Compartmentalising for the sake of sanity?

[Doomkid]

My ability to function in life is somewhat contingent on forcing myself not to think too critically when I spend money. The reason for this is that, depending on where I’m spending it, I have a decent idea where that money will end up after I spend it.

 

At this point it’s well known, and even embraced in some circles, that an unfortunately high number of companies rely on unscrupulous (see: evil) means of creating their products, and that’s setting aside treatment of their workers. 

 

Chocolate is picked by starving child slaves, clothing is made using sweatshop labour, production of gasoline undeniably does irreversible damage to the ecosystem, most livestock live in abhorrent conditions, and so on and so on..

 

I can ignore it for long bouts, but inevitably there come times where these facts weigh heavy on my psyche. This aspect of my life and mind can best be described as a constant cycle of denial and guilt, consistently feeding into one another.

 

It’s been ongoing for so long now, and at different times in my life I’ve been able to find ways to ignore it or force it to the background, but sometimes I’m at a loss for how to do so. I don’t mean to come across as overdramatic - I know this is a common thing and I would say that I’m lucky to have the life that I do. This feeling impairs me sometimes though and prevents me from being a better version of myself.

 

With all this stuff said, I have two questions:

 

1) How do people compartmentalise so effectively when spending their money? How are they able to be so carefree in their direct financial support of slavery and other abhorrent practices?

 

2) Which of the many businesses in this corporate oligarchy are “less evil” compared to the baseline? I ask so I can at least have some places to spend my money without crushing guilt.

 

Since everyone here obviously enjoys video games to some degree, I feel it’s worth mentioning that I don’t buy games and I don’t use Steam. At this point the thought of buying any game that isn’t second hand is completely foreign to me. The main reason for this is that I have no interest in most games anyway, but also that basically every popular developer/game studio is on my “fuck you, you will never get a buffalo nickel from me” shit-list.

 

On that note, one company I avoid with ease despite most people being seemingly addicted to it is Amazon. No clue how anyone can use that shit heap in good faith when there are many alternatives (although fewer by the day.. Amazon scarfs ‘em up quick!)

 

Anyway, even if you don’t have the answers, I just want to hear your thoughts. I also want to reiterate that I’m not trying to be overdramatic here, just frank. If I can’t be frank, what can I be?

 

Oh, and just to preempt the inevitable “why ask Doomworld?” question, the fact is I simply put more faith in this community than I do in the majority of the internet. I’ve heard people say the Doom community is crazy, but I’ve seen Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Reddit.. If we’re crazy, then those places are nuttier than squirrel shit.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Doomkid : Typos n stuff

[Robo_Cola]

Most people probably don't think too much when they spend, so it's easy for them to ignore how their actions can effect others directly/indirectly.  It's less of a "good vs evil" argument and more whether or not they are ignorant to the fact of.

 

To answer your second question, it might help if you specified what you needed?

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

6 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

1) How do people compartmentalise so effectively when spending their money? How are they able to be so carefree in their direct financial support of slavery and other abhorrent practices?

Ignorance is bliss. And if it isn't ignorance it's "Hey, at least it isn't my ass picking cotton for slave wage."

 

It's really that simple. You either know about this kind of shit, and then you try to avoid these products, or you don't care, for one reason or another.

 

8 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

2) What corporate oligarchs are “less evil” compared to the baseline? I ask so I can at least have some places to spend my money without crushing guilt.

Usually there's stuff like "fair trade" and suchlike. It might not all be ultra clean, but it's probably better than most things out there. Other than that, see what's available from a local source, rather than supermarket brand XYZ and similar. If you wanna live "cleaner", it's up to you to make an effort and figure out what in your supermarkets comes from where, because past a few "global players" it's gonna be difficult to say much, really.

 

Here's the actual problem: In most cases there's no way you can "live 100% clean", because there's no way to support such a lifestyle in modern days. You're gonna cause some damage no matter what. So, for the sake of sanity, it needs to be good enough to know that you've made an effort to cause as little damage as possible.

[Yourfacedotcom]

I don't have infinite money or time. I am lucky to be born where I was and lucky to be able to just barely support myself, I don't feel guilty about that. There is no "saving" this world. I support my local small businesses when I can and try to buy products made by companies that employ American citizens. I make my world smaller.

 

 

[Linguica]

One of the greatest tricks that capitalists have pulled is to make YOU feel bad for participating in the system they forced upon you, and to feel like you would be a hypocrite if you say anything against it. Which is not how morality works. It's not YOUR fault if the coltan in your cell phone was mined by kids somewhere. It's the fault of the people who directly finance and operate the mine! You don't know or care what coltan even is! What does feeling particularly bad about your incredibly attenuated ten-times-removed involvement accomplish?

