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Archaeo

DeePsea around the corner

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I have not purchased the full version of DeePsea yet. Before I do, is there a better level Editor out there that will work with all Zdooms new features like slopes etc.?

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If you are a Windows user, DeepSea is probably the best all-round multi-purpose editor for DooM. For ZDooM features I can recommend two other editors for you to try out. One is WadAuthor, which is shareware and requires you to obtain a configuration file to enable the ZDooM features. It is an excellent and stable utility, but it lacks the wad management capabilities of DeePSea. Another good editor I have used is XWE, which is free. It has wad management capabilities similar to DeepSea's, is stable and easy to use, but lacks documentation whatsoever.

So, in answer to your question, if you have $20 that you're willing to spend on a good all-round editor that is well supported, DeepSea is your best bet. Especially if you're already familiar with its use.

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ReX said:

So, in answer to your question, if you have $20 that you're willing to spend on a good all-round editor that is well supported, DeepSea is your best bet.

..Or like DOOM Anomaly and $40... :(

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Deepsea is a fine Doom editing tool. Far worth the few bills that are being asked for it. Besides i bet none of you spent 50 dollars on a doom editor like my dumbass did, and this was years ago ('95). 20 bucks is chump change...and 35 ain't much either.

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Use3D said:

Deepsea is a fine Doom editing tool. Far worth the few bills that are being asked for it. Besides i bet none of you spent 50 dollars on a doom editor like my dumbass did, and this was years ago ('95). 20 bucks is chump change...and 35 ain't much either.

Are you talking about that big fat Doom editing book with the blue demon on it and the cd in the back? Because if you are, I bought that to. It was worth every penny.

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Hiya.

The catch with DeepSea is the price. $20. Not much? Nope. Well, unless you want the upgrade next year...then that's another $20. And another $20 the year after that...and another $20 after that...etc..etc..etc... In short, DeepSea isn't a great deal. It's a great map editor though. I would have much rather paid $50 and gotten life-time updates.

My next upgrade won't be until it has *significant* adds/fixes. Or I have money lying around and in a weak moment I hit the "Pay via PayPal" button. ;)

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I have a hard time with deepsea. I’m use to DCK and I have to say that I like it a lot more than deepsea. I just wish DCK was compatible with windows and zdoom.

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Archaeo said:

I have a hard time with deepsea. I’m use to DCK and I have to say that I like it a lot more than deepsea. I just wish DCK was compatible with windows and zdoom.

That's interesting. Of all the other editors, DeePsea is most similar to DCK - esp line drawing. WA is the least similar - no linedrawing at all.

You do have to learn new keyboard shortcuts:) Or you can use the toolbars - customizable to anything you like. It is recommended to have 1024x768 resolution though - minimum is 800x600. Be sure to review the tutoriols under the Help menu. One is interactive

Mostly when one switches editors, one has to learn new commands and get used to different mouse clicks. Also be SURE you have the current version 11.66 sbsoftware.com NOT the one here on DOOMWORLD which is outdated.

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pming said:

The catch with DeepSea is the price. $20. Not much? Nope. Well, unless you want the upgrade next year...then that's another $20.

What gets me Paul is that you forget that WA isn't being updated because of simple economics. Yet you keep wanting it to be updated. Pretty obvious why John isn't motivated - he'll get absolutely nothing for his efforts. Besides the obvious disregard for his time limit- he committed to free updates for life. Of course if there are no updates, he's not out much is he:)

Do you work for FREE? IOW, if you do your job and you have to make changes, do you get paid for the extra time or do you donate your time?

Is this any different than any number of software packages - from Operating Systems, to game add-on packs? You decide when to upgrade - at least there ARE upgrades:)

PS: I did the $50 thing a while back - 4 updates for $50 - hardly anyone participated so I dropped it. Most people are more interested in the initial cost.

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deep said:

Also be SURE you have the current version 11.66 sbsoftware.com NOT the one here on DOOMWORLD which is outdated.

I'm a bit vague on this but, does the new version allow you to continue on current maps that you're making?

Eg: The CC map im making, would I be able to get the newer version of DeePsea and continue the map from it? or will I have to start over?

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DOOM Anomaly said:

I'm a bit vague on this but, does the new version allow you to continue on current maps that you're making?

Eg: The CC map im making, would I be able to get the newer version of DeePsea and continue the map from it? or will I have to start over?

I just installed it and I’m editing my old version levels. Just uninstall the old version and it will keep all the stuff that is not part of the original program. (Wads you made etc.)

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Archaeo said:

Are you talking about that big fat Doom editing book with the blue demon on it and the cd in the back? Because if you are, I bought that to. It was worth every penny.


you got it. renegade graphics DoomED Deluxe v2.86, The best interface of all the editors i've ever used. I was promised upgrades on this software too, and alas, I received none. I still use this editor, and i still have the registered cd i got in the mail after shelling out fifty bucks. It's old, tempermental, and buggy, but it's my favorite.

oh btw, the book is blue, it has a screenshot of Slough of Despair on it, and a blue cd in the back, with the shareware version of the editor on it. Maybe they packaged the full version later? Cause the cd in the book had a limit of 20 measly sectors.

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What gets me Paul is that you forget that WA isn't being updated because of simple economics. Yet you keep wanting it to be updated. Pretty obvious why John isn't motivated - he'll get absolutely nothing for his efforts. Besides the obvious disregard for his time limit- he committed to free updates for life. Of course if there are no updates, he's not out much is he:)

That's when you release the source code, so someone else can upgrade the software if the author doesn't have any motivation :P

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Fredrik said:

That's when you release the source code, so someone else can upgrade the software if the author doesn't have any motivation :P


Word... :)

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Fredrik said:

That's when you release the source code, so someone else can upgrade the software if the author doesn't have any motivation :P

You cannot live in an all-opensource world.
No commercial softwares => no computer science jobs => no computer science courses => no computer science students => 99% of the opensource projects abandonned.
You can argue as much as you want but the fact is opensource projects are dependant on commercial projects. Sad but ironically true.
Also, I have never heard of deep putting a gun on your back. You are perfectly authorized not to upgrade to the latest version. In that sense, Deepsea's licence is lifetime... for one specific version.

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a) There's no reason to believe that except from the present circumstance, which is not whatever it would be if some other sort of organization in that respect were to exist.

b) That doesn't necessaily really matter to everyone. Only those really "concerned" are going to uphold that commercial software is necessary. Those who aren't may or may not in one degree or another.

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Hiya.

What gets me Paul is that you forget that WA isn't being updated because of simple economics.

I know. But Mr.Williston doesn't really "make money" via WadAuthor. He wrote it in his spare time, because he didn't like the editors out there at the time. He then tossed it out there as Shareware. I used it for about 2-3 months, iirc, and then sent him my $20US. If WadAuthor was a MAJOR source of his bread and butter, I'm sure he would have been more inclined to sell it at a higher price, or with cost-upgrades, etc.

Yet you keep wanting it to be updated.

If there were no more updates for DeepSea ever again it would be no skin off my teeth. I ask/mention updates I'd like to see, enhancements, bug fixes, whatever, because I'd like to see them and because I know SBSoftware *does* update. That's fine. Am I willing to pay for updates? Obviously yes, as I've given you money for updates. I'd rather the updates be for "full point releases" and not based on time. Ex: all updates are free until you get to DeepSea 12.0...then I pay. I get all updates until DeepSea 13.0...then I pay. Paying "per year", imo, sucks.


Pretty obvious why John isn't motivated - he'll get absolutely nothing for his efforts.

Again, I have to point out that John doesn't feed himself and his family with WadAuthor...and he never intended to do so. He made WA for himself, thought it was cool, and decided to share it with the community...and maybe make a few bucks on the side. If he doesn't release another update, well it's no skin off my teeth. :) That doesn't mean that I don't want to see it released, and it doesn't mean that I can't/won't stop suggesting improvements.
As a side note, I also think you are dead wrong on him not getting anything for his efforts. He would get a lot of things; admiration of the editing community, respect from his long-standing customers (registered or not), satisfaction that he made a program that has lasted a long time, and probably a few bucks. I've said it before, even though I've already registered, I'll be sending him $20US when/if WA gets and update release. I don't have to, but I will. The main reason is I love his program, and I respect his honor and trust in others to 'do the right thing and register'. I think that deserves recognition for that.


Besides the obvious disregard for his time limit- he committed to free updates for life. Of course if there are no updates, he's not out much is he :)

True enough, but as I said, he wasn't in it for the money. He had a "real job" for that.

Do you work for FREE? IOW, if you do your job and you have to make changes, do you get paid for the extra time or do you donate your time?

In my last job I was a graphic artist/web designer/html-programmer type. I got paid at work for that...but when I came home, I'd work on my own web site, or a friends, or a relatives. I did that for free. It was done on my "own time". As a matter of fact, we (the company I was with at the time) *did* do some work for free. Actual, client work. We could have charged money, but we liked the customer and wanted to keep his business and him happy. So, while we didn't get cash for the work, we did get the "intangibles"; which, a lot of the time, are actually worth quite a bit more than $$$. I think Mr.Williston also knows this.

I guess with you, however, DeepSea is your only source of income (or at least a significant part of it), right? That's my impression; if you didn't have the $$$ comming in from DeepSea, you'd need another job or something. I understand that. Two different things. WadAuthor was done for fun, in spare time; ergo, no expectation of pay. DeepSea was done to make money, on company time; ergo, expectation of pay.


Is this any different than any number of software packages - from Operating Systems, to game add-on packs? You decide when to upgrade - at least there ARE upgrades :)

See above.

PS: I did the $50 thing a while back - 4 updates for $50 - hardly anyone participated so I dropped it. Most people are more interested in the initial cost.

Really? Do you still do that? It might be an option anyway. I'd consider that..as long as "update" didn't include minor bug fixes or impovements (re: 11.65 to 11.66, for example). An "update" should be at least a full 0.05 increment. So, the $50 thing would work out 11.65 to 11.80. Something like that.

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pming said:

So, the $50 thing would work out 11.65 to 11.80. Something like that.

Still, $50 is quite a bit of bucks for an upgrade to a tool that people use primarily for a hobby. Don't get me wrong, Jack puts in a lot of effort to keep DeepSea current with the newest capabilities of source ports, and provides great support. But $50 amounts to many, many capuccinos at your local Starbucks. Maybe that's why Jack dropped the $50 fee.

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Life's no fun anymore. I think I'll keep DCK. (shareware limits near non-existant, deepsea, can't work on CCmap22-too big; no money:( )

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DOOM Anomaly said:

Bah, speak for yourself :)

Isn't that what I normally do?

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There wouldn't be a DOOM editing community if we had to pay for source ports, editors, levels, etc. Give and take.

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Fredrik said:

There wouldn't be a DOOM editing community if we had to pay for source ports, editors, levels, etc. Give and take.

Agreed. I wasn't aguing about that.

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Well, I just tried wadauthor and UGH!!! I hate it. It looks like we have a winner. DeePse it is people. I’ll mail the check and order form in the morning. Oh happy day!

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I use DeePsea because I can edit for... well, pretty much anything. My registered version is old. Eventually I'm going to get a new version, but until then I use what I have. I've tried other editors, but I like DeePsea more. Plus, by now, I'm just used to it. I download the free version of the new one, install it to another place, and use it to check what the LineDef types are there so I can just use them in my older version (the old one doesn't have all the nifty Legacy, ZDoom, and SkullTag things). That way I can avoid spending money for as long as possible...

Wow, I'm lame. =P

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Sigh, why couldn't DCK be for windows.

(Oh, wait. I know why. The guy who created DCK said that he wouldn't because he hates windows. He's a linux guy and made this thing for DOS. He also got his ass fired from iD Software for some reason, and went through a few jobs, fired from each- so I'v heard)

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I would love nothing more than a version of dck to work in windows and to work with Zdoom and have all of its new options like slopes. I think I’ve said this somewhere already but I can’t remember when or where.

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