DoomerWorld made me stop caring about what "Classic" fans think of Doom Eternal.

[BetaMarine]

I was reading a forum about Doom Eternal as usual and there were comments of both praise and concern, as per-usual for anything in this earth. However, there was this one comment response which made me lose my shit. So a guy "criticized" (it wasn't really criticism, it was in the same level of saying "Fortnite bad, i win bye bye" so no, it was not a critique) the game which then had a response from someone who disagreed, giving some points for his beliefs being mostly civilized and he even asked why the guy was critical about it. Then, for some fucked up reason the guy who criticized the game turned the entire fucking narrative into a whole "haha people are fucking sheep liking a game that pissed me off hahahaha i am funny man who hates people having fun" like what the fuck man he was just asking some genuine questions, not being toxic or anything then you had to talk about how "Many people like bad game, bye bye I win". He hasn't commented on his reasons for disliking the game by the way, that asshat. I have noticed this behavior to be pretty common in "Classic" Doom fans. Whenever I see them complain about the new games, its always about how "toxic" new fans are or "You like new Doom game you are stupid" kind of stuff. As if to compensate for the dying interest in "Classic" Doom games, they spin this same bullshit narrative that fans of the new Doom games are just idiots somehow. I did not make this post to say the "Classic" Doom games are bad or the "New" Doom games are perfect masterpieces, cuz i aint a dick sucker but I just wanted to vent cuz i find this behavior very fucking annoying.

 

Shit like this is what i expect Star Wars fans to do, not Doom fans. So yeah, I don't give two fucks whether some "Classic" Doom boomer didn't like some modern triple AAA game. People can enjoy what they want, so don't call them assholes for liking something you hate.

[TheRedTide]

TL-DR, but yeah, I agree.

[BetaMarine]

1 minute ago, TheRedTide said:

TL-DR, but yeah, I agree.

Oops, my bad

[rustygizzard]

agreed, was a huge fan of the classics and i see these new games as an evolution of the franchise. people just want the same shit put out over and over again, unfortunately video games, DOOM included have to evolve and i think id has done a wonderful fucking job of bringing DOOM into the current gaming world. everything changes, but some people unfortunately just absolutely hate change whether it's good or bad, just because they don't want it.

[BetaMarine]

2 minutes ago, rustygizzard said:

agreed, was a huge fan of the classics and i see these new games as an evolution of the franchise. people just want the same shit put out over and over again, unfortunately video games, DOOM included have to evolve and i think id has done a wonderful fucking job of bringing DOOM into the current gaming world. everything changes, but some people unfortunately just absolutely hate change whether it's good or bad, just because they don't want it.

very true, most "Classic" fans should accept what the franchise has become. Don't scream at peeps who just enjoy something, they are none of your fucking business.

[BluePineapple72]

I stopped caring about what other people thought about the things I like/dislike a long time ago. Much healthier for my blood pressure

[VanaheimRanger]

2 minutes ago, BluePineapple72 said:

I stopped caring about what other people thought about the things I like/dislike a long time ago. Much healthier for my blood pressure

This.  My opinion of a game is my opinion, and yours is yours, the two opinions can both exist simultaneously.  Personally, I am one of those "Doom boomers" but I am still excited about the new game.  2016 was enjoyable and this one looks like it will be even better.

[BetaMarine]

8 minutes ago, BluePineapple72 said:

I stopped caring about what other people thought about the things I like/dislike a long time ago. Much healthier for my blood pressure

respect. 

[Cacodemon345]

I have seen people complaining about "too colorful" visuals in Doom Eternal, as if Doom was meant to be a military shooter to begin with. Another complaint I have seen is about the platforming aspect of Doom Eternal, as if platforming is a bad element in FPS shooters to begin with.

 

However, I do agree about the arena complaint.

[warman2012]

Alright, I could go in depth as a part of the opposition why we don't like the change that the franchise has taken as of length, but I am gonna try not to write a full blown novel here.

 

Tl.Dr: Some of us don't want Doom 2016 or Eternal's gameplay mechanics becoming the primary design reference for new mappers and thus preventing classic aka vanilla mapsets from being developed in the future.

 

The new changes that the new "ID software" has placed are a big detriment to the classic fans on a more of a long term basis, both for those classic fans who want something new out of ID and those who want to keep a certain way of doing things back here on the 90s Doom side of things. Some people are admittedly overly autistic over little details and rage over that aspect of change, such as art direction. Others are more fixated on gameplay mechanics staying the same. I am for gameplay mechanics.

 

See, 2016 and now Eternal have unfortunately taken inspiration from *shudders* Brutal Doom. This mod had shaken the community with both its detractors and its proponents. Brutal Doom changes the gameplay in every single way, from damage output, sounds, sprites, and difficulty. Because of this, the lifeblood of all Doom, new mapsets are designed for this disgusting mod only. For those who want vanilla, the weapon, ammo, and enemy placement for new maps designed for Brutal Doom would interfere with those who want the vanilla experience by making things unbalanced for vanilla play. Now are all mapsets that are coming out Brutal Doom focused? For now, no. Its the long term outlook which could influence the influx of new players aka mappers to eventually focus solely on Brutal Doom mapsets, thus making vanilla mapsets more rarer as time drags on.

 

Doom Eternal brings fear of the silly art direction and mechanics such as stupid Batman grapple hook BS, constant arena lockdowns, and heroin-addict glory kill health system being forced upon us by way of mapsets being designed for D2 to only consider mods like Brutal Doom, D4T, or future Eternal-inspired mods. Look, new mappers who think D2016 IS the Doom experience will only design maps for Doom 2016 mods, i.e. with lots of low level monsters, little pickups, and constant lockdown arena battles. Mods like D4T rely on the glory kill mechanic for health and the chainsaw for ammo, so the low level monsters are now considered the new pickups with the mechanics for that mod. Vanilla players would find maps designed for D4T problematic because vanilla does not have the glory kill health system, thus little pickups to go on. Some of us don't wanna have to glory kill each enemy to stay alive and slow our game down. These new players/mappers will have no respect or foundation of the original games and only have D2016 and Eternal to reference from when map designing.

 

The art aspect comes into play with such instances like custom monsters in new mapsets like Eviternity being coded in and vanilla players cannot easily change the mapset to be more of what they want because they do not know how to code effectively to remove the changes. I for one hate the Baron of Hell replacement in Eviternity and cannot change that and the pistol rate of fire. Does anyone think we want to have this forced upon us for Eviternity or any mapset for that matter? Now imagine this being the norm 5 years or even 10 years from now. Hell, it could happen a year from now. We do not know.

 

This is why I and a lot of others primarily rage over the changes being seen for the new games. The old community will disappear and will potentially be replaced with these Doom 2016 guys who will change the content landscape for the worse in our eyes.

Edited January 24, 2020 by warman2012

[Bauul]

9 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Does anyone think we want to have this forced upon us for Eviternity or any mapset for that matter? Now imagine this being the norm 5 years or even 10 years from now. Hell, it could happen a year from now. We do not know.

 

Let me get this straight: because Eviternity makes some Dehacked edits, a program that was developed in 1995 and has been popular ever since (yes, that's 25 years ago) this is somehow a new thing and heralding in the end of classic Doom mapping?

 

If you think Dehacked editing is a new thing, you seem to have missed the last two and a half decades.

[warman2012]

1 hour ago, Bauul said:

 

Let me get this straight: because Eviternity makes some Dehacked edits, a program that was developed in 1995 and has been popular ever since (yes, that's 25 years ago) this is somehow a new thing and heralding in the end of classic Doom mapping?

 

If you think Dehacked editing is a new thing, you seem to have missed the last two and a half decades.

 

Uh, no. Not the point. Its the less knowledgeable players of 90's Doom having to play maps having D2016-like elements, being coded in Dehacked or any Doom scripting language, be forced upon us because we cannot easily change Dehacked or other scripting languages. Some of us don't want to have to go through hours of coding knowledge to play a mapset the way we want to.

Edited January 24, 2020 by warman2012

[AtimZarr1]

54 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Tl.Dr: Some of us don't want Doom 2016 or Eternal's gameplay mechanics becoming the primary design reference for new mappers and thus preventing classic aka vanilla mapsets from being developed in the future.

 

 

...

 

 

This is why I and a lot of others primarily rage over the changes being seen for the new games. The old community will disappear and will potentially be replaced with these Doom 2016 guys who will change the content landscape for the worse in our eyes.

The people who bother to learn and make mapsets and mods for Classic Doom will likely be the players who enjoy the vanilla Classic Doom experience the most. The people who prefer the gameplay of Doom 2016/Eternal the most will... just continue to play those newer games instead.

 

The greatest thing about Doom is the flexibility of the modding scene. People can play Doom in any way they want. It's what gives the game the long lifespan that it has had and it's why Classic Doom will continue to be played for decades to come. The newer games are a chance for the community to keep growing and for newblood to re-discover and appreciate the gameplay of Classic Doom.

[qdash]

If you don't like something - it's just your problem and nothing more. If some people don't like that you like it's absolutely normal. Opinion is just opinion. Doom '16 was modern game in every way, but it has roots. Great game, no doubt. But Doom Eternal(!!!IMHO!!!) looks like user mod on steroids, with colorful platforms for casuals, without any atmosphere of original. I can hate it, because I can. It's not about because I'm boomer or something, it's because I find some things weak and tasteless for great series like Doom.

Edited January 24, 2020 by qdash

[Bauul]

1 hour ago, warman2012 said:

Uh, no. Not the point. Its the less knowledgeable players of 90's Doom having to play maps having D2016-like elements being coded in Dehacked or any Doom scripting language, be forced upon us because we cannot easily change Dehacked or other scripting languages.

 

Who are these "less knowledgeable players of the 90s" who struggle with Dehacked? Dehacked is a 90s tool, primarily used by older mappers. If anything it's the younger generation who would struggle with it because it's so different to modern modding tools.

 

You seem to be arguing for a world that has never existed. Doom modding has gone hand in hand with Doom mapping since forever. If anything, Doom mapping is more vanilla focused now than it was maybe 15 years ago when adding in new features into maps was a goal unto itself. 

 

I would suggest you read Not Jabba's excellent essay on the history of Doom mapping, Roots, to get a better understanding of how Doom mapping has evolved over time.

[The_SloVinator]

Basically Doom 3 as well.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

I personally kind of dislike Doom 4, but Doom 5 has so many new, exciting elements it make me anticipated.

[Caffeine Freak]

1 hour ago, warman2012 said:

See, 2016 and now Eternal have unfortunately taken inspiration from *shudders* Brutal Doom. This mod had shaken the community with both its detractors and its proponents. Brutal Doom changes the gameplay in every single way, from damage output, sounds, sprites, and difficulty. Because of this, the lifeblood of all Doom, new mapsets are designed for this disgusting mod only. For those who want vanilla, the weapon, ammo, and enemy placement for new maps designed for Brutal Doom would interfere with those who want the vanilla experience by making things unbalanced for vanilla play. Now are all mapsets that are coming out Brutal Doom focused? For now, no. Its the long term outlook which could influence the influx of new players aka mappers to eventually focus solely on Brutal Doom mapsets, thus making vanilla mapsets more rarer as time drags on.

 

I'm sorry, but there's nothing about this that makes any sense. You're acknowledging that 'for now', BD's influence hasn't taken over classic Doom mapping. Brutal Doom has been out since 2012, nearly 8 years. It's not exactly a new mod at this point. If Doom mapping hasn't been overwhelmingly steered in the direction of BD-focused WADs already, especially after the release of Doom 2016, why would you expect it to further down the road?

[TheNoob_Gamer]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, warman2012 said:

Tl.Dr: Some of us don't want Doom 2016 or Eternal's gameplay mechanics becoming the primary design reference for new mappers and thus preventing classic aka vanilla mapsets from being developed in the future.

Seriously, what the fuck. How are Doom 4/5 affecting classic Dooms' mapping scene?

On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, warman2012 said:

See, 2016 and now Eternal have unfortunately taken inspiration from *shudders* Brutal Doom.

Not much apart from the glory kill thing and the gore. Except gore was a thing since Doom 1.

On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, warman2012 said:

Because of this, the lifeblood of all Doom, new mapsets are designed for this disgusting mod only.

When exactly? I only recall, at most, 10 WADs that use Brutal Doom as a base. Most of them gone under many of us' radar.

 

On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, warman2012 said:

Doom Eternal brings fear of the silly art direction and mechanics such as stupid Batman grapple hook BS, constant arena lockdowns, and heroin-addict glory kill health system being forced upon us by way of mapsets being designed for D2 to only consider mods like Brutal Doom, D4T, or future Eternal-inspired mods.

What

On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, warman2012 said:

<Eviternity and Dehacked complaint>

How are they hard-coded? Took me 10 mins to replace all of the custom enemy behaviors' back to their original counterpart plus the pistol fire-rate.

Also, mapsets using Dehacked is not new. We already had Strain, The Sky May Be, HACX, Aliens TC, all of which ultilized Dehacked a lot.

 

TLDR: Your response contained a lot of nonsense.

Edited February 15, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[warman2012]

13 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

I'm sorry, but there's nothing about this that makes any sense. You're acknowledging that 'for now', BD's influence hasn't taken over classic Doom mapping. Brutal Doom has been out since 2012, nearly 8 years. It's not exactly a new mod at this point. If Doom mapping hasn't been overwhelmingly steered in the direction of BD-focused WADs already, especially after the release of Doom 2016, why would you expect it to further down the road?

Because if Id continues to make games in the future in the same vein as D'16 and Eternal, then over time mapping would eventually at some point be more focused on mods like BD, D4T, and whatever Eternal cooks up. That is all the new players who seek to come to classic Doom are going to have a knowledge on and going to look for. The older generation isn't going to be here forever.

 

I admittedly have no hard evidence for this last point, but in some ways, I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens. Sure seems funny to me I can complete mapsets like AA and Super Mayhem 17 quite easily with BD or its cousin Project Brutality, but any other mod or straight vanilla, its tough as nails. Could be me, could be something else. Makes me wonder if BD was a design goal for these mappers. I also had a few of the people over at the Doomer Boards forum tell me their maps were based around Brutal Doom.

 

[jazzmaster9]

2 hours ago, warman2012 said:

The old community will disappear and will potentially be replaced with these Doom 2016 guys who will change the content landscape for the worse in *MY AND A FEW DOZEN PEOPLES eyes.

FTFY.

 

Anyone who actually has a clue about the Doom community will even think that Classic Doom will die because of the influx of Doom 2016 fans.

 

External elements had always shaped Classic Doom modding.

You should read up on the Roots of Doom mapping article posted to see this in full effect.

8 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens.

 

FOR GOD SAKES read up on the article. believe what you want to believe... its far from Reality

 

Im starting to doubt you are actually a classic Doom fan and just a troll acting like Classic Doom hipster to gain attention

[Marcaek]

4 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Because if Id continues to make games in the future in the same vein as D'16 and Eternal, then over time mapping would eventually at some point be more focused on mods like BD, D4T, and whatever Eternal cooks up. That is all the new players who seek to come to classic Doom are going to have a knowledge on and going to look for. The older generation isn't going to be here forever.

 

I admittedly have no hard evidence for this last point, but in some ways, I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens. Sure seems funny to me I can complete mapsets like AA and Super Mayhem 17 quite easily with BD or its cousin Project Brutality, but any other mod or straight vanilla, its tough as nails. Could be me, could be something else. Makes me wonder if BD was a design goal for these mappers. I also had a few of the people over at the Doomer Boards forum tell me their maps were based around Brutal Doom. 

 

 

The older generation would like you to stop speaking for it, thanks.

 

Your insinuation about a slew of listed mapsets being designed for Brutal Doom is baseless too. I was even the organizer of one of those. do you really think a mario themed mapset was designed specifically for brutal doom lmao

[jazzmaster9]

I notice most of the hate is coming from the same few people who seek out Doom Eternal/Doom 2016 post just to share how purist they are...

[TheNoob_Gamer]

5 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Im starting to doubt you are actually a classic Doom fan and just a troll acting like Classic Doom hipster to gain attention

More like a super hardcore purist.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

21 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Makes me wonder if BD was a design goal for these mappers.

it never was. brutal doom is a basic proof-of-concept in my eyes.

besides, ANY gameplay mods make any WADS way, way easier.

Edited January 24, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[Spectre01]

9 minutes ago, Marcaek said:

do you really think a mario themed mapset was designed specifically for brutal doom lmao

Brutal Mario is already a thing, so I would not be surprised.

[xdarkmasterx]

22 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

 

I admittedly have no hard evidence for this last point, but in some ways, I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens. Sure seems funny to me I can complete mapsets like AA and Super Mayhem 17 quite easily with BD or its cousin Project Brutality, but any other mod or straight vanilla, its tough as nails. Could be me, could be something else. Makes me wonder if BD was a design goal for these mappers. I also had a few of the people over at the Doomer Boards forum tell me their maps were based around Brutal Doom.

 

 

[snapshot]

I can like or dislike whatever I want, just like you can like or dislike whatever you want, and not because I'm a classic boomer or whatever, Thank you very much, this is obviously not meant as an attack on classic players or anything, just me expressing my opinion. Good thing I don't go around trying to force it on others, they can make it however they want.

Edited January 24, 2020 by sluggard

[Bridgeburner56]

I am thoroughly amused by people complaining about the death of a 'franchise' with the new gameplay elements in Doom '16 and Doom Eternal because the franchise that they lament said death of started and finished ~25 years ago (in terms of developer material). Even doom wads made 10 years ago are far beyond what the OG game was in terms of gameplay and aesthetics.
 

2 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Tl.Dr: Some of us don't want Doom 2016 or Eternal's gameplay mechanics becoming the primary design reference for new mappers and thus preventing classic aka vanilla mapsets from being developed in the future.

You think Doom Eternal will somehow become the new meta for OG doom mappers? You are beyond delusional. Doom Eternal is *and this may shock you* a different game made almost 3 decades later. People map for OG doom because for a variety of reasons, almost none of them are related to emulating a modern AAA fps game that hasn't even been released yet.

[Caffeine Freak]

34 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

I admittedly have no hard evidence for this last point, but in some ways, I believe Brutal Doom has already affected mapping with harder mapsets like slaughterwads and tougher mapsets like Ancient Aliens.

 

 

Dude, slaughterwads have been popular since the 90's. Go download Hell Revealed, which came out in 1997.