 

If you want to feel bad about something, feel bad about eating meat. At least there's an actual part of an actual animal in front of you in that case.

[elend]

What Linguica said. You can't save the whole world. You can only make it a little bit better. Browse the net for a directory of "ethical brands". For simple things like chocolate there are usually brands available that do not employ child labour, etc. For something like a smartphone it is getting a bit more difficult.

 

Imho the only thing you can do is trying to offset the unethical things you (unwillingly) support by just being the best human you can be in every other aspect. Don't litter (sounds easy enough!), be kind to everyone, try to improve situations in your local community (no matter how small), etc.

[DuckReconMajor]

It sounds like you're being Mister Gotcha to yourself. We didn't choose to be a part of these systems we were thrust into at birth. All we can do is try to make things a little better where we can. Circle of control/influence etc.

 

The most effective thing I'm aware of to make the world better is to learn about Effective Altruism and supporting charities like GiveWell.

[P41R47]

This remains me to when i helped the nurse of the fire treatment clinic of my city.
GODAWFULSHAMLYUNFORTUNATESHITPLEASERAPEMYEYESOUTOFMYASS!!!!!!!!!
I run crying after see the first patient chonking with his own... blood at least, because others... hell!

You know what? After that, FICTION of every kind, seems like a walk on the park.

I started thinking about that experience, and i felt very overwhelmed by how things happened. But i understand, with a lot of cry in the middle, that i can't do nothing about it. Yes, there are lot of campaing making trying to made people aknoledge about this kind of issues. But some times, you got to understand also that, you can't make people care if they don't want to.  
What you need to have in mind, is that it isn't your faul, that its a shame that it happened to someone, its a shame that it had to happend, but as it happened to that poor victim, it could have happened to you also, so embrace life as it is... absdurd some times, smile every time you can and appreciate what life put in front of you, fight against the things you believe are wrong and for what you think is right.
At the end of the day... hug your dears an try to do what you can to not let them had to experience something soo hellish like that.  

[Gokuma]

I've just recommend boycotting the most heinous companies as best you can (sometimes it's damn near impossible and you just can't avoid them in the supply chain) and buy ethically which it sounds like you're already doing and doing a lot more than most people.   Trying to compartmentalize is how we attempt to cope but we must survive.

 

Just to throw some others out who can eat their own shit and choke on it:

Monsanto

BP

Dow Chemicals

Unilever (who happen to own Lipton, which sucks anyway.  Or is it Dove soap.  Or both.   The mother of an autistic child said their soap has awful stuff in it.)

KFC

McDonalds

Burger King

Taco Bell

basically all fast food

Walmart

Amazon

Whole Foods (fake pieces of shit, I think also owned by Bezos a.k.a. the real life Lex Luthor)

Kraft

Heinz

Basically anyone using High Fructuce Corn Syrup and petrochemical flavors/colors other horrible ingredients, poisoning everyone's kids.

Is it General Mills that makes Cheerios?  Which has the highest concentrations of Monsanto's glyphosate.   Honey Nut Cheerios only has less because it's 56% sugar.

Quaker Oats (loads of glyphosate)

Corporate farmers who even go beyond using the herbicide/pesticide as such and use it as a drying agent on crops for convenience, so what if they give everyone's kids' cancer.

Palmolive

Sodastream

Lying media outlets.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Gokuma

[Cynical]

To answer question #1, my view is simple: the West (and more recently Japan) won by being more organized/more capable/better able to develop/better able to wage war, and thus get to enjoy the spoils of being the first world.  It pays to be a winner -- to the victor go the spoils.  Vae victis.

[UncleTito]

3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

How do people compartmentalise so effectively when spending their money?

The truth is probably that your average Joe that you're gonna come across on the street is too stupid to even give it a thought.

There is no secret.

If you have two brain cells to rub together, you just suppress it, and live with it. You can definitely practice ethical consumption on a personal level, if it makes you feel better; although, you can never be 100% sustainable simply due to how our commodities are built from ground up.

 

Fuck it, I might just be a bit too cynical for my own good.

And regarding games, I don't remember the last time I purchased a €60 title on day one. As long as torrenting exists I'll use that to get games that have no significant online component.

Edited January 23, 2020 by UncleTito

[High On Berserk]

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

1) How do people compartmentalise so effectively when spending their money? How are they able to be so carefree in their direct financial support of slavery and other abhorrent practices?

 

2) Which of the many businesses in this corporate oligarchy are “less evil” compared to the baseline? I ask so I can at least have some places to spend my money without crushing guilt.

1. When it comes to spending money and financing slavery, some people goes with "better them than me" mantra, while others are spoiled rotten to the point, they do not have two brain cells to rub together and thinks stuff grows on trees or there are magical fields full of goods overseas.

 

2. My guess is small guys. By that, I mean small chains and businesses where owners themselves are working at counter, for instance.

 

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Since everyone here obviously enjoys video games to some degree, I feel it’s worth mentioning that I don’t buy games and I don’t use Steam. At this point the thought of buying any game that isn’t second hand is completely foreign to me. The main reason for this is that I have no interest in most games anyway, but also that basically every popular developer/game studio is on my “fuck you, you will never get a buffalo nickel from me” shit-list.

Man, I wish I was you! Though, I am glad things got "little" digital with less plastic boxes and other crap are being made compared with back in the day.

 

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Anyway, even if you don’t have the answers, I just want to hear your thoughts. I also want to reiterate that I’m not trying to be overdramatic here, just frank. If I can’t be frank, what can I be?

Nobody does, all we have is some information, guesses, opinions and habits. My thought is that, ultimately, we should buy only what we need (I cannot live without bottled water, tea, bread, pasta, meat but things like sugar, potato chips or chocolate are not on "must obtain" list), support those who grows and makes stuff in more old fashioned ways while not forgetting, that days, when we gonna need to choose between living off the land or paying gold bars for loaf of bread and bottle of clean water at local dealer of everything, are inevitable.

Edited January 23, 2020 by High On Berserk

[reflex17]

Just by having these thoughts and feeling this way means you're a part of the change that must need to happen. So many parts of our lives have advanced while others still drag in the muck. Like others have said it's understandable to feel the way you do. You don't deserve to be troubled by something you largely have no part in. Things are always changing I know but sometimes it's only landslides. We happen to live in a time when humanity is in a transitional state, it seems like. I wish you well Doomkid.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by reflex17

[RonnieJamesDiner]

I’m sure I’ll get flamed to fuck for this, but you can always try taking life just a little less seriously. Human civilization is a giant, complicated hive of moving parts and systems in all manner of different spheres; political, social, economic, scientific, spiritual, etc. When you start trying to pick it apart, and carefully inspect it to see how it works, and why, it becomes really easy to get swept up in this kind of thinking. It becomes easy to forget that, at the end of the day, you’re still just a fleshy sack of meat and bone, running on electricity, interpreting electromagnetic waves and molecular vibration and all of that shit.

 

In the course of a week, I hear a lot of people complain about this stuff. They complain about government, and big business, and Big Brother, and oligarchic / crony capitalism, and the neo-liberal New World Order agenda, and pharmaceuticals, and chemicals, and technology, and AI, and Google, and free-speech, and the media, and big banks, and currency devaluation, and the military-industrial-complex, and foreign policy, and wars of aggression, and oil, and climate change, and the list just goes on, and on, and on, and people go on, and on, and on.

 

It’s the “new evil”, and so many people seem determined to place it front and centre; scorning it, preaching about it, deriding anyone who isn’t versed in it, feeling guilty or responsible for it; feeling superior or righteous when they find ways of combating it.

 

There has always been inhuman, cruel, and ugly aspects of human civilization, and there always will be. The upshot is that no matter who you are, where you are, or how much suffering you may endure in the blink of your life, you are guaranteed to eventually lie down in the dirt forever. The suffering will pass.

 

All you can do is spread what love and kindness you’re capable of spreading in your short time. Smile, laugh, enjoy the small things, appreciate this moment. It’s the only moment you have. Walking around with the weight of the world on your shoulders is a completely unnecessary burden, though if that is how you choose to live, there’s nothing wrong with that. But, remember that you can look at the world as a magical, curious place, just as easily as you can look at it as the machination of institutionalized greed, slavery, and social apathy.

 

Just relax, life is a play and you’re only an actor.

[Buckshot]

Be grateful and appreciative for what you have and the people/things involved behind the scenes that were involved either voluntarily or involuntary in it getting to you. Because the truth is you will probably never know the logistics of all of that process and how it came to be as a whole to you. Dreading upon it won't do anything but make you feel terrible, and it may/may not be warranted dread per each scenario.

