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DoomerWorld made me stop caring about what "Classic" fans think of Doom Eternal.

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11 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

As before, I wasn't looking for a debate nor seem insincere, even if it is annoying to see how dismissive people are of my point because they choose to be ignorant to it.

i mean if you attack everything about neo-doom so aggressively and sarcastically of course people are gonna throw a shit fit. you can criticize everything and still sound reasonable and somewhat neutral about it. also, you can ignore everything you dislike and "not give a shit" about doom 2016, eternal, or the whole new merchandising craze and it'll be as if it never existed to you. the world will keep going and people will keep liking the game and you can move on and not write these essays about everything you think you're right about, although none of us can stop you from voicing your opinion.

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11 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

They have not expressed interest, AFAIK. There is no work happening nor planned to do so. SnapMap was dropped and Marty Stratton's official response was basically, "no, but never say never," which is just an apologetic way of saying it's not happening.

 

No, that's not what was said. Skip to 29:10 in this video:

 

 

 

The TL;DR version is that Marty says they made technical decisions a while back that swung them away from the direction of their games being moddable, but now they are in the process of 'swinging the pendulum back in that direction'. 

 

In a Reddit AMA that Hugo, Marty and Robert Duffy did a while back, one of them explained that it wasn't feasible to package the level editor with Doom 2016 simply because things like Megatextures and the vast amounts of prerendered shadows they have in the game required far more processing power than almost any gamer would have access to. It isn't hard to understand this logic; why package a game with your creation tools when you know more than 99% of gamers wouldn't have a hope in hell of being able to use them, and would need to make multi-gigabyte uploads to whatever server hosted their levels anyway? In that respect, Snapmap is actually a pretty brilliant technical solution to allow *some* degree of modding on a game that would otherwise be completely inaccessible to modders, even if it doesn't offer near the flexibility or granularity of traditional modding tools.

 

And really, it's easy to pine for the good ol' days of the early 90's when id supposedly didn't care about money (or at least that's the impression I'm getting from you), when id in those days consisted of a dozen guys in a dingy office, making games that didn't require render farms to create, or other hardware that was completely inaccessible to the average person. You're correct that Bethesda is a merchandising machine in a way that id wasn't years back. What's also true is that id in those days didn't consist of 200+ people the way it does today, and they weren't making games that required tens of millions of dollars to make.

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16 hours ago, ZeroTheEro said:

(barring the Switch asking for internet access points at start up, which can be closed and you can continue playing after that)

Fun fact, this is because the Switch (as of writing) doesn't have a silent way of testing the status of the wifi connection. If you check if a connection exists, it will prompt the user if they aren't currently connected to wifi or ethernet. The alternative would be just probing an https connection and seeing what happens, but you can end up being forced to wait for a timeout (anything up to 60 seconds depending) if you try that with no internet present.

 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a handheld device and it's likely an intended part of the design. Though it does become a bit excessive if all you want is a simple MOTD service.

Edited by Edward850

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15 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

In summary: No, Bethesda removed the unnecessary and never should have been there to start with always online requirement that they spent time developing and implementing because they're the good guys and they clearly value their fans, ignoring this one exception which continues to exist, but that doesn't count because there's a way around that, and it's not censored, except this place where it's censored, but that doesn't matter.

Yup, this is nothing more just you blathering about something trivial.

 

I'm just gonna say this: it was censored where it matters so some country who have deep regrets on their past can actually play and enjoy it and not getting foul with the law, happy?

 

15 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

Of course it's worth $15! It doesn't have the always online requirement anymore! I mean, sure... You could purchase the normal, mediocre, NON-enhanced version for $5 and play it how the developers originally intended but then you wouldn't have the pleasure of performing superfluous tasks to get around the always online requirement. How lame is that?

I bought Doom on PC. I bought it again on Switch. I don't find the "pleasure of performing superfluous tasks" to make my Switch Lite a literal brick a pleasure.

 

Buying Doom II is a small price to pay than having to buy a different Switch again for 200bux because you fucked something up and getting banned for it or both. They fixed the major issues that people were complaining about and then some.

 

15 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

Of course it's worth $15!

Last I checked, Steam (the original, non-enhanced version you cherish so much) , Xbox One, Switch, Playstation Store (they have a discount for it at the moment btw), Google Play and Apple Store had the price of 4.99 USD for both Doom and Doom II. Where do you even get that 15$ price tag, I think you just picked it out of nowhere.

 

15 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

 

As before, I wasn't looking for a debate nor seem insincere, even if it is annoying to see how dismissive people are of my point because they choose to be ignorant to it. 

Bullshit.

 

2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Fun fact, this is because the Switch (as of writing) doesn't have a silent way of testing the status of the wifi connection. If you check if a connection exists, it will prompt the user if they aren't currently connected to wifi or ethernet. The alternative would be just probing an https connection and seeing what happens, but you can end up being forced to wait for a timeout (anything up to 60 seconds depending) if you try that with no internet present.

 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a handheld device and it's likely an intended part of the design. Though it does become a bit excessive if all you want is a simple MOTD service. 

Some people wouldn't understand, man.

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I've been playing Monster Hunter for many years, and this reminds me of the release of World. "MonHun veterans" were up in arms at the fact that the game had improved controls, more forgiving gameplay or less awful hitboxes. They literally complained about the game being better designed because it meant it was actually accessible to people other than giga-weebs. Naturally they were mostly laughed at and ultimately nothing catastrophic happened.
This is an extremely common reaction when it comes to "niche" communities (As weird as calling Doom "niche" is). A suddenly popular entry in the series gets released, and pandemonium starts. "The normies will take us over!", "It's the end of our community!". Hell, this has happened multiple times in Doom itself, I remember this when Brutal Doom started getting popular, for example. 
The release of Eternal won't be the death of Classic Doom, it never is. The "normies" will adapt to the culture, the ones that don't will get impatient and leave.

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11 minutes ago, Tammato said:

I've been playing Monster Hunter for many years, and this reminds me of the release of World. "MonHun veterans" were up in arms at the fact that the game had improved controls, more forgiving gameplay or less awful hitboxes. They literally complained about the game being better designed because it meant it was actually accessible to people other than giga-weebs. Naturally they were mostly laughed at and ultimately nothing catastrophic happened.
This is an extremely common reaction when it comes to "niche" communities (As weird as calling Doom "niche" is). A suddenly popular entry in the series gets released, and pandemonium starts. "The normies will take us over!", "It's the end of our community!". Hell, this has happened multiple times in Doom itself, I remember this when Brutal Doom started getting popular, for example. 
The release of Eternal won't be the death of Classic Doom, it never is. The "normies" will adapt to the culture, the ones that don't will get impatient and leave.

 

Agreed. And most of said "normies" will probably move on to the next big thing that comes up and forget about Doom. Although I really dislike the use of "normies" here, it's just disrespect torwards people that might be interested in the game.

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Like Doom back in the 1990s, I loved lots of other things like TV shows and movies, namely Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Star Wars. Then everything shifted at some point, and I grew to dislike the new stuff in each franchise from then on, such as Doom 2016, NuWho from 2010 onwards, Star Trek from 2009 onwards and Star Wars with the entire ST. It happens with age, you grow to love the older stuff, and in each of these cases, I don't like what I've seen coming out nowadays. It happens with age and it will happen with you young'uns as well.

 

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3 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

Like Doom back in the 1990s, I loved lots of other things like TV shows and movies, namely Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Star Wars. Then everything shifted at some point, and I grew to dislike the new stuff in each franchise from then on, such as Doom 2016, NuWho from 2010 onwards, Star Trek from 2009 onwards and Star Wars with the entire ST. It happens with age, you grow to love the older stuff, and in each of these cases, I don't like what I've seen coming out nowadays. It happens with age and it will happen with you young'uns as well.

 

Not really, there maybe shit content coming out today but those have always existed. I love and hate both old and new stuff equally because some of us arent blinded by nostalgia and pretend the old stuff is somehow Objectively better.

 

but nice try prentending to be the "wise sage".

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3 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

Like Doom back in the 1990s, I loved lots of other things like TV shows and movies, namely Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Star Wars. Then everything shifted at some point, and I grew to dislike the new stuff in each franchise from then on, such as Doom 2016, NuWho from 2010 onwards, Star Trek from 2009 onwards and Star Wars with the entire ST. It happens with age, you grow to love the older stuff, and in each of these cases, I don't like what I've seen coming out nowadays. It happens with age and it will happen with you young'uns as well.

 

 

While I'm flattered that I can be called a "young'un" at 31/ near 32, I'm fairly confident that my tolerance for change has little to do with me not being crotchety and bitter yet. 

 

Star Wars content has objectively fallen from what it was, primarily in that it used to be a massive, multimedia effort with far more cohesion among its products than there is now. Each product in the franchise had -direction-, whether its individual script was good or bad.

 

Same thing with the Star Trek films. Issues with them primarily stem from the fact that they were simply nonsensical from a script point IMO. If age has done anything for my regard for Star Trek, oddly enough its made me dislike a lot of the older TNG and original stuff....

 

Never liked Doctor Who in the first place, so can't say much there...

 

Regardless, the point is; I like or dislike content based on its own merits. I'm neither blinded by nostalgia for what was, nor easily swayed by all that is new (if I was, I'd be playing Fortnight or COD by now...) 

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 12:05 AM, Taurus Daggerknight said:

Regardless, the point is; I like or dislike content based on its own merits. I'm neither blinded by nostalgia for what was, nor easily swayed by all that is new (if I was, I'd be playing Fortnight or COD by now...) 

 

.

 

Edited by Foebane72

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54 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

But you ARE being swayed by Doom Eternal, which is exactly the same sort of thing as Fortnite and COD, however.

 


I find it hard to take you seriously when you say things like this. Fortnite is a free-to-play game fuelled by microtransactions. Id software could well have gone in that direction, and they would probably have made more money had they done so, but they didn't. I know some people in this thread (you?) have been trashing the merchandising aspect of nuDoom, but honestly I have no problem with them selling figurines and wearable helmets, if that's the price for having a game that isn't some money-soaking Skinner box affair.

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This is what I mean when I have no idea of modern games. I didn't know Fortnite had microtransactions, and what I've seen of it is baffling, like Overwatch was before it. Never played either, never will. Modern games don't really sway me, and the last modern game I played was Doom 2016, just cos it looked so pretty.

 

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16 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

and the last modern game I played was Doom 2016, just cos it looked so pretty.

Then you are not fit for your opinions on retro games.

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36 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

This is what I mean when I have no idea of modern games. I didn't know Fortnite had microtransactions, and what I've seen of it is baffling, like Overwatch was before it. Never played either, never will. Modern games don't really sway me, and the last modern game I played was Doom 2016, just cos it looked so pretty.

 


Then maybe you're ignorant of how deep the rot of monetisation runs in Triple-Ehhh games these days. Overwatch has (or at least had) lootboxes, which are basically a form of gambling except you get the chance to win in-game stuff, rather than real money. Lootboxes and microtransactions are deliberate and cynical ploys to squeeze as much cash as possible out of a small audience of big spenders, while needling the rest of the playerbase to hand over real cash for virtual goods with all the psychological pressures the publishers think they can get away with. Lootboxes have been experiencing some consumer backlash recently, which has resulted in EA pulling them from the latest Star Wars Battlefront game.


Funnily enough, Doom 2016 was released when major publishers were really getting into the swing of things in terms of trying to rinse out their customers. It's still going on today despite the backlash, yet Zenimax/Bethesda have either been unwilling or unable to push Id software down that route. That's one of the reasons that I've maintained my respect for Id.

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"Then you are not fit for your opinions on retro games."

What's that supposed to mean??

 

@Noxion:

 

I know what microtransactions are, I just said I didn't know that Fortnite had any, that's all.

 

As for your second paragraph: Of course Bethesda wouldn't dare push id Software down that route, it's too well respected and known.

 

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6 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

 

But you ARE being swayed by Doom Eternal, which is exactly the same sort of thing as Fortnite and COD, however.

 

I didnt think your comments couldnt be anymore dumber.

You're really running out of ideas of trashing Doom Eternal at this point.

 

No Doom Eternal isnt like Fortnite or CoD those 3 games arent even a like.

 

Sorry but some of us aren't nostalgia ridden idiots who hate everything new. 

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3 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

This is what I mean when I have no idea of modern games. I didn't know Fortnite had microtransactions, and what I've seen of it is baffling, like Overwatch was before it. Never played either, never will. Modern games don't really sway me, and the last modern game I played was Doom 2016, just cos it looked so pretty.

 



So..a dude that dont know about modern gaming want modern gaming to be retro gaming? Or you will still hate it because it's a game launched at 2020 then its bad cause bad.

Maybe try to back down with a good topic after, because it's just look, like,  trolling at this moment?

 

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6 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

 

But you ARE being swayed by Doom Eternal, which is exactly the same sort of thing as Fortnite and COD, however.

 

 

I think everyone has already covered the layers of "what the hell" that go with this comment.... 

 

Seriously though...what? In... what universe is Doom Eternal the same as COD, or the third person battle royale , free to play Fortnite? 

 

Seriously, you are reaching at this point. You may as well now insist that Doom Eternal is taking notes from DOTA 2 and Rainbow Six Siege while you're at it. 

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7 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

This is what I mean when I have no idea of modern games.

 

You have no room to be taken seriously on this topic then. I'd appreciate it if you stop pretending to know what you're talking about. 

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8 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

I didn't know Fortnite had microtransactions

You had to have known it was Free to Play (if you didn't even know that, you might be a little too far out of touch to be having this conversation), so how else did you expect Epic to maintain its services?

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20 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

You had to have known it was Free to Play (if you didn't even know that, you might be a little too far out of touch to be having this conversation), so how else did you expect Epic to maintain its services?

They just gave the game away for free to anyone who does the Fortnite Dance.

 

AgonizingGreatFiddlercrab-size_restricte

 

But i prefer DoomGuy's Totally Original Slay Jiggle.

 

ce-que-les-monstres-doom-voient.gif

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Is that the beastiary for the game that follows Eternal

Edited by sluggard : Its back so..

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Maybe most people's idea of "expanding" Doom before the reboot and a lot of fan content has something to do with things that one could see ever being official in an alternate timeline.

If Doom was as big as Street Figther, Sonic or Castlevania, things like remixes/remasters of songs, classic/same designs in HD, recurring art styles, a lot of "modernization" like those remake maps with added new features etc could have maybe happen.

Maybe even the new demon species, weapons or gameplay mechanics could have been the typical things we normally see in some mods.

 

But that could have been a timeline where Doom modding probably wouldn't happen like today and there wouldn't be a community making the games alive and accessible.

And one where Quake or Heretic wouldn't exist either because if Doom where to have more official titles, then the new engine/modified engine games would probably be titled under the name of Doom.

 

But it also shows that most "expanding" in the classic Doom series feels like it's usually fanmade except for the times there's official things like the QC/Eternal classic skins or maybe Eternal's old school designs. (or even stuff like additional classic mapsets in the new ports)

Maybe the RPG games too even though there's bits of Doom 3 in it.

 

Because the series changing art styles probably makes something like the Eternal Mancubus look fanmade without context. (and even then, the overall art style is still based on the new games)

And aside from occasional Mick Gordon bits and the 3DO OST, there's no official "remastered" sountrack unless something involving Andrew Hulshult happens or Doomguy stars in a certain crossover game, even though his chances are extremely low.

 

But there's also aspects of old Doom that are hard to "modernize", like trying to make classic levels look like actual places while retaining the same level geometry. (but trying to recreate the textures and visuals could be a different category)

 

There's also times when id does fanservice or throwback anything about old Doom and gets stuff wrong like a little bit of research is needed. (the kind of mistakes someone like Revenant100 usually points out)

 

A reason why some people expect or even want id to hire or work with some modders/content creators is because of stuff like this, i guess.

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On 2/21/2020 at 5:00 PM, Foebane72 said:

 

But you ARE being swayed by Doom Eternal, which is exactly the same sort of thing as Fortnite and COD, however.

 

stop spouting bullshit, thanks.

 

also: learn to quote.

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I've cleared that rather silly remark I made earlier. You're all correct, it was rather silly and made me look like a right retard.

 

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I wasn't won over by Doom 4 from the start. The armor being a very bad knockoff of Master Chief alone did me no favors. Screenshots looked bland, those really puffy gloves he wears would be a detriment to using your hands and the monster redesigns were hideous. That robot scientist looks like they wanted the Portal audience in a bad way even if it made no sense. Revenants are jetpack troopers from Metroid Prime. They were taking "inspiration" from things other than Doom, while they tossed their original concept sin the trash in a bad way. The closest to Doom was the fact he didn't talk and that's hardly a Doom-specific trait. Going for the Brutal Doom crowd with gimmick kills was pandering to Doom fans in the wrong way. I could play using Brutal Doom and Aeons Of Death and get the same feel of a game so mixed up it doesn't know what it is.

 

The Eternal cult only drove me further away, because right after the first trailer, it was... ahem... a string of right-wingers super thrilled that the "jokes" were saying what they wanted to hear and going on about how the game was "owning the SJWs" because maybe 2-3 of them said anything remotely about it and happy over the comparison of demons to immigrants. Bethesda/Id/Zenimax/whoever seemed to embrace all that free word-of-mouth and did nothing to distance from it.

 

Now they opted to try and get the classic fans on board with retconning him into Doomguy, sticking the original armor in, and that weird apartment where they confirm he's the descendant of BJ and Keen(of which the only "official" confirmation ever given prior was Doom RPG connecting to Wolenstein RPG), and since Bethesda got the rights to Doom 64 it's being used to explain how he's Doomguy- which the game was never "canon" to start with due to legal ownership issues in the day, being Midway's creation that was essentially just made under license with only some input from Carmack. And Daisy from the intermission screens is now his beloved keychain to try and tie it together harder.

 

The new armor looks tryhard with the Predator shoulder cannon and busy on the eyes. The sword looks more dopey than dangerous. The gameplay looks like it wants to be Serious Sam.

 

And the new TV spot was released... the rap used in it is making the people who swooned over the trailer's "jokes" furious.

 

The constant hype and gripe over the reboots have done enough to put me far away, and I wasn't too interested to start. They haven't won me over into even playing for free. It's not a sequel, it's a "familiar name" cash grab at this point and the internet whining from either side has only made me want to know about this even less than before.

 

Yes I am content to stick to the old games, source ports and user mods. I'm not going to give these a try and I've said well enough why that is. You want to buy and play them go ahead, but don't beg me to jump on your bandwagon like I'm expected to or constantly tell me how "masculine" it is.

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9 minutes ago, diosoth said:

You want to buy and play them go ahead

 

Thank you I will. 

 

11 minutes ago, diosoth said:

a string of right-wingers super thrilled that the "jokes" were saying what they wanted to hear and going on about how the game was "owning the SJWs" because maybe 2-3 of them said anything remotely about it and happy over the comparison of demons to immigrants.

Also I can't believe people are still referencing this complete nothing of a talking point.

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2 hours ago, diosoth said:

The armor being a very bad knockoff of Master Chief alone did me no favors.

If its different its bad, if its the the same design it's Try Hard. Sure

 

2 hours ago, diosoth said:

It's a "familiar name" cash grab at this point and the internet whining from either side has only made me want to know about this even less than before.

"I Don't like it so it must be a cash grab! how could something I don't like be made with love and passion" - Tru Doomer

 

2 hours ago, diosoth said:

That robot scientist looks like they wanted the Portal audience in a bad way even if it made no sense. Revenants are jetpack troopers from Metroid Prime. They were taking "inspiration" from things other than Doom, while they tossed their original concept sin the trash in a bad way. The closest to Doom was the fact he didn't talk and that's hardly a Doom-specific trait.

yeah, they should have just made it Exactly like Doom 1 with HD textures...

 

2 hours ago, diosoth said:

Going for the Brutal Doom crowd with gimmick kills was pandering to Doom fans in the wrong way. I could play using Brutal Doom and Aeons Of Death and get the same feel of a game so mixed up it doesn't know what it is.

 

Here we go again, Sorry to tell you but Fatalities have been around before Brutal Doom, Ever heard of Mortal Kombat? probably to young to remember that.

And yeah playing a missmatched Randomizer mod is the same as Doom Eternal... sure.

2 hours ago, diosoth said:

Yes I am content to stick to the old games, source ports and user mods. I'm not going to give these a try and I've said well enough why that is.

and we care about this because? If you can't even be bother to give them a try to get good judgement, your ranting mean nothing.

 

Say Hello to 1992 for me.

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