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Jason

WAD idea. Help wanted. Willing to pay ONLY IF NECESSARY.

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I wanted to make a 5* map wad called MAZE OF DEATH. I can design the maps myself, pick out and or compose music myself, and I can add textures to the map and things to it all myself in doom builder 2. What I cannot do is learn to build the actual maps and make things like lifts and exits work. I know I could learn--the thing is, I prefer not to. I still try to learn it myself and I fail with every try. I know someone will reply to this post with a "well just practice!" or a "if you learn how, you'll get better!" but I will ignore those responses** as I get them too many times when talking about inability to do certain things instead of people taking my word for it.

I prefer someone with actual experience to do these. I want these maps to be as functional as possible*** because I want people to find and play them. The worse they are, the least people will want to try them out. I am willing to pay**** but if I must pay someone I most certainly cannot promise a large amount whatsoever. A good example would be 5$ a map. For a 5 map wad that would equal 25 bucks. I would not pay for the 6th one as it is only 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and an exit. Just to end the map. If you know how to make maps I estimate that this would only take less than 15 minutes considering the small amount of effort required and the lack of an ability to texture it and add things. I have stated that I can do that much myself. I honestly would ask Adam Post to do this but he is always busy. At this point I wish to respect him by not bugging him. Every man has something they need to do and I understand that.

Should you choose to obtain more information, you can PM me.

*6 only if you count the exit map.
**If the response also contains an offer to help build the WAD, I will pay attention.
***You need to have experience in making WADs that are fully functional.
****I will pay ONLY IF NECESSARY. If you are willing to do it for free and I choose you I will not pay you. I will credit you whether or not payment is involved.


-J

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I'm not gonna lie, when I first read this, I thought it was a joke.

Edited by Scorpius

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9 minutes ago, elend said:

No, no, guys. It's actually worse. He only needs people to make functioning doors / switches / exits since this is something he can't be bothered to learn, it seems. 

 which only takes watching a 10 minute YouTube tutorial

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15 minutes ago, elend said:

No, no, guys. It's actually worse. He only needs people to make functioning doors

lol he can just use door tool that's included in UDB

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I don't think it's legal  to pay people to make maps for you. ID owns the base content. There's no need to bring money into this. Can I pay you guys to add a "S1 Exit level" linedef action to my WAD is pretty ridiculous and any one asking for money from you to do this is a total dick. this post got me heated bro. I could say more but don't feel like typing it lol. Remember the back lash of Team TNT? At least ID commissioned that.

Edited by Dubbagdarrel

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Everyone's dunking on this dude for coming to a bad conclusion when confronted with the… well… real fact that there are aspects of Doom mapping that aren't the most "entertaining", "easy to approach" or "creative" (ymmv ofc). Still, I can wrap my head around the concept of wanting just to work on the design and not on the functionality of a Doom map, even if I find it misguided.

 

I think the crux of the issue is not so much wanting to get other people to do the busy work for you, but that maybe Doom mapping ain't for you if you don't wanna bother with the technical aspects of it. You might be better off just designing 3D spaces on some kinda CAD software and then sharing those renders with the world, like people in the early 90s did, or maybe you can become the first Doom mapper to only make cool looking spaces with no gameplay to them. If you can find a way to enjoy this sorta creative endeavor without making it tedious for you, I say more power to ya.

 

Never mind, this dude is clearly misguided about everything.

Edited by kid marscat : Changed my mind.

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If your issue is being unable to make basics like lifts, doors I can show how to do that. I can set up a YT stream with you and just run through some stuff quickly, would take all of 10-15min.

 

3 hours ago, Jason said:

A good example would be 5$ a map. For a 5 map wad that would equal 25 bucks. I would not pay for the 6th one as it is only 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and an exit. Just to end the map. If you know how to make maps I estimate that this would only take less than 15 minutes considering the small amount of effort required and the lack of an ability to texture it and add things. I have stated that I can do that much myself.