When it really boils down to it... not everything we have came to be manufactured out of terrible conditions and means. But of course, some of it probably has. And with so many components on so many things and so many hands it goes through to get to you... you'll never really know. Try not to indulge in overly luxurious lifestyles and consumerism and try to avoid consumer irresponsibility on ridiculously lavish things that may be fun for you but not things like the environment and health of others and that's about all you can really do aside from raising your own under those beliefs and encouraging others to do the same.





 

[andrewj]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

1) How do people compartmentalise so effectively when spending their money? How are they able to be so carefree in their direct financial support of slavery and other abhorrent practices?

I don't think "compartmentalise" is the right word -- it suggests ignoring and/or rejecting reality, which I don't think is a healthy thing to do.  All you can really do (imho) is avoid giving money to companies which you feel are the most evil.

 

Personal example: I was considering buying an Apple computer so I could create software for people running MacOS.  But some of Apple's practices really bug me, primarily the way they prevent loading 3rd party software onto iPhones and iPads (their "walled garden"), and removing the headphone jack, so ultimately I decided to not give them that money.

[maxmanium]

@RonnieJamesDiner put it eloquently.

 

It's great to have a conscience and to be aware of the moral injustice that's going on around you. That said, there's not much anyone can do about the large-scale problems on their own. Certainly, you can abstain from supporting certain businesses whose practices you find morally objectionable, and that may do wonders for your conscience. If you can convince others to do similarly, that's even better. But, as pessimistic as it may sound, the companies you find morally objectionable are absolutely going to have too much money and power to be taken down easily. For that reason, I don't believe that participating in "late stage capitalism" is a bad thing, or that it makes you a bad person. Just do your best to be your best, and honestly, that's more than likely enough, because your efforts will have diminishing returns from that point forward.

[Solmyr]

It's better not to think about modern slavery and animal suffering in factory farms, no matter what happens there will always be someone suffering a horrible life he/she didn't deserve and no matter what you do, you can't change that, at least as other posters said, enjoy your life while you can, its not your fault for buying products that came from slave labor or animal suffering, its the fault of corrupt amoral leaders of third world countries who allow sweatshops and child slavery in the first place, and of course amoral corporations who outsource to those countries. Animal suffering on farms can be reduced but unfortunately the world at large needs meat, besides life in the animal world is kill or be killed anyways.

 

The human world was always a fucked up place, but, fortunately it gradually changes for the better, no matter what horrible depressing shit is happening elsewhere nowadays, 600 years ago life was much worse for everyone but the small elites of any given nation, in comparison everyone in the western world and the middle class of many developing countires eat better than kings of the middle ages.

[FractalBeast]

If you cannot vote with your wallet, vote with... your vote.

 

It's really hard to consume ethically, so when I can, I do. When I can't, I make it count in my voting behavior. Companies don't care about your opinion. They only care about money. And getting their HQ raided by the cops. So yeah. Vote so companies are held accountable.

[Uncle 80]

Was going to weigh in on 1) but Nine Inch put it pretty accurate.

 

Also, consider stop buying stuff you don't need. Like a smartphone. People give away old phones left, right and centre, and what do you need a smartphone for anyway? Paying your bills? Use your computer instead. Reading while going somewhere? Get a book at the library instead. Listening to music? Find a second-hand mp3 player or something similar instead. Browsing social media while riding the bus? Stop that, you look like a retarded monkey trying to figure out how to peel a banana.

 

I also despise streaming services and cable companies; somehow they've managed to make it the norm that all income from recorded music should now be divided between cable companies and streaming services, while the artists get almost literally nothing. Fuck'em, I'll rather buy cd's or downloads from the artists themselves. Morally, I can afford to aquire quite a heap of polyurethane discs before I start feeling guilty about the environment since I don't own either a car or a smart phone AND I NEVER INTEND TO DO SO EITHER #%/#%/

[insertwackynamehere]

I know what you mean, I started trying to buy most of my clothes locally made (shirts, suits, etc) from a local tailor who uses local labor and trying to cut out sweatshop goods as much as possible (a lot of non-clothing textiles and basics are still probably sweatshop based though) but even then it doesn’t help because:

 

a) I’m just privileged enough to be in a position where I can basically “indulge” myself literally and in the religious sense by spending more money for clothes than others with less which isn’t really a moral win except compared to others of similar means to me and

 

b) I read that sweatshops are actually the best choice for kids in these countries because when you get rid of childhood labor they don’t go to school they just become trafficked instead (who knows if that is pro-sweatshop propaganda though).

 

So basically, even being a conscious yuppie trying to spend more money for better ethics to tax your own consumerism, you are both getting ripped off by an industry that knows people like you exist and can be tricked into spending more for no reason and also you haven’t really proven anything other than that you are well off enough to be able to make such choices and so to sneer at others for not making such choices is usually just classist.

[NoXion]

It's a good thing that you have concerns about how the things you use are made and where they come from. It's just a massive shame that it seems like you can do so little about it; as others have pointed out, there are plenty of businesses who use peoples' well-meaning conscientiousness to extract further profit, basically putting a premium on whatever passes for ethical consumption. And it often turns out that such premium-ethical consumption is more premium than ethical.

Best I can tell you is not to beat yourself up too much over it; if the way a particular good or service is made or produced is especially egregious in your eyes, I don't think there is anything wrong in weighing up the difference between your comfort and your conscience. At least very least you will have given the subject some thought.

I don't judge others for making use of scummy businesses like Amazon - aside from it being hypocritical to do so, a lot of people are paid a pittance and Amazon's prices often undercut those of brick-and-mortar places as part of a deliberate strategy. They have so many advantages over other retailers and exploit them to the hilt. I place the blame firmly on the higher-ups of such businesses, the ones who decide what the corporate strategy is.

[Redneckerz]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:12 AM, DuckReconMajor said:

It sounds like you're being Mister Gotcha to yourself. We didn't choose to be a part of these systems we were thrust into at birth. All we can do is try to make things a little better where we can. Circle of control/influence etc.

 

The most effective thing I'm aware of to make the world better is to learn about Effective Altruism and supporting charities like GiveWell.

I am going to chip in on this one. Because i recently read the book by Peter Singer by the same name that goes in on this.

 

The general concept of Effective Altruism is one i get behind. It explains in detail why partaking into instances that do not buy off your emotional concerns (The prime reason why most people donate, to buy off their guilt) and instead donate towards effective, transparent measurements is a good idea.

 

However, the book does an exceptionally poor job at staying neutral regarding this concept. A whole lot is centered around the thesis of the author, who leaves no opportunity left behind to mention this. The examples of Effective Altruists given are presented in a haphazard way: The abundance of introduced examples comes off as a way to shower the reader. There are so many of them, why would you ignore it?

 

But the biggest culprit as to why the concept gets clouded (in my eyes) is found in the latter parts, which straight up turn into telling the reader how he or she should act, which carry a distinct pseudo-propaganda taste. Not just for altruism, but also for veganism, ecology, and other sectors. Instead of maintaining a neutral POV, Singer puts a lot of personal experience into the mix, which clouds the overall impression.

 

In conclusion, i found it quite the pill to swallow. The general concept is one i can get behind and it definitely serves as an inspiration. The latter parts of the book replace the neutral, scientific tone in advance of a personal point of view that carries a demanding hand reach.

[zen4040]

I swear considering some of the topics on these threads, at some point his will turn into a full marxist forum.

Spoiler

not that I have any problem with that

 

[Vorpal]

You can try to improve upon the condition of those around you: family/friends, maybe your "community" (participating in town politics/events). Beyond that it's silly to worry about, because essentially every person tries to improve their condition and those within their sphere. And if they aren't striving to improve themselves (like you need the red cross to come and teach you about not pooping in your drinking supply), fuck em. Sometimes there's a reason for a person's poor condition, e.g. don't fucking build a house in a floodplain. If a community can't care about its own people, why should you?

 

As soon as you increase the capacity of society to care for people, those people are going to thrive and then double, triple, etc., the next generation, compounding the problem further.

 

Also be aware that the "guilt tripped westerner who wants to live sustainably" is a market with a propaganda machine. There is no reason to believe Company A's Soy Quinocado Granola Blast is any more ethical than Company B's Soy Quinocado Granola Blast which happens to have a Locally Sourced Organic sticker.

[Gokuma]

I forgot to mention screw the banks and credit card companies, siphoning wealth wherever they can.  When they tell you that no purchase is too small for your card, they can go and use their plastic as a depository.   Whenever people use their card at small businesses, the credit banks are taking a cut with service fees.   When you tip with your card instead of cash, they even take a cut of people's tips.   If you have to use a card for the bill, just write cash with no specific number on the tip line.    I also always tip cash so there's not an exact electronic record of what they were given.   All the banks practicing fractional reserve lending are huge frauds.   They lend out 9 to 10 times what they possess and then charge interest on money they never had.   They used to have to fear a run on the bank when people got wise to this practice, but that skank FDR created the FDIC so they could do it with impudence.   There's the simple story of the "Goldsmiths" explaining the origin of the practice.   It omits things though, such as them skipping town with people's physical gold in hand as well as their overproduced certificates of supposed gold holdings.

 

Bankers profit from war, including the old World Wars I & II.   The elite bankers are behind the US overthrowing countries left and right.   They want to own every nation's central bank.   A private bank should never be allowed to produce a nation's currency.   The "Federal Reserve" is a private bank that works in association with the government.   You can be sure a private bank is producing the Euro as the EU is a huge scam.   In Crete they just plain seized a chunk of every bank account to pay so called austerity measures.  Reminds me of how the Bolsheviks seized every bank account (entirely) when they took power in Russia (not that I was around then).  And the Bolsheviks just happened to be backed by elite bankers in New York and London.   But now aren't they like super high level bourgeoisie?   Aren't communists supposed to be against them, rather than backed by them?   Hmmm....    Well the bankers sure must have got a nice return on their investment.   Heard of the shitty bank the Koch Brothers?   Well their founder made his fortune working for Stalin.  The US government has seized private gold holdings in the past and even made them illegal for a while.   Are a whopping cut of your federal income tax dollars just being sent to some owners in NY and London?   Hmm...  Oddly. it so happens Karl Marx himself hardly worked a day in his life and was supported by wealthy friends while he put his totalitarian shit out that's supposed to accomplish its agenda by any means necessary, no matter the slander or mass murder.    Also the Fed Reserve purposely crashes the economy and makes things worse, so the elites can buy up massive amounts of anything tangible of value while its stupid fiat monetary is currently low and people and companies are liquidating for funds to stay afloat.

 

Yep, they won't teach you this stuff in school or glorified super indebting high school known as college, because one of those bankers said "I want workers, not thinkers."

Edited January 31, 2020 by Gokuma

[Man of Doom]

In a world that has completely lost its marbles, the only thing that you can do is sometimes the most Herculean task one can attempt:

 

Just put one foot in front of the other.
 

 

And sometimes, make it a point to just enjoy the little things.

[ketmar]

that's how i became a communist.

[DuckReconMajor]

On 1/28/2020 at 10:00 AM, Redneckerz said:

Peter Singer/Effective Altruism

 

I haven't read the book, but I've heard similar critiques from elsewhere. I just see EA as a guide for folks who don't already support their own charities and feel like there's no good way to make a difference. I don't think anyone who is passionate about other ways of doing good should be shamed. 

[Gokuma]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

that's how i became a communist.

Look at the world root, COMMUNE or community.   Then look at the core Ten Planks of Marx's Communism.   He really messed up the definition and seems to have been really disingenuous with ulterior motives.   Even though I always thought Marx was full of crap, (and that was a naive understanding) I used to wonder what conservatives got their panties all in a bunch about and I even wore a hammer and sickle shirt just for shits and giggles.    Now I see how awful, aggressive, dishonest, and totally 1984,  the new communists are in the US.   Slandering and doxing people, sometimes outright attacking, even people that are somewhat aligned with them but not far enough.   The middle ground is even their enemy.   Someone can be married to a Jewish woman and they will slander him as Nazi.   They really hate culture.    Bands can have absolutely none of supposed Nazi content or political bullshit they accuse them of and they'll dox them and make bomb threats to venues to shut down bands in their own country and make foreign ones cancel their trips.   Someone can be a half-Jewish gay guy married to a black guy and they'll slander him endlessly as a white supremacist.   You can't make that shit up.  A totalitarian agenda achieved by any means necesary however dishonorable or murderous.   You should see what Stalin called his own converts.   Even though Lenin didn't want Stalin to succeed him, he wasn't any better.   He just had less people murdered.   I can at least respect Castro who kept his country going despite the US's best efforts to utterly starve it, but Che was really a monster who just loved killing and raping.   Check out some of Che's quotes.

 

Nothing against some socialist ideas.   Anytime the masses pay for a public benefit, it's socialism and exists in practically all government.   More genuine socialists fought against the Bolsheviks, but they didn't have the backing of elite bankers who made out like bandits on their investment when all Russian accounts were seized.

 

Beware of the stick hiding behind false promises.

 

I'd say at least communism is good for the environment since people are bad for the planet, and it kills so many of them, but try breathing Beijing's air.

 

Again, nothing wrong with some socialist ideas and nothing against you (unless you go and do some horrible things I mentioned).   Beware of being locked into a ideology and unable to reassess it.