Nightmare : Why it was NEVER meant to be played

[TheNoob_Gamer]

1 minute ago, Skullhacker said:

 You don't need to personally attack me because of a stupid thing I said.

That may be a joke. Don't take it too seriously, bud.

[CyberDreams]

2 hours ago, Optimus said:

Nightmare seemed like a too sudden jump in difficulty. I would have preferred if there was an inbetween mode where the monsters are as fast as in NM but don't teleport again (I know there must be a fast monsters options somewhere).

Yeah. I tried playing a few levels of Doom II on Nightmare and i got annihilated. I did the same thing on UV -fast and i still got messed up really quick. I'll stick with regular UV.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

1 hour ago, Skullhacker said:

Consider levels like E4M1, E4M2, E4M6 and E4M8. Also consider Tnt Evilution and Plutonia. Also consider stuff like Sunlust and Hell Revealed. I know that Doom is pretty easy if you've played it for a long time, but there are lots of popular megawads that defined Doom for us and gave it the reputation it deserves. Because of this, Doom is still one of the most brutal games ever.

Aside from sunlust none of those come close to notoriously difficult territory, but it isn't an iwad so using it as a benchmark would be like saying skyrim is hard because I modded dragons to have instakill lava breathe. E4s difficulty is pretty much an overblown meme. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Skullhacker said:

Also consider stuff like Sunlust and Hell Revealed

I would like to draw your attention to the following:

Hell Revealed DSDArchive: https://www.dsdarchive.com/wads/hr

Sunlust DSDArchive: https://www.dsdarchive.com/wads/sunlust

 

You may notice that many of the maps have at least  NMspeed entries, if not NM100 entries.

[seed]

9 minutes ago, Pegg said:

E4s difficulty is pretty much an overblown meme. 

 

Yep.

 

Sure, at the time it was made it was considered difficult, but that statement no longer holds true. Also from that list, TNT isn't a good example as its difficulty is almost identical to Doom 2's and it was never considered fairly difficult at any point in history afaik.

[Kain-]

I Platinumed Doom 1 and Doom 2. Both required to beat the game on Nightmare.

Doom 1 wasn't that hard, but Doom 2... 

Jesus Christ does it test your patience... Anyone who has attempted to get the Plat Trophy in Doom 2 will get a shiver down their spine when they hear

 

The Walking End

[seed]

Problem with NM in Doom 2 is that there's lots of hitscanners on many levels, making it stupidly easy to die to them if you don't approach these maps with an optimal strategy.

 

Ultimate Doom also has its annoyances, I hate E4M6 for that teleporter in the center.

[Mortrixs19]

24 minutes ago, seed said:

Ultimate Doom also has its annoyances, I hate E4M6 for that teleporter in the center.

Don't forget about the pinkies and the spectres, playing UD on nightmare actually makes me miss the SSG.

 

 

[seed]

20 minutes ago, Mortrixs19 said:

Don't forget about the pinkies and the spectres, playing UD on nightmare actually makes me miss the SSG.

 

Nah, those are fine, especially if you go for the Plasma and RL secrets.

 

I hate that teleporter because the way it works always confuses me even after all this time, I always end up doing something supremely stupid because of it and die -_-.

[Wereknight]

3 hours ago, Skullhacker said:

You don't need to personally attack me because of a stupid thing I said.

Like I attacked ya, oi!

 

Nobody had attacked you, pal, learn some humor 101 if you think otherwise, please.

[doomsucksass]

7 hours ago, cybdmn said:

 

More trivia: Did you know, that there is another, better maintained, and not bullshit-ads infested DoomWiki?

Adblock...

[ReaperAA]

@Nine Inch Heels Believe it or not I am recently playing Valiant and I am on the 5th episode. Was feeling really proud of myself right now after managing to survive map 25,26 and 27 on UV without dying yet.

 

BUT after watching your NM100s Map 29 demo, I now feel depressed 🤣. Damn I ain't never gonna reach that level. Nicely played.

Edited January 19, 2020 by ReaperAA

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

BUT after watching your NM100s Map 29 demo, I now feel depressed 🤣. Damn I ain't never gonna reach that level.

It's not a very hard run. It does involve a bit of luck though.

[seed]

10 minutes ago, doomsucksass said:

Adblock...

 

It still runs like crap, and the mobile version even more so.

 

Also the content isn't of the same quality, despite Doomwiki potentially missing some things here and there.

[Edward850]

1 minute ago, seed said:

Also the content isn't of the same quality, despite Doomwiki potentially missing some things here and there.

If Doomwiki is missing something, put it in, don't just say it's missing. It's a wiki, it's supposed to be edited by the public.

[seed]

Just now, Edward850 said:

If Doomwiki is missing something, put it in, don't just say it's missing. It's a wiki, it's supposed to be edited by the public.

 

I know, and if I do find more stuff I'll add it, but I'm not actively browsing through Fandom since it runs like crap.

 

Last time I did, however, I added the trivia about the Xbox version of E4M1 after seeing things for myself.

[Rainne]

"Nightmare isn't meant to be played."

 

"Wrong! I play it and do well!"

 

Posts like that don't actually refute the original point. If you weren't meant to do something, and you do it anyway, that doesn't mean you were meant to do it. If you don't allow yourself to do something without approval, and thus need to invent approval after the fact whenever you go off-road, you're selling yourself very short.

 

You're not meant to play on Nightmare in the same sense that you're not "meant" to speedrun the game either. They are unnecessary challenges defined as an extension of the core gameplay rather than as a fundamental part of it. ^{(Meta-games, in the original sense of the term.)} The fact that a thriving scene has built up around doing it anyway doesn't change the fact that doing so is going beyond Doom itself.

[Skullhacker]

3 hours ago, Wereknight said:

Like I attacked ya, oi!

 

Nobody had attacked you, pal, learn some humor 101 if you think otherwise, please.

I know. I'm sorry. I'm just very very sensitive stupid.

[Skullhacker]

1 hour ago, Rainne said:

"Nightmare isn't meant to be played."

 

"Wrong! I play it and do well!"

 

Posts like that don't actually refute the original point. If you weren't meant to do something, and you do it anyway, that doesn't mean you were meant to do it. If you don't allow yourself to do something without approval, and thus need to invent approval after the fact whenever you go off-road, you're selling yourself very short.

 

You're not meant to play on Nightmare in the same sense that you're not "meant" to speedrun the game either. They are unnecessary challenges defined as an extension of the core gameplay rather than as a fundamental part of it. ^{(Meta-games, in the original sense of the term.)} The fact that a thriving scene has built up around doing it anyway doesn't change the fact that doing so is going beyond Doom itself.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I get it. A lot of people are teasing me about the name of this forum. But I'm not gonna take it too seriously because I know that you didn't wanna attack me, and I respect that.

[Skullhacker]

I've gotta stop making idiotic statements and looking like a moron on the internet. 😐

[Skullhacker]

6 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

That may be a joke. Don't take it too seriously, bud.

Okay. Thank you.

[RonnieJamesDiner]

@Nine Inch Heels That NM run on Cyberwar 7734 just knocked my socks off. I just recently played that map for the first time (and Valiant in general), so I was actually able to appreciate the hell out of that video. I spent probably 3x the amount of time and energy trying to get through Cyberwar on UV than any other map in that entire set, it really kicked my ass. That NM run is just crazy to me though -- that final moment, where you're busting through the line of Pyrodemons and Cybie, dipping to 16% HP with the exit around the corner... ugh! Heart attack central.

 

8 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

From the "I make maps perspective", nightmare is still a largely unexplored "design-space", waiting for determined mappers. The skill setting has unique traits, all of which could be used in order to facilitate new styles of encounters, with their own gameplay meta.

 

I remember reading in another thread, you were talking about exploring this idea for yourself, making some NM-specific maps. You still working towards that?

[Maser]

I guess it's a bit of a rite of passage to play Nightmare difficulty.  Personally, I don't care for it simply because if I'm not having fun, then I don't play and Nightmare mode is not fun for me because it forces me to speedrun the game which I don't like doing.  I've done the entirety of E1 and tried a few Doom 2 maps, so that's pretty much my claim to fame.  I do eventually wanna try Industrial Zone on Nightmare just to see how awful that is.  

[Redneckerz]

5 hours ago, seed said:

 

It still runs like crap, and the mobile version even more so.

 

Also the content isn't of the same quality, despite Doomwiki potentially missing some things here and there.

Offtopic, but hand me a list of stuff Fandom has and Wiki does not and ill add it in before doing anything else.

 

Its time the Fandom Wiki stops being a viable option. There is a reason why there is an official Wiki.

[Super Mighty G]

By all accounts its a joke difficulty for masochists. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

8 hours ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

You still working towards that?

I am currently working on the palette for that, because I want sort of a more bleak overall look than something that has lots of crazy colours. When I have that palette in an acceptable state I'll have a look at what resources might be useful. That's when I'd start mapping, but not before.

[amackert]

16 hours ago, Skullhacker said:

Doom is still one of the most brutal games ever.

 

DOOM, is not.

 

DOOM MODS, can be.

[idbeholdME]

I don't do speedrunning so I don't play NM. Simple as that.

 

Nightmare by its design requires you to speedrun everything or die horribly. Which is 100% the opposite of the way I prefer to play games.

 

21 hours ago, Kapanyo said:

You can use the -fast parameter on startup. This has its own speedrunning category iirc, and some people play on UV with this setting. However, I don't think it fully replicates the Nightmare fast settings, since I don't think it makes monsters react any faster like they do in Nightmare.

Actually, that is the reason I created my custom difficulty and auto-load it with every WAD. To have the monsters react the same way as in NM. I just used the Nightmare difficulty definition and removed the respawn and double ammo part.

 

I don't think a lot of people know that there is a difference in reaction times of monsters when playing with -fast vs Nightmare but I remember reading about it a while back. That is when I stopped playing on UV -fast.

 

EDIT:

Also on topic of custom difficulties, does anybody know what the "aggressiveness" value does in a difficulty definition for GZDoom? I couldn't find any info on that. Zdoom wiki just says aggressiveness and nothing else - https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO/Skill_definition

 

Any input on that and what it does? Does the original Doom even have such a value? If so, what is the default?

Edited January 20, 2020 by idbeholdME

[Guest Unregistered account]

I started a Nightmare run of KDiTD very recently and honestly, as scary as the "main" components of the difficulty sound, the single thing I'm most terrified of now is the reaction speed monsters have. I learned very quickly to fear Shotgunners instantly killing me if I don't creep around corners with insane care, meanwhile I've also got the nagging anxiety that there's monsters respawning behind me screaming at me to hurry up and move on, and that level of juxtaposition and stress creates an adrenaline rush that I haven't felt in Doom before.

[drfrag]

Try Unholy Massacre with RUDE (my Chocolate limit removing fork) for a real (and playable) challenge. Currently runs on SDL1 but i've merged with Choco3 and now it compiles and runs again (i will release a test build soon). About UM try to use the pistol and the punch as much as possible.