The Cuphead journalist guy played Doom Eternal

[Linguica]

OK, so there is a journalist named Dean Takahashi. He covers business stuff and his particular beat covers the video game industry. He is not much of a "gamer" himself and this often shows, most notoriously in a video where Takahashi is unable to figure out one of the basic mechanics of Cuphead.

 

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/08/the-deanbeat-our-cuphead-runneth-over/

 

Anyways, so that same guy tried his hand at the Doom Eternal press demo, with somewhat predictable results.

 

 

First off, you don't need to actually watch the whole video. It gets infuriating. You scream at the screen "AHHHH JUMP OVER THERE" but, viewer, he does not jump there.

 

However, watching the video shows you the problem that a AAA game like Doom Eternal has, and you can watch in real time as the sort of player that Doom Eternal needs to be able to train, starts to be trained.

 

• 1:23: Fight with arachnotron begins. The player is extremely befuddled by the enemy and is not sure what to do. In the process of fighting, player falls in lava and seems to not notice / anticipate it. Player actