How do people get Jobs these days?

[Aaron Blain]

Adam Smith, An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 8:

 

"When in any country the demand for those who live by wages, labourers, journeymen, servants of every kind, is continually increasing; when every year furnishes employment for a greater number than had been employed the year before, the workmen have no occasion to combine in order to raise their wages. The scarcity of hands occasions a competition among masters, who bid against one another in order to get workmen, and thus voluntarily break through the natural combination of masters not to raise wages."

 

When there is 'Perfect Liberty' of labor (i.e. everyone is able to change their job as often as they like, and pick out the best one) and an economy that is expanding with sufficient speed, employers will be forced to compete for the limited number of employees.

 

Karl Marx has a different view on the proportion of jobs to job-seekers.

[Dwimepon]

I think it's especially bad with literary / art-based jobs. I want to become a translator one day, currently doing a Degree in English translation, culture and literature for this exact reason, and I honestly feel like there's not much for me once I graduate. :/

 

2 hours ago, Aaron Blain said:

Adam Smith, An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 8:

 

"When in any country the demand for those who live by wages, labourers, journeymen, servants of every kind, is continually increasing; when every year furnishes employment for a greater number than had been employed the year before, the workmen have no occasion to combine in order to raise their wages. The scarcity of hands occasions a competition among masters, who bid against one another in order to get workmen, and thus voluntarily break through the natural combination of masters not to raise wages."

 

When there is 'Perfect Liberty' of labor (i.e. everyone is able to change their job as often as they like, and pick out the best one) and an economy that is expanding with sufficient speed, employers will be forced to compete for the limited number of employees.

 

But in that case, shouldn't workers be treated fairly by their employers, since they're rare? From what I've seen and heard, worker rights and wages are at an all-time lots in a lot of fields today. But then again, since I'm mostly looking at arts-based jobs, I might be biaised a bit.

[Jello]

Apply. Even if you don't think you have the exact skills they're looking for, apply anyway. Quite a bit of the interview process is just getting along with the person who's interviewing you; so be personable, show up on time, dress nicely, and sell yourself. Tell them why they should hire you. I've gone into plenty of interviews knowing that I wasn't entirely qualified, but I presented myself as someone who was intelligent and could easily be trained to learn the way that things worked. It really seems to be more about presenting yourself as a "team-player" than anything, just let them know that you're easy to get along with and eager to learn. And present yourself as competent.

 

I've had interviews where I have felt completely unprepared, and I thought they went horribly, and then I get offered the job. But yes, most employers when they're interviewing people, are more looking for someone who's a "good fit". Even if you know everything in the world about a specific subject, they aren't going to hire you if you come off as abrasive, non-communicative, irritable, or just generally hard to get along with.

 

Oh, and be willing to settle. You may not get the dream job you want right off the bat. But it's easier to get the job you want if you already have one. Plus you'll probably learn some things in the process, especially how to deal with other people.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jello

[AndrewB]

3 hours ago, Dwimepon said:

But in that case, shouldn't workers be treated fairly by their employers, since they're rare?

 

Some workers are rare, others are common. Like you said, focusing on unproductive and arts-based jobs is going to give you a false sense of cynicism.

[Soulless]

Here its always been a matter of knowing of someone that can let you in, also called "Nepotism", even in non-qualified jobs.

 

[Rytrik]

On 1/23/2020 at 5:44 PM, UncleTito said:

 

Or fight with 50 other micro-biology students for the position of a fucking bartender.

 

 

[Aaron Blain]

5 hours ago, Dwimepon said:

But in that case, shouldn't workers be treated fairly by their employers, since they're rare? From what I've seen and heard, worker rights and wages are at an all-time low in a lot of fields today.

I referred to the viewpoints of the two most influential economists, but I didn't say which one I find more persuasive.

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, Dwimepon said:

But in that case, shouldn't workers be treated fairly by their employers, since they're rare? From what I've seen and heard, worker rights and wages are at an all-time lots in a lot of fields today. But then again, since I'm mostly looking at arts-based jobs, I might be biaised a bit

How "rare" you are is only half the story. It won't help you to work in a profession with 9 other people around the globe when your profession is in such low demand that only 3 people can hope to get paid for their work at any given time. Granted, you could be so good at what you're doing that you will get hired instead of someone else, in which case employers might actually compete in order to get you to work for them, but for most people that's a pipedream at the best of times...

[DU0]

Young people no longer buy houses, or cars, or have kids. We (they?)'d rather have a smartphone with Uber, live with their parents paying rent or helping out with some income, and that's that.

Apparently Marx predicted that something like this could happen when you have wage slavery; when you can't consume what you're producing because it's too expensive. But I wouldn't know about any of that.

 

So yeah, try to find something you can make money out of. Learn how to fix computers and go update some notebooks around the neighborhood or something. Our generation doesn't get to live the american dream.

[seed]

10 hours ago, Soulless said:

Here its always been a matter of knowing of someone that can let you in, also called "Nepotism", even in non-qualified jobs.

 

Same, especially in non-private companies and businesses, where there's no chance to land anywhere unless you know someone, or someone who knows someone etc.

 

I've resumed my search for a job this year and once more, enjoying no replies and zero calls back, cool stuff ngl 👍. Seems other than "keep trying" there's no other way.

[omx32x]

getting jobs these days sucks and i hate it

last year i got my first job on telemarketing and i worked there for 9 days before the company decided to cut costs and fired my entire department 

what sucks even more is that now every entry level job wants you to be in an university even if it doesnt matter for the job at hand

i think the goverment gives some money for companies that have employes who are at university

[Vorpal]

I have been in 40+ interviews in various industries (from gas stations to financial district multinational firms).

 

100% of the ones where I was "faking" I was not hired

100% of the ones where I was "myself" I got hired

 

By faking I mean, showing up in a suit because that's what my mom told me to do, even though I'm a penniless college kid from a farm town. Pretending to be knowledgeable about the job, "So do you know what we do here?" "Why yes you manufacture colostomy bags, a very exciting industry that I've been trying to break in to". Pretending to be super polite and Business Casual, when really I'm crude and sarcastic and distrustful.

 

All these things probably added up to a super obvious fake looking candidate, and they would've been right. The only thing I would recommend dishonest about is that you "NEED THIS JOB". Being totally cavalier and "If I don't get this job, meh" is bad too but, showing that you are desperate is worse and will set yourself up for intense exploitation.

 

The successful interviews I've had, I was aggressively confident in my own abilities, admitted to the employer I have no fucking idea what I'll really be asked to do, I trash talked the other applicants (I made a list of personality types that I was betting the interviewer was having trouble with; phone addicts, facebook addicts, excuse-for-why-i'm-late guy, etc.), and I wore boots, jeans and a white t-shirt, although I do keep myself clean shaven so I'm not trying to say I showed up looking like a slob.

 

The "you have to know somebody" line is just sour grapes from unsuccessful people, I know because I was one. In most businesses, employers avoid hiring friends and family because there are major liabilities there (more likely to flout company policies because "I'm the boss' niece and can't be fired", and in the case of disciplinary action then it ruins a personal relationship and makes things horrible outside work). I mean yeah, there's tons of sons working with their fathers, but that's a little different because such relationships involve the father grooming all his kids over many years, hoping and praying that one will have the attitude and interest to be a business partner. Yes the boss' son can be an insufferable prick who knows he is immune to discipline, but spending effort being upset by this is toxic. One needs to accept that the boss built this company/division, and is due some courtesy (instead of complaining, learn to deal with a grievance. Hell, learn to like them and be surprised)

[Biodegradable]

I was utterly rejected by the traditional employment system and was unemployed for the better half of a decade, so I honestly have no idea what to suggest when someone asks me. On the one hand, I've had so many job interviews, I feel like I know what one can say to feel more noticed and such. On the other hand, I don't know if anything I could suggest would actually work because I was jobless for 6 years, so what the fuck do I know? Mind you, a young fella I know did ask me for advice a month ago and he did end up nailing the interview and got the job he applied for, so perhaps I do know a thing or two after all.

 

The only solution that actually worked for me personally was taking the risk of creating my own job because nobody would give me one. Good timing too since only a year a half later the pandemic happened and a lot of poor sods lost their jobs. I count my lucky stars every day this thing I've got going on is working.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Vorpal said:

The "you have to know somebody" line is just sour grapes from unsuccessful people, I know because I was one. In most businesses, employers avoid hiring friends and family because there are major liabilities there

 

I suppose that depends on the environment, but I'm calling BS on that right now, especially since I know people who have only ever found a job that way, through "recommendations from another friend", knowing the right people, etc.

 

There is definitely truth in what you said, that this is also a tale spread by folks who are underachievers/unsuccessful (I am one too, but I can recognize this just fine, so I'm not going to moan about it or that "life isn't far" - as if it ever were to begin with lol), but dismissing nepotism as if it were entirely nonexistent is not a good idea.

[Vorpal]

19 minutes ago, seed said:

dismissing nepotism as if it were entirely nonexistent is not a good idea.

 

I didn't argue that it doesn't exist, just that blaming it for one's failure is self delusion, and that there are probably just as many places where hiring based on family/friend status is purposefully avoided.

[seed]

8 minutes ago, Vorpal said:

I didn't argue that it doesn't exist, just that blaming it for one's failure is self delusion, and that there are probably just as many places where hiring based on family/friend status is purposefully avoided.

 

Ah I see, no problem then 🦊. From the way you phrased it, it came off as complete dismissal to me initially.

 

As I said, you're right that blaming it completely for one's own shortcomings is not a productive way to deal with the problem either.

[Omniplex]

Sorry I had to edit this out, I realised that this sounded to harsh and I don't wish to speak bad or evil about anybody.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Omniplex : Don't want to speak evil of anyone

[Killer5]

Bemused notified me of this thread so I thought I would share my story in case it will help some people. Probably more so for people who have not graduated yet and in the US because I have no idea what other countries are doing.

 

I have a BS in Computer Science and minor in Mathematics. When I was in college I was also a TA for undergrad and graduate CS courses because I knew all of my professors did well in class etc. Actually got to sit in graduate level courses because I was thinking about going into academia. So I already have connections and something to put on my resume which isn't just working at a fast food joint. Most importantly I can tie things into my TA positions like 'helping out newer students with work etc'. This is a very important value to have for any company because you need to be able to help foster growth with new employees (especially when becoming a lead and is something I look for specifically when interviewing people for higher level positions).

 

When I was a year away from graduating I used the services provided by my university for free (included with my tuition) to build my resume. So I had that created just fine. Then I took advantage of the numerous amounts of job fairs. There are many companies who poach new students from universities from job fairs - do not miss out on this opportunity. If anything it will give you more experience talking with employers.

 

So I was already interviewing for jobs before I had even graduated. Some of my friends got summer internships even earlier at uni. I missed this because I was doing summer research programs instead - but still used this on my resume.

 

I found a job right out of the gate being more proactive looking for jobs while still in school. This was all provided to me at no charge. Companies were out looking for us and not the other way around (we just needed to have the drive to look for them initially at these job fairs). Some of these experiences were really cool. Got to stay at insane hotels and were taken out to nice dinners etc all at the expense of the companies trying to hire us.

 

Because of sites like linkedin I always get pings for people asking me if I am interesting working for them. Even for tasks I was doing years ago.

 

Good luck!

[Somniac]

I work in IT and have done for about five years now. I have no formal qualifications whatsoever, after drifting through a few terrible temp jobs (largely to get myself out of debt) I washed up at a service desk call centre. Baby's first IT job basically. I've moved positions twice - I hesitate to say "promoted" as it was more diagonal instead of upwards - and my pay has gone up a bunch. But it still sucks. I spent most of my teenage and early-mid 20s in varying states of unemployed, college, being drunk and/or high. Never went to university.

 

About nepotism - it absolutely does exist and the company I work at is absolutely an old boy's club, either that or people on the help desk who made team leader in a majority of cases cause they were "cool" and "funny" and brown-nosed their way into it, as opposed to actually having real technical knowledge, or even managerial skills for that matter. Its the same story you hear countless other places. Toxic and dysfunctional, dressed up as "we're a family" or some other saccharine nonsense.

 

I may look like one on paper, but I'm not exactly a success story. I just washed up where I washed up, grit my teeth and fought to climb the ladder one way or another. I'm still paid below standard for my field and I'm past giving a damn about my current job. I'm facing redundancy as well (having survived pretty much the entire year with my job intact and working from home for much of it), so survival is kicking in and as much as I want to leave the company I'm at for numerous reasons, I'd settle for just getting off my particular area also for a variety of reasons. 

 

Its rough, and the majority of jobs out there don't pay enough to actually have a life taking inflation and the cost of living into account - and if you want the big money you have to sacrifice too much of yourself and your life. In addition you've got people from the generation who could afford to buy a house off a single salary and got a job by walking into the place, going on about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. It'd be hysterically funny if it wasn't so absurd and real. 

[RichardDS90]

For me, I consider a strong mental mind being a pretty strong tool, not just for getting a job, but also for staying in one. I'm mentally in a bad position due to various circumstances surprisingly not due to COVID. I realised that without a strong mental mind, my chances of getting any job is low. Also doesn't help the workplace I'm in is so toxic that I can't breathe. So I'm taking time away from working to improve my mental health. Then this way, I'll end up looking in a different and more helpful perspective.

 

I hope my story will be of help and of inspiration. 

[omx32x]

18 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

I was utterly rejected by the traditional employment system and was unemployed for the better half of a decade, so I honestly have no idea what to suggest when someone asks me. On the one hand, I've had so many job interviews, I feel like I know what one can say to feel more noticed and such. On the other hand, I don't know if anything I could suggest would actually work because I was jobless for 6 years, so what the fuck do I know? Mind you, a young fella I know did ask me for advice a month ago and he did end up nailing the interview and got the job he applied for, so perhaps I do know a thing or two after all.

you know that gives me a bit more comfort? i spend 2 years searching for a job and when i finally got one i sped days there and got fired by something out of my control and i havent had any luck since but seeing how you spend so much time searching too kinda gives me confidence that i am not the only one you know

[Zize55]

I now have my own small business, and I really want to develop it further, but during a pandemic it is somehow problematic to do all this in order to at least save it, for me now this is the most important thing. I am thinking about how to application and take out a loan. Good guys were advised to me. I hope this investment will help me keep my business going.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Zize55

[Biodegradable]

@omalefico32x Believe me mate, you are far from alone. Far, far from it.

[Aaron Blain]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:44 PM, DU0 said:

Apparently Marx predicted that something like this could happen when you have wage slavery; when you can't consume what you're producing because it's too expensive. But I wouldn't know about any of that.

Two very short videos for anyone curious:

 

Economic historian Michael Hudson on neo-feudalism.

 

The abolition of slavery in the USA, as seen by the global workers' movement.

[vasilievnaaaa00]

I have big problems finding a job

[RDETalus]

If you're in college, I strongly strongly strongly urge you to build relationships with your professors. That's how you get a job out of college. It can be a very transactional relationship though, the professor is often motivated to help you out in exchange for a favor down the road involving the industry he helped you get a job in. For example, two of my close college friends got jobs immediately that way.

If you have problems building a relationship with a professor through regular class attendance, then consider joining a extra-curricular project group. These often have a professor heading them or they have industry support behind them. Both are ways to get closer to people that can give you jobs. For example, I joined a mars rover robot competition team and a satellite development group in college, both were headed by former NASA higher-ups. My friend joined a Baja racing competition team and ended up getting an internship at Toyota that way.

 

You also have to choose professors that are actively involved in research as well; choosing a lame professor won't help you get a job.

Edited July 22, 2021 by RDETalus

[Vorpal]

6 hours ago, RDETalus said:

You also have to choose professors that are actively involved in research as well; choosing a lame professor won't help you get a job.

 

I volunteered in my department's chemistry lab all through college, built a close relationship with my professor who was coordinating the research. Great experience, much more valuable than anything I got in the classroom.

 

I got a foot in the door at a company with a government contract, because of this relationship. It was by far the worst job I've ever had (cubicle army looking at spreadsheets for 10 hours a day), and when I left it burned the relationship with my professor (a friend at that point), because it marred her reputation with them. Also I resented her for steering me into such a shit place after being her slave for 4 years.

 

tl;dr BE CAREFUL CHILDREN

[RDETalus]

11 hours ago, Vorpal said:

I got a foot in the door at a company with a government contract, because of this relationship. It was by far the worst job I've ever had (cubicle army looking at spreadsheets for 10 hours a day)

lol that blows. If you went through it again, what would you have done differently to know what you were getting yourself into?

[Vorpal]

I do put some value on the algebra, calculus, physics, quantum mechanics courses as they changed my thought patterns to be more organized. But even at a cheap state university I find the ~$30k that I burned through to have been a catastrophic setback and can't with a straight face recommend college as a starting point for anyone.

 

Unless you are already on some sort of path (e.g. employed technician and want to pursue more specialist position, or passionately want to pursue career in medicine/finances/law), college is just leeching wealth from the working class since the vast majority just go right back to near minimum wage low skill jobs that have no need of higher education to acquire. Basically the myth that college is the path everyone should follow after highschool, was created by our baby boomer parents through the lense of dodging the Vietnam draft. Yes I'm salty about it