 

$5 per good, or even decent, map is way below what peoples time is worth. 15 minutes per map is nothing, it may be that short if you're recreating a map you can look at in UDB but if you're coming up with a new one then 15 minutes won't even cover the planning/layout (for me, at least).

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...

 

Just learn the craft, man. Making doors / lifts / exits should take you no longer then 15 minutes to figure out if you're actually *trying* to figure it out. I've introduced someone who has never touched a level editor in their life to DOOM Builder and they figured all the basic shit out in a day.

 

Besides, $5 is laughably low. 15 minutes and probably more would be dedicated to merely planning out the map.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

I can add textures to the map and things to it all myself in doom builder 2. What I cannot do is learn to build the actual maps and make things like lifts and exits work. I know I could learn--the thing is, I prefer not to. I still try to learn it myself and I fail with every try.

 

Personally, I find the actual construction of the level to be the most entertaining part of mapping, while the act of texturing the map can be the tedious part. But, hey, to each his own. I will take your word for it that getting the mechanics of things in the levels to work can be frustrating and isn't enjoyable to you. Fine.

 

I don't think the notion of paying someone for drawing a map is illegal. There are probably people that take commissions to make Doom maps. That being said, while it is generally a hobby that people do for fun, $5 for a map seems a bit low, unless you are looking for a scribe. And since you claimed that you would supply the design, the layout, the texturing, and thing placement, perhaps all someone who took on this job has to do is draw linedefs in an editor and add tags for actions.

 

I understand that you left instructions to PM you for further information, but, as Misty wrote, there is a great deal of information missing from this, much of which is very basic. Before someone may want to take the time to contact you to ask for more information, they may want to know some information so they don't waste their time or your time inquiring about something for which they would not qualify.

 

  • Which game will this be for?
  • What is your intended format? That will matter to some people. If it's UDMF, someone who doesn't make UDMF maps may have all the interest in the world, but would be unable to assist you. Similarly, if you wanted vanilla maps, someone with no interest in making vanilla maps might be intrigued by your idea, but wouldn't be the right person for the job.
  • What is the general size of the maps you want made? Your estimate of 15 minutes to draw everything may be meaningful or it may not. I've watched people do incredible work in very short amounts of time, and that includes texturing and thing placement. How do the sizes of the 5 maps compare with the size of the iwad levels?
  • How detailed will your map layout be? Will you send scans of drawings on graph paper, with the rooms drawn to the appropriate scale, with notes about ceiling heights and floor heights, switch locations, walkover lines, monster closets, actions that you want to happen, etc.? Or will you sketch out a quick set of lines on the back of a napkin with a few general notes? The more detail and accuracy you can provide in your drawing, the more likely someone could meet your 15 minute estimate.
  • How faithful to you want the mapper to stay to the layout you provide? Will they have any flexibility? Can they add details? Or do you expect to receive exactly what you drew and nothing more?
  • Similarly to the preceding question, will you accept feedback on your layout? If the mapper thinks that a different setup for a particular encounter would work better, will you consider that? In other words, do you consider this to be something of a collaborative effort, or do you just want a scribe who will transcribe exactly what is in your drawing into the editor? Some people might not want to be bothered with being a scribe, some people might enjoy the freedom of not having to come up with the ideas.

 

I'm not asking you to provide scans of your layouts or detailed drawings or anything here. If you provide answers to these questions, and someone messages you, then you'll know that person is certainly interested and has a good idea of what they're getting into. It will be less likely to be a waste of time for either of you.

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What I don't get is that if you have a problem with making a door or switch then why haven't you posted about it? I remember having a bunch of issues making doors with things like not knowing the size of a door to not knowing how to face linedefs. I'm not sure if you've posted about it, but I know many DW users could quickly point out what you're particularly doing wrong.

 

4 hours ago, Misty said:

You're asking people to make map for you, but yet you have nothing to show from concept art, screenshots, no mention of mapping format or size or texture pack.  


This. If you want people to help you, OP, it'd be a good move to at least post some of the maps/screenies of all you've been working on. I just can't really see why someone would work with you given how you've presented this project

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5 hours ago, Jason said:

I wanted to make a 5* map wad called MAZE OF DEATH. I can design the maps myself, pick out and or compose music myself, and I can add textures to the map and things to it all myself in doom builder 2. What I cannot do is learn to build the actual maps and make things like lifts and exits work.

I have questions...

 

When you say "design the maps", what exactly does that mean? Are you just providing ideas, or are you providing some actual map geometry?

 

And when you say you "cannot build the actual maps", does that mean you only struggle with functionality (lifts, doors, teleports, exits, etc), or does that mean you struggle with adding any kind of map geometry at all?

 

The reason I'm asking is the following:
 

5 hours ago, Jason said:

If you know how to make maps I estimate that this would only take less than 15 minutes considering the small amount of effort required and the lack of an ability to texture it and add things.

 

I am well aware that there are some pretty fast mappers out there, some of them can build quite impressive maps from scratch over the course of a weekend, "all inclusive". Which means geometry, functionality, placing monsters, and detailing. But that's still a weekend, or -in other words- a couple hours spent per map, if you want something small-ish that plays decent and is a solid craft.

 

If you are aiming at something like 15 minutes per map, and you pay 5 bucks a pop, cool. I'm sure somebody might be interested in earning themselves some pocket money for relatively little effort. But what if you're wrong about the time estimate? What if it actually takes 2-3 hours to build a small map that works properly? And what happens if you want some things about the map changed, which would mean additional time spent in the editor?

 

I think these are some questions that your OP needs to answer a bit more clearly, or at all, really, because the prospect of spending let's say 2 hours per map, which would be an hourly rate of 2.50$, doesn't exactly sound very inviting.

 

And even if we take money out of the equation entirely, I still wouldn't know what I'm actually signing up for, if I were to sign up in the first place. I find what little information your OP provides too vague to make a decision, to be perfectly honest. And I think you need rectify this, if you expect to get any help at all.

 

Mapping formats and all that jazz doesn't really matter anywhere near as much as not knowing what the job you are offering actually entails.

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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this is very sad that someone would not be willing to try to improve there skills, I know i struggle with mapping but at least i put some effort into it.

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You are certainly not going to make any mapping progress if you follow through with this idea. And if you want this type of thing to be done, I would say start out with posting actual maps that are good until maybe, you want to host a community project and saying what restrictions you want it to have. Also, there is plenty of tutorials on how to work very basic components on a doom editor (Hell, GZDooMBuilder has a feature where you can select a sector and turn it into a door in 2 clicks). I'd suggest you push through your mapping challenges and if map making isnt for you, contribute to the community some other way. Didnt Ling once say something along the lines of: "Since I wasnt good at making Doom maps but I had web development skills, I made Doomworld."? Might be wrong about that but still I think it can prove a point.

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9 hours ago, Misty said:

You're asking people to make map for you, but yet you have nothing to show from concept art, screenshots, no mention of mapping format or size or texture pack. 


That's reserved for those who offer to do it. I give them all of that. I don't post it on the forum for everyone cause some people don't want it. And my plan is to get people to actually play it. The more shit released publicly, the more people already know about the map, and everyone will know how to beat it before trying because it'll all be out there.

 

6 hours ago, CARRiON said:

Besides, $5 is laughably low. 15 minutes and probably more would be dedicated to merely planning out the map.


To those saying it's a low price, you gotta understand that it's not because I'm being cheap, it's not because I'm not willing to pay large amounts for it, it's that I literally can't. I am constantly broke because where I live I'm not legally old enough to get a job (Believe me, I want one). I would pay a LOT more but you need to understand that I don't have a LOT more to pay you.

Also I'm the one who plans out the maps. I draw it all down, I explain it all, and someone else builds it. They don't have to plan it out or design it because I already dun did that.

 

 

5 hours ago, Pegleg said:

I don't think the notion of paying someone for drawing a map is illegal. There are probably people that take commissions to make Doom maps. That being said, while it is generally a hobby that people do for fun, $5 for a map seems a bit low, unless you are looking for a scribe. And since you claimed that you would supply the design, the layout, the texturing, and thing placement, perhaps all someone who took on this job has to do is draw linedefs in an editor and add tags for actions.


Precisely

 

 

5 hours ago, Pegleg said:

 

  • Which game will this be for?
  • What is your intended format? That will matter to some people. If it's UDMF, someone who doesn't make UDMF maps may have all the interest in the world, but would be unable to assist you. Similarly, if you wanted vanilla maps, someone with no interest in making vanilla maps might be intrigued by your idea, but wouldn't be the right person for the job.
  • What is the general size of the maps you want made? Your estimate of 15 minutes to draw everything may be meaningful or it may not. I've watched people do incredible work in very short amounts of time, and that includes texturing and thing placement. How do the sizes of the 5 maps compare with the size of the iwad levels?
  • How detailed will your map layout be? Will you send scans of drawings on graph paper, with the rooms drawn to the appropriate scale, with notes about ceiling heights and floor heights, switch locations, walkover lines, monster closets, actions that you want to happen, etc.? Or will you sketch out a quick set of lines on the back of a napkin with a few general notes? The more detail and accuracy you can provide in your drawing, the more likely someone could meet your 15 minute estimate.
  • How faithful to you want the mapper to stay to the layout you provide? Will they have any flexibility? Can they add details? Or do you expect to receive exactly what you drew and nothing more?
  • Similarly to the preceding question, will you accept feedback on your layout? If the mapper thinks that a different setup for a particular encounter would work better, will you consider that? In other words, do you consider this to be something of a collaborative effort, or do you just want a scribe who will transcribe exactly what is in your drawing into the editor? Some people might not want to be bothered with being a scribe, some people might enjoy the freedom of not having to come up with the ideas.


1. Doom II
2. Vanilla, classic format
3. There are many rooms and very many hallways but they are generally not very large. An example of room size would be that one room on MAP01 of Hell on Earth, the room with 4 lifts which each its own zombieman standing on top of it. It also has a secret with two stimpacks and a green armor. Hallway size would be around the size of the hallway on that same level leading to the room, only 1/3 longer. 
4. I prefer to keep it as close to my idea as possible unless there is some issue or potential improvement to be made. I prefer the map builder to consult me about it first and ask whether or not to add/remove something. If they want to design one of the maps themselves (Not requiring it, not even suggesting it, would only allow it if the mapper asked me themselves) I would probably say yes as it saves me part of a job and it'd be nice to play someone else's map too.
5. Yes. Not required but allowed

 

 

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I have questions...

 

When you say "design the maps", what exactly does that mean? Are you just providing ideas, or are you providing some actual map geometry?

 

And when you say you "cannot build the actual maps", does that mean you only struggle with functionality (lifts, doors, teleports, exits, etc), or does that mean you struggle with adding any kind of map geometry at all?


Providing map geometry, struggle with functionality

 

 

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you are aiming at something like 15 minutes per map


I only said the exit would take less than that. I cannot say for sure the other 5 would take the same amount.



CLEARING UP A FEW MISCONCEPTIONS:

1. No, it doesn't have to be 5$ a map. I can negotiate prices with anyone who wants to. 5$ is just what I can (maybe) afford and it is an example
2. No, it's not that I'm not willing to learn how to do it myself. It's just that I feel like the idea I came up with is the best one I have made yet. I want it to made and be as good as possible and if it's my first map and all made by myself, it won't be perfect. I know that "nothing's perfect" but perfect is an opinion that varies from person to person. Even if perfection cannot be achieved, I want the closest thing possible.
3. Yes, I have tried to learn. I have watched youtube tutorials. I have not gotten the hang of it even remotely. I get nowhere with it
4. I haven't already posted about my inability to make functional maps because I rarely even do anything doom-related in terms of creations and rarely think of it.




I get it, the doom community hates it when people ask someone else to do things they can't. But I only wanted to make an idea a reality and need someone else to do what I can't. I know some of you don't like this proposal but if you are just gonna do anything like insult me, tell me this is a horrible idea, act like I'm lazy, just don't reply to this. Reply if you have some help to offer or something positive to say. To those of you who really offered help and asked questions that would help me find some takers, thank you.

-J

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11 minutes ago, Jason said:

I get it, the doom community hates it when people ask someone else to do things they can't. But I only wanted to make an idea a reality and need someone else to do what I can't. I know some of you don't like this proposal but if you are just gonna do anything like insult me, tell me this is a horrible idea, act like I'm lazy, just don't reply to this. Reply if you have some help to offer or something positive to say. To those of you who really offered help and asked questions that would help me find some takers, thank you.

 

What?

 

I have read all of the responses and none of them come off as negative or insults to me at least. Its not the worst idea out there but id say theres a lot of better and less demanding ways to make certain doom maps to a theme and getting other people to do that too.

 

Now onto the part I bolded. Ideas dont really vanish and you can throw an idea on the backburner and maybe find an even better idea or improve and develop that existing idea while improving your skills as a mapmaker so maybe you can make it yourself one day! To me this seems like your being a little to impatient and while I do get that, you can slow down a little bit.

 

Oh yeah and if your fearful of that idea vanishing, write it down! Even then though you said you have sketched out schematics of the project already.

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9 minutes ago, nue said:

 

What?

 

I have read all of the responses and none of them come off as negative or insults to me at least. Its not the worst idea out there but id say theres a lot of better and less demanding ways to make certain doom maps to a theme and getting other people to do that too.

 

Now onto the part I bolded. Ideas dont really vanish and you can throw an idea on the backburner and maybe find an even better idea or improve and develop that existing idea while improving your skills as a mapmaker so maybe you can make it yourself one day! To me this seems like your being a little to impatient and while I do get that, you can slow down a little bit.


I'm not being impatient. I'm getting the idea out there as soon as I have it so I never forget it. I'm not rushing anything. I'm responding immeditely to these questions because some of them repeat and I don't want that.

also, no insults?

 

 

3 hours ago, Morpheus666 said:

this is very sad that someone would not be willing to try to improve there skills, I know i struggle with mapping but at least i put some effort into it.

 

8 hours ago, Arbys550 said:

I can help you. I work for $250 a map.

 

9 hours ago, elend said:

No, no, guys. It's actually worse. He only needs people to make functioning doors / switches / exits since this is something he can't be bothered to learn, it seems. 


I can't say for sure these are meant as insults but they sure as hell come off as insults to me. Maybe it's just because of past experience with this type of thing

-J

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23 minutes ago, Jason said:

I can't say for sure these are meant as insults but they sure as hell come off as insults to me.

Sorry man. It was a joke and I didn't intend to offend you. I don't usually make sarcastic posts on here, I generally like to be constructive, but I couldn't resist this time. To say something serious, I don't think anyone would help you unless you offered something more concrete. Like everyone says, there's comprehensive tutorials about everything DoomBuilder related on youtube. That's where I learned my mapping.

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12 minutes ago, Pavera said:

So let me get this straight. If I make a map for you, you'll pay me in..total exposure? :>


along with money if required. again cannot promise a large amount

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I'm putting in a counterbid of 6 dollars for a Pavera map. That's a mindblowing 16% increase from Jason's offer, imagine what you can do with a double-digit percentage like that!

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1 minute ago, esselfortium said:

I'm putting in a counterbid of 6 dollars for a Pavera map. That's a mindblowing 16% increase from Jason's offer, imagine what you can do with a double-digit percentage like that!

 

I'll put up $10 for a Pavera map, and he can take 100% of the credit!

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We doing a bidding war now?

 

$20 for a Pavera map. Massive increase over all the previous offers! Surely an offer one could not refuse.

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@Jason I understand where you are coming from, but it's not difficult to learn the basics.

 

When I started 2 years ago with my first project, I started with nothing. I learned the basics from older forums and YouTube Tutorials on my own, unless I needed assistance on something specific.

Yes, it was a headache at first, but once I practiced and practiced, it was cake walk from there.

 

I wish you the best of luck on this project.

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