Snek Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) So I always had a dream of releasing Megawad. Please, please forgive me if this question will seem stupid or anything, I am still a newbie at all this. I got into doom mapping year ago, but my projects never got anywhere due to lack of time (you know, job, etc). I always wanted to make 32-level megawad but sadly I usually had irl issues that didn't let me have much time. I am not that great with level design, so I wanted to ask the community a quite stupid question, but one that was on back of my mind. I want to create old-school, classic style Doom 2 WAD. Is it alright if I help myself with Oblige level generator to generate 32-level wad, then re-design some levels, add more detail, change textures, sprites, weapons, etc and release it pretty much as Megawad? Is that frowned upon? I honestly don't think I will be able to design megawad alone. I have few small levels in the works, and I am aware that it may sound really stupid, but I really don't like doing small wads.. or more like I don't like small wads at all. I like fully fledged wads with lots of levels and such. Again, I hope you won't bash me for asking this, but I did want to actually try doing something large. Maybe I am biting more than I can chew, but perhaps Oblige can help me with allievating some of time constraints. @EDIT: I can't reply today to any more messages because of daily limit :c Edited January 19, 2020 by Snek 2 Share this post Link to post
Impboy4 Posted January 19, 2020 That's like taking an existing piece of art made by a famous person, adding more to it, and then calling it your own when clearly it's not. You're better off just mapping from scratch. 0 Share this post Link to post
Snek Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) Well not exactly, I'd credit oblige and it's author. I was talking adding my own levels to existing generated wad and mod the generated ones. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I always credit my sources c: 2 Share this post Link to post
Impboy4 Posted January 19, 2020 Well, any generated content should be only used for inspiration for making maps from scratch. It's considered lazy when you edit. 2 Share this post Link to post
Snek Posted January 19, 2020 Oh well I am doing level from scratch now, but i didn't know that using oblige as inspiration is alright. 1 Share this post Link to post
cambreaKer Posted January 19, 2020 well, if you say that the maps were made by you and oblige it's alright 4 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted January 19, 2020 I think you can do whatever you want mate! if you want to generate some oblige levels, modify and release em, there's nothing wrong with that. imo you should do whatever makes mapping most fun and easy to bring yourself to do (so long as you're not stepping on anyone's toes by stealing maps or something), and if that's modifying oblige maps, then more power to you. making a full megawad from scratch is pretty daunting though and that's why most folks advise starting with either some single map or small episodes first, but that's not to say that you shouldn't follow your oblige dreams if that's what you want to do! for what it's worth, some mappers release their from-scratch works with permissive re-use licenses (Mechadon's Counterattack is one such example), so there are other maps out there you could use as a base too if you're so inclined. though oblige maps are probably somewhat of a sweet spot in terms of how much is done vs how much potential there is to be made nicer, which you wouldn't get by using something more complete like Counterattack as a base. 10 Share this post Link to post
Snek Posted January 19, 2020 Oh, well then judge this: http://prntscr.com/qpxq7j http://prntscr.com/qpxpp1 I made this from scratch. It's just a random level I was working on. 6 Share this post Link to post
cambreaKer Posted January 19, 2020 Just now, Snek said: Oh, well then judge this: http://prntscr.com/qpxq7j http://prntscr.com/qpxpp1 I made this from scratch. It's just a random level I was working on. That looks very good! 0 Share this post Link to post
kknot5889 Posted January 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Snek said: Oh, well then judge this: http://prntscr.com/qpxq7j http://prntscr.com/qpxpp1 I made this from scratch. It's just a random level I was working on. That's looking really good, man. Keep that sort of thing up and you'd have no reason to use Oblige. Good luck with the megawad! 6 Share this post Link to post
Nymbus_Hustle Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Impboy4 said: It's considered lazy when you edit. Even if it's considered lazy, if Snek edited it enough it'd be indistinguishable from a "real" megawad. For me, gameplay is more important purity testing some rando mapset on the internet. I'd rather good content get made then have people make pure 100% og content that never gets released.@Snek Imo, it's more problematic to just jump into megawad design. Wouldn't it be easier to focus in one like a three-five level mapset then it would be to work on a 32 level megwad? After all in your op you said that you don't have the time to map, so how would you have the time to make a 32 level mapset? I've never used Oblige but I'd imagine it won't carry you as far as making your own maps from scratch or teach you as much. 1 Share this post Link to post
RonnieJamesDiner Posted January 19, 2020 If you're dead-set on making a 32-map megawad, I'd recommend coming up with a solid 5 or 6 episode structure -- conceptually speaking -- and working at it bit by bit. Each episode could be a different theme (techbase, hell, city, ancient ruins, mars surface, void, etc.), but each episode would only wind up being 5 or 6 levels long, and tackling one episode at a time becomes a much less daunting task. As you complete an episode, you can release it as a beta, get a feedback loop going, and keep progressing from there. If you get through all of the episodes, you'll find yourself with a fully completed, from-scratch, megawad. That said, if you prefer to take the Oblige route, like Tango said, more power to you. Whatever you're most comfortable and happy with. You can certainly edit Oblige levels enough to be indistinguishable from their original state. 3 Share this post Link to post
Dorchaigh Posted January 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, Snek said: Oh, well then judge this: http://prntscr.com/qpxq7j http://prntscr.com/qpxpp1 I made this from scratch. It's just a random level I was working on. It looks fantastic! I suggest using oblige as inspiration and giving your own flare per say 1 Share this post Link to post
reflex17 Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Snek said: Is it alright if I help myself with Oblige level generator to generate 32-level wad, then re-design some levels, add more detail, change textures, sprites, weapons, etc and release it pretty much as Megawad? Is that frowned upon? Not necessarily frowned upon, 32 levels generated by oblige will not be the most exciting for others to play, even if a bunch of the variables are changed the maps come out with similar structure and concepts. It's a random generator and this can't be avoided. By the time you finish detailing and enhancing 32 oblige maps you will have learned enough that you might want to start a new thing that's more personal anyway. I can't speak for everyone but I would rather play 5 or 10 maps that have been worked on as opposed to any amount of oblige-based maps, even if the maps start out rough and improve as you go, that's fine. You can alter the pre-generated levels all you like but if you change them radically enough then it will almost be like it's your own level, and you might feel cheated of the satisfaction of having started it from the beginning. I would say it's better to learn the basics and chip away when you have the time. Not every set has to be a huge 32 level epic journey, but it is possible to make those by yourself especially if you learn good speedmapping techniques. In the end a custom map built by an author is almost always more fun than something partially generated by RNG. There is full intent there and you will never find your own mapping style if oblige is always the starting point. There is support for either method in the thread, so do what not only makes you most happy now, but also what you think will do so in the future. The screenshots you posted of the level from scratch look promising and I encourage you to try your best with whatever option you choose. 4 Share this post Link to post
Scorpius Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Snek said: Oh, well then judge this: http://prntscr.com/qpxq7j http://prntscr.com/qpxpp1 I made this from scratch. It's just a random level I was working on. Looking good, especially the outside picture. Would love to see what else you can come up with. 0 Share this post Link to post
Doom_Dude Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) Screens look good Snek. Over the years I've tried some different things for making levels. At one point I had a Slige map that I was hacking at to make a decent map. I eventually ditched it because I found that it's easier to build something from scratch, rather than trying to fix all the generated weirdness I didn't like. haha. 32 maps, even small ones is a large task. I really advise to make s smaller set or even one large map to get started. That's all up to you tho. The main thing is to have fun and good luck. :) 1 Share this post Link to post
Faceman2000 Posted January 19, 2020 I’ve found editing levels I don’t like to make them more fun has taught me a ton about map design and what’s does and doesn’t work for me, as well as helping me learn how to make full use of the editors without having the daunting task of starting from scratch while knowing nothing. That being said, that’s just a tool I’ve used to practice and learn. The end goal has always been designing and making my own levels and I think you’ll find there’s a lot of joy in making your own stuff from scratch. 2 Share this post Link to post
ENEMY!!! Posted January 19, 2020 I briefly considered doing some sort of modified Oblige wad a couple of years ago, but I figured that if I wanted to make something that fitted my visions it would take at least as much work to modify Oblige-generated maps as it would to make maps from scratch, which defeats the point really. But I think there's merit in using Oblige-generated maps as sources of ideas that can inspire your own maps. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kappes Buur Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Snek said: ... Is it alright if I help myself with Oblige level generator to generate 32-level wad, then re-design some levels, add more detail, change textures, sprites, weapons, etc and release it pretty much as Megawad? ... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. You might even want to use the ObAddon plugin. Just mention that the base maps were done with Oblige in the text file. 1 Share this post Link to post
Lila Feuer Posted January 19, 2020 I could see Oblige being fun to tinker with, but not as some replacement to actual mapping. Just like it shouldn't be a replacement for playing PWADs. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kappes Buur Posted January 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said: ... Just like it shouldn't be a replacement for playing PWADs. What then would you call playing Oblige generated pwads. Just curious :) 1 Share this post Link to post
RonnieJamesDiner Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said: What then would you call playing Oblige generated pwads. Just curious :) OWADS, of course! 8 Share this post Link to post
Mechazawa Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) Oblige with Obaddon generates maps good enough to be indistinguishable from low to mid-tier by-hand maps. Other than a few of my favorite megawads, I don't honestly notice much of a difference any more between generated maps and hand crafted ones, at the low to mid tier level of mapper skill. A masterpiece that's handcrafted will always out class what oblige can make.. for now. The only problem I would see is if you dont mention a level was made with oblige, in large part due to the fact that a huge part of obaddon IS the inclusion of so many handcrafted parts. So, it may seem you have a skill that you really don't. Plenty of art forms are based off taking something someone else did and altering it, just be upfront if someone asks you however. Many games use procedural generation, it doesn't make those games any less valid. Warframe is 100% procedural generation; the maps still look amazing. The artists still have great skill. 0 Share this post Link to post
reflex17 Posted January 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Faceman2000 said: I’ve found editing levels I don’t like to make them more fun has taught me a ton about map design and what’s does and doesn’t work for me, as well as helping me learn how to make full use of the editors without having the daunting task of starting from scratch while knowing nothing. 100% true, this way to approach it helped me a lot as well. My first map or two I would just delete all the monsters and items and redo them because I didn't understand anything else yet. 1 Share this post Link to post
Juza Posted January 20, 2020 That would be quite cheap. If you actually had any wish to make levels and bring your ideas to life, you wouldn't use a program to make the levels for you in the first place. You shouldn't worry about time. The average megawad takes months to years to be completed, even if made by multiple authors. 2 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted January 20, 2020 Not too long ago, I did an Oblige modification (just one map). I wanted it to be passable as my own but I also intentionally left in a few giveaways for discerning eyes. The process was quite fun and interesting, but I want to stress that in my opinion, if you're going to do it well, the Oblige route is really not going to save you any time or creativity. In fact, I would encourage you to generate maps with zero monsters and do all the combat yourself, among other practically necessary major changes. If you wanted to see what I did, take a look here. All that being said, map how you want to map. It's quite easy to do a fully original map(set) cheaply or lazily too. 1 Share this post Link to post
Redneckerz Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) One can also try Radge by @jval for a different random level generator. See also: 2 Share this post Link to post
Snek Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Some more screenshots from the map I am making: http://prntscr.com/qqfgq7 http://prntscr.com/qqfh6e Give critique c: Just keep in mind I am aiming only for Classic feel and I only use Doom 2 textures. I want to use outside textures so does anyone know or have link to good ice/snow textures or snowy wall/ground? Edited January 20, 2020 by Snek 1 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Snek said: Some more screenshots from the map I am making: http://prntscr.com/qqfgq7 http://prntscr.com/qqfh6e Give critique c: Just keep in mind I am aiming only for Classic feel and I only use Doom 2 textures. I want to use outside textures so does anyone know or have link to good ice/snow textures or snowy wall/ground? I think those screenshots look like a good techbase, and definitely feels like a classic-type level. I like the lighting in the first shot, too. I feel like there are definitely specters waiting to ambush me in the darkness. If you're looking for IWAD-like textures that will feel reasonably classic, but still show ice/snow and snowy walls, look at Whitemare (https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/v-z/whitemar). You can also look at the texture packs here and here (hopefully, the links still work, since both pages are from 2017). 0 Share this post Link to post
