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LeoNatan

Has any WAD explored heaven?

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With Eternal having at least some angelic presence in the game and lore, I was wondering if some WAD has explored possible heaven interpretations that could fit the original Doom games? Perhaps a third episode titled "Paradiso"? 😂

 

BTW, I've seen people getting "offended" that angels may be antagonists in Doom Eternal and the player being able to shoot them. Pls none of that shit here. Thx.

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I guess Deus Vult II does. It is pretty cool actually but it's really short unfortunately.

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2 minutes ago, OniriA said:

Eviternity

Just noticed this thread:

On my to-play list. Somehow I missed this impressive WAD.

 

4 minutes ago, Scorpius said:

I guess Deus Vult II does. It is pretty cool actually but it's really short unfortunately.

Doesn't look very interesting to me, but thanks!

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The presence of Heaven (whether in Doom Eternal or WADs) does bring a lot of implications with it. In Doom, demons have little/no religious significance, and are basically just Themed Bad Guys. In the Doom setting, Hell is not a place of sin; when you go there, you're not there to atone for your sins or contemplate God, but to kick ass and chew bubble gum. The only religion you experience is when you find your first BFG.

 

But Heaven makes it a religion thing. Makes it a Christian thing. (Do you meet Jesus? Is he on your side? Does he wield an even Bigger FG? Are you Jesus?) And since Heaven is (presumably) diametrically opposite of Hell, that means its Hell becomes a religion thing too.

 

Which I'm not opposed to; I wonder what they can do with that. The Doom Eternal promotions so far say that they aspire to creating a whole "Doom universe", something larger in scope than just some techbase levels. Perhaps this goes well beyond simply using Hell as something to drive a power plant.

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@Rainne In that case, why is it "Hell" and not just "another dimension #197390123"? The connotation of religious imagery is already there, even if for "Metal!!11" reasons.

 

Just like in Doom's hell you don't meet any of the usual suspects, you don't have to in that version of heaven. I don't see why Doomguy can't kick angelic ass and still chew bubble gum, if he's not out of it.

 

In Eternal, the "angels" seem like the ultimate masterminds behind the whole hell invasion.

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Taking from my post, which has the (technically) same question of yours...

Quote

Ancient Aliens MAP24.

The 6th episode of Eviternity

MAP32 of Bloodstain

Hell Revealed MAP24

Bossbattles' first map

 

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I'm gonna go ahead and say that I'm a Christian, and I LOVE Doom. I'm okay if some people wanna portray heaven in Doom Eternal. These are just games. Unless they go too far with the idea of the Doom Slayer fighting angels... I hope it doesn't become disrespectful to anyone. 

And yes, I do know you said no talking about the combat in heaven in Doom Eternal, but I had to get it off my chest.

Really sorry.

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Does hell ground count? I've seen heaven-like architecture in there somewhere

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2 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Hell Revealed MAP24

Interesting. Never thought about that one as a heaven level.

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5 hours ago, Skullhacker said:

I'm gonna go ahead and say that I'm a Christian, and I LOVE Doom.


Sandy Peterson is a Mormon and didn't mind the game bc it's about killing demons, "I have no problems with the demons in the game. They're just cartoons. And, anyway, they're the bad guys." (Masters of Doom P 117)
 

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Soo....to stay on topic. Eviternity has an mad angel that is corrupted by hell and you go through weak ass looking heaven levels. Not satisfying with the heaven concept but it looks candy shit enough to pass.

 

On the other off-topic thing, religion sucks and if ID is tanking a religious concept they are gonna have one public relations fire to sort with the non-believers.

Edited by warman2012

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There's HEVNHELL.wad, I'll quote the textfile:

                          Literally Heaven and Hell. If you can't figure
                          out which way to go to get to Heaven when you
                          start this level you need help. Heaven is simply
                          a large stockpile of weapons, armor, and health
                          bonuses (Apparently the NRA was right). There are
                          also a few of Hell's more putrid denizens placed
                          in cages for your safety and viewing pleasure, so
                          take the opportunity to waste them. Every type of
                          weapon is available in Heaven except for the BFG
                          (is there one? Go to Hell to find out).

                              ****

                          This level isn't
                          meant to be tricky or witty, it is purely kill
                          kill kill kill kill kill jump kill.....

Amusingly, in the 'Known Bugs' section, he seems confused about the 'leaking radsuit' thing:

                          ...in the corridor with the large skull key doors
                          the game seems to like to inflict damage on you
                          even if you have a radsuit and there aren't any
                          monsters around. This is not a result of paper
                          thin walls, and seems to happen randomly, but
                          it does happen quite often in that particular
                          area. If anyone knows what causes this to happen
                          even when walls are two linedefs thick, please
                          let me know.

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I'm not sure what the point about "paper-thin walls" is about, or what it means for a wall to be "two linedefs thick".

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Whenever i think of Heaven in Doom, i think of something that parallels Hell.

Like how Hell was made and worked and how it could apply to Heaven to make it fit Doom. (while adding some more unique stuff)

Because between Doom Eternal's Urdak and wads like Eviternity, i like to imagine something more that tries to come off as a "What If The Old id Software Put Heaven In Doom?", even if i do it wrong.

 

Hell in itself technically looked like Hell and had some elements and references you'd associate with Hell but at the same time, some elements from horror, science fiction, fantasy and a lot more "outside" material.

It's like a combo of ideas that makes the setting unique and abstract, while allowing for some mapping potential even.

 

So this is how i think Heaven could be like:

* Know the Evil Eye candles in OG Hell? They could be similar but with the symbols resembling yellow crosses instead.

* Some Angelic/Heaven symbols for teleporters like the ones you'd find in Hell.

* Maybe some tall pillars and some architecture inspired by greek/roman architecture like arcs or some medieval/middle age elements.

* Diamond switches or switches with golden chains/buttons, as a response to eye/skull switches.

* Floating bells or some floating things holding bells to parallel the floating rocks with skulls.

* Stuff with trees and flowers to replace the flesh and meat of Hell.

* Stained glass windows and paintings, to replace the nailed skin walls like the one based off Adrian Carmack/Kevin Cloud's knee wound texture.

* Stone/marbel/iron face portraits could be angels, Jesus, God, some other tradional religious characters or even a "classic" Kahn Maykr.

* Textures resembling clouds, some of which being "transparent" so they're like the iron bars and gates, so they have gaps/"holes" in them, while also being placed as moving textures. (like horizontal moving textures)

* Golden gates and doors.

* Some props could have halos/rings above them. (that Urdak temple even has a giant ring above it)

* Something rainbow related? Like a path/corridor floor or a bridge.

* Some Maykr/Urdak elements like white/red tubes/tech, black rock, red trees and cross holograms. (Hell always had tech so i can see Heaven having some as well, even if it's not the main focus)

* Their own FIREBLU, like uh... GOLDCYAN? (was cyan a color in the original game's palette?)

* Snow and ice, to contrast Hell's focus on lava and fire.

* To contrast that skull computer switch from Doom 2: a golden tree with computer screens attached.

* Some Hell level geometry being represented like the upside down cross hole from E2M1 but it's a proper cross or a reverse intro of E3M1 where you're rising down from above instead of rising up from a hole. (get it because Heaven = sky and Hell = beneath the Earth haha)

* They could have wood and bookshelves.

* A ceiling hanging candelabra.

* Chess floor tiles.

* For colors: blue is more common and red is less common.

* Fountains and wells?

* Purple neon lights because of tech in Heaven.

* Giant halos above stuff that are technically ceiling sectors.

* Maybe flags and banners like Doom 2's?

* References to stuff like "Hallelujah" as a word in a level name.

* Some of the music could be some songs in major key or some "happy" sounding versions of certain songs.

* Maybe take some bits from Mick Gordon's music and put them in more "Bobby Prince" like music.

* Some levels being easy to contrast Hell being hard or is that kinda dumb?

* Power ups could be crystals or something?

* For barrels, maybe some wooden barrels or even giant glass bottles/flasks with Holy Water in them, that also have golden rings around, some cross on top/on the cork and some tiny gold legs as support. (one for explosive and the other to replace the burning barrel prop)

* I know keys get to be "cross keys" with red/blue/yellow variants.

* What about an Intermission Screen Map? (this mean applying the concept to both Doom ONE and TWO, sort of like: Shores of Heaven, Paradiso, Heaven on Earth and beyond/more, probably)

For enemies/characters:

* Angels could be traditional angels but less humanoid like with blue skin or some not-so-human aspect to them and the could be the Imps.

* Maybe centaurs and lions?

* Knights like the Night Sentinel ones that serve under Heaven?

* "Blessed" Soldiers/Humans.

* Eagles?

* For Cacodemons, have like giant thick rings with multiple eyes.

* Lost Souls could be Cherubs.

* A Jesus Mech: Basically mech robots that look like Jesus' head in a Transformer/Gundam like body because uh...

* A classic Kahn Maykr: A female angel statue with a brain shaped like a pope hat/papal tiara and golden feathers.

* Not sure where i'd put the Maykr Drones.

* Some enemy type could use a crossbow as a weapon. (either angels or knights)

* Some hooded figure with light coming out, that covers their face.

* Something horse related.

* Some or one type of enemy could have wooden wheels like a wagon.

This probably would require a lot more than just replacing Hell assets like replacing some from UAC/Earth as well, if it were a megawad done just to explore a Doom Heaven.

I feel like Heaven wouldn't be that morally good, but they could have some "goody goody" image to contrast Hell being blatantly evil.

 

As for Doom 64:

* If Hell was mostly gothic and atmospheric, i guess Heaven can be more "classical" or Romanesque for its architecture and their versions of Gargoyles statues could be angel statues?

* Also a Angelic version of the Unmake- I mean... Demon Laser or rather Angel Laser. (Something akin to the Doom 2 RPG Holy Water Pistol maybe?)

 

And for Doom 3:

* Heaven would have beautiful temples and buildings corrupted/invaded by Hell and the horror would increase because of the idea that everything is fucked when not even Heaven can make it, since even Martians had trouble with Hell.

* Cherubs would turn out to be Heaven ones turned into what they are in Doom 3.

* Maybe a cutscene of a poor angel guy getting crushed by a Hellknight.

* Doom 3's Hell and demons were said to look a bit "alien", so i wonder how could that apply to Heaven.

 

Heaven in Doom has a lot of potential that i fear if the Urdak we're getting in Eternal is the only time it happens.

Most of its potential would make more sense of a different lore/version of the setting and different art direction.

My ideas are either not so good or too good to come from me that i feel like someone could have thought of this instead of me.

Edited by whatup876 : adding more, even more, fix, even more

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9 hours ago, whatup876 said:

* Floating bells or some floating things holding bells to parallel the floating rocks with skulls.

* Stuff with trees and flowers to replace the flesh and meat of Hell.

* Stained glass windows and paintings, to replace the nailed skin walls like the one based off Adrian Carmack/Kevin Cloud's knee wound texture.

* Golden gates and doors.

* Snow and ice, to contrast Hell's focus on lava and fire.

* They could have wood and bookshelves.

* For colors: blue is more common and red is less common.

* Fountains and wells?

* Maybe flags and banners like Doom 2's?

* Power ups could be crystals or something?

* For barrels, maybe some wooden barrels or even giant glass bottles/flasks with Holy Water in them, that also have golden rings around, some cross on top/on the cork and some tiny gold legs as support. (one for explosive and the other to replace the burning barrel prop)

* I know keys get to be "cross keys" with red/blue/yellow variants.

* Maybe centaurs and lions?

🤔 Sounds a lot like Heretic and/or Hexen, like maybe your idea could start there. Or just pilfer their resources for a Doom project like everyone else.

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Kinda.

Oh and hooded figures (with light coming out) and some creatures with crossbows too. (either the angels or the knights)

But i thought of it in an "If it came from classic Doom" context so the designs would have to be made from scratch and with some spin like "what if the centaurs where cybernetic" to make it stand out a bit from Heretic/Hexen.

 

Basically, this is mostly a fanfiction thing and almost a headcanon of mine. (probably from a misguided view)

Honestly, if it was an actual complete, polished and fun megawad, it'd be the kind that i think should be "official" like showing up in Bethesda's new port as a "curated" addon.

It sounds ridiculous and silly, but i just like to imagine impossible (and probably dumb) things i guess and let it out of my mind.

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On 1/18/2020 at 3:59 PM, warman2012 said:

On the other off-topic thing, religion sucks and if ID is tanking a religious concept they are gonna have one public relations fire to sort with the non-believers.

Id already took potshots at SJWs with thr "mortaly challenged" joke so they're pretty much not afraid of anyone at this point.

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I tried to make one once but i kinda gave up on it due to a coding error, that didn't want to fix itself even after my attempts.

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Well, not to answer OP's question too literally, but HeavenGuard.wad on Realm 667 was made some time before 2011 & featured this guy:

 

image.png.11b51af71ab68a93235eb527984df190.png

 

No map though! :)

 

The Heaven theme's been a topic on here for at least about a decade then & it's been fun watching the screenshot threads display works-in-progress on it, until Evilution finally brouhgt a full fledged mega to bear involving it. Not sure who first got the now kinda established "white & gold" texture theme going?

 

Anyone?

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That Heavenguird guy almost hits close to a concept of possessed humans but from Heaven instead of Hell.

I thought of something like Zombiemen but without green hair and red eyes and instead with a halo and yellow/golden eyes.

 

But that Storm Trooper Doomguy Corvus mix still looks cool for what it is.

Like a higher level UAC guard.

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:59 AM, warman2012 said:

Eviternity has an mad angel that is corrupted by hell

 

I never saw him as mad exactly. Arrogant, self-righteous, terribly fully of himself yes, but not mad. He also was never corrupted by Hell (although some maps were originally designed with that idea in mind).

 

Instead the idea was the enemies you fight were created by the angel himself. They're attacking you because the angel wills them to: he isn't the biggest fan of angry space marines coming to kick his ass, and sends them to stop you. Basically he gets too big for his boots, so Doomguy rocks up to slap some sense into him.

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I thought the thread title said 'exploded' at first. Go to heaven and blow it up. :D

 

Anyhow, I always took Doom's hell to be more of a different dimension kind of thing. Not really sure where all this heaven stuff is going.

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To add up more ideas:

* A ceiling hanging candellebra?

* One enemy type has wooden wheels like a wagon.

* Chess floor tiles.

* Maybe something horse related for an enemy/character.

 

Also, when i think of applying it to classic Doom, it'd be both Doom ONE and TWO, so they still get their equivalent of an intermission screen map but also a lot of other assets/maps/etc to be about them.

 

So, Shores of Heaven, Paradiso and Heaven On Earth? I still thought of UAC/Earth sprites getting changed to expand the theme and i can't see Heaven carrying the "world eating/corrupting" bit of Hell perhaps.

 

But anyway, this seems to be a lot now, unless there's something more to add.

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