just personal opinion about it. I don't have fun playing it. I just want to enjoy wrestling with the monsters not just BFG-bash everything. At least it's not ammoless like Requiem 23. 
Spoiler

Or maybe I don't find the right infighting tecnique there? Maybe someone can PM me how to conserve some ammo in that level, 'cause I stopped at 27 last time when I played Requiem a few days ago. 

  • The Final Frontier (Plutonia map 24). Way too wide open for no hiding spots from arch-viles. The cyberdemon either will splatter you or is a total joke. Let's not forget something Dario did in Memento Mori - pain elementals that spawn all the way on the other side of the map and before you kill them they have flooded the level with lost souls. 
  • Bunker (Plutonia map 26.) Ah, that sewer. How many times do you have to run a full circle into it to kill everything? Not to mention you can't really jump over it and the traps are for weird reasons. If there is to be a trap, it has to be triggered by a key, an essential switch, a major weapon or powerup (megasphere, BFG, but I don't like berserk packs being a bait for a trap) or in a hallway essential for finishing the level! Period! 

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5 hours ago, spd7693 said:

I not only like Habitat (TNT map 22), but it also is my favorite map of the whole wad! Seriously!

Whoa dude you're weird

5 hours ago, spd7693 said:

Wormhole is one of the maps of TNT I really hate (map 4). Main reason is that 88% of the level is optional. If it's not essential for the player to go through it, why does it exist at all? 

EXACTLY.

5 hours ago, spd7693 said:

Shipping/Respawning (TNT map 19.) What the f*** is this level supposed to be or what the f*** is its purpose? 

Shipping and, uh, respawning.  This is one of the most realistic 'location' maps in TNT

 

5 hours ago, spd7693 said:

Mount Pain (TNT map 27). Like Big Mac Davis would say "This map is never a good thing."

Ah, the mighty Big Mac.  He also called this "Mount Go Fuck Yourself". 

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On 1/17/2020 at 2:41 AM, Maximum Matt said:

Whoa dude you're weird

 

There is another weird thing about me: 

 

  • Doom 2 - I hate The Chasm
  • TNT - I hate Quarry 
  • Plutonia - I hate The Final Frontier 
  • Memento Mori - I hate Diehard 
  • Memento Mori 2 - I don't like Io Lab 
  • Requiem - I hate Procrustes Chambers
  • Hell Revealed - I hate Post Mortem 
  • Scythe - I hate Hatred. 

Anything similar? 

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17 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

 

There is another weird thing about me: 

 

  • Doom 2 - I hate The Chasm

 

Not on my watch. The Chasm gets its fair share of hatred already, nothing weird to see here.

 

A more weird thing to say would be liking Doom 2's maps, those don't get a lot of love around here.

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2 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

@seed read everything please. I know it's not weird I hate The Chasm lol. Look closer at the whole text. 

What, that you hate "hatred"? 

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7 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Not on my watch. The Chasm gets its fair share of hatred already, nothing weird to see here.

 

A more weird thing to say would be liking Doom 2's maps, those don't get a lot of love around here.

He wants to say he hates all Map24, but the funny thing is that some of these Map24s are actually fine, like the Final Frontier.

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8 minutes ago, seed said:

A more weird thing to say would be liking Doom 2's maps, those don't get a lot of love around here.

 

Well then I guess I am weird as I actually like Doom 2's maps much more than E2 to E4 of Doom 1.

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@GarrettChan Yeah, if you look at them objectively they are fine, but some simply don't resonate with my playstyle. There comes the question - do I hate number 24 or number 24 hates me? Furthermore, I don't like Deimos Lab (E2M4 - can also read 24 in it) and Perfect Hatred (E4M2 - can also read 24 into it if you reverse the episode and the map.) There are other games where I don't like the 24th level as well. Which leads to me speaking of the "number 24 curse." Other Doom wads where the 24th level doesn't seem like my cup of tea are TNT Revilution and Eternal Doom. At least map 24 of Doom 2 The Way It Did temporarily broke the curse and I not only like it, but it turned out my favorite in the set. 

 

Personally, I don't like the way The Final Frontier is built out. But again, Diehard is a lot worse. Come on! Who likes pain elementals opening up at the other end of the map and waking up? It's even worse with those in Post Mortem since the lost souls never let me deal with the cyberdemons at peace. 

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Doom: E4M1 because it's a really shitty starting level design.

 

Doom 2: Normally I would say Icon Of Sin, but since I quit once I get to that "level" there's really nothing to complain about.  So I'm going with Industrial Zone simply because it's the map I bitch the most about that I actually play.  Wide open space + hitscanners everywhere around you = a shitshow!  

 

Final Doom: All maps with Heavy Weapon Dudes.  The absolute worst enemy placements!

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Doom

E2M9 - close but no cigar.

E3M1 - stylewise a good map, but it's brother E3M9 is what this one should have been. On the other hand the surprise/difference to E3M9 was awesome.

E4M4 - to me, the only McGee map which I do not really like as a whole. I suspect he tried to do something along a fashionable minimalist route but it was not viable enough to be included in release of this magnitude. The monotone texturing should have been accompanied with a special take on lighting which would have been feasible in 95 due to faster processors munching the visplanes. A map route where the player would have re-visited sections multiple times could have made the map more interesting. If one takes a look at Shawn Green's 2 maps in this set one can only say "Gee... I guess American took a day off".

 

DoomII

Map30 - different with a great track and starting area but too abstract to connect to the rest of the game. Romero or McGee should have intervened here and settled on a new design, maybe some supercharged twin of Map07 would have been great with a surprise effect similar to E3M9.

 

 

Edited by _bruce_

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Honestly, just going to say that much of E3 leaves a lot to be desired. Doom 2 is definitely where Sandy shines a lot more and really refines his gimmick maps. Will say tho that imo E3M7 is one of my favorite maps and E3M2 E3M1 & E3M8 are some of my least favorite maps for many reasons.

E3M2 is just really confusing your first time but also really easy if you know where the exit is and where the blue keycard is. However, the gimmick that the map is shaped like a hand is just not a good idea. The hand makes the whole map cramped and shorter than it could've been. E3M1 is just stupid having to kill two cacos with a pistol and then spend the rest of the map conserving ammo so you don't get boned on M2. E3M8 just shows that Sandy didn't know the spider mastermind was weaker than the cyberdemon + the map doesn't really shine unless you pistol start it, but even then it doesn't have the same impact as E1M8 or the level design of E2M8. Tho, picking up the rockets before fighting the spider (pistol start) is an interesting concept, in the context of not pistol starting the map's design has bad execution (EG BFG spam)

Unlike other players, I like the concept of E3M9. I like that wormhole in TNT is a similar concept but put into a full level. I think E3M9 might be my favorite secret level in the game tbh.

The chasm sucks a lot but it's interesting because it's kind of antithetical to what makes Doom Doom. Like, people hate the chasm bc of its concept and execution more than anything else about the level. Doom's about fast paced running-n-gunning. The game overall uses your speed and mobility as the PC's defense. The Chasm is interesting because it totally flies in the face of this. I would like to see a map or mapset that plays with Chasm's concept and refines it to be more modern. I wonder if someone's made maps like Map24 or if people have just avoided the concept altogether

Otherwise, I dunno, the IWADs overall have aged a lot. They're still fun and have influenced the community a ton. However, I find that Sandy's concepts have made more of influence than his design or even the execution of his concepts. Where as Romero's maps have a bit more staying power, but because they're unfortunately at the beginning of the game they're balanced to be a lot easier than E2 or E3.

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7 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

So you hate Final Doom then.

 

"Hunted" is my favorite map.  Shame the music is so outta place. 

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E2M9, not that inspired but it is fun having the Cacodemons and Barons fight it out. E3M1 is bland and unrealistic but is fun to play from a pistol start, esp on the SNES.

 

Worst of all IWAD maps = TNT MAP27. A very painful experience indeed!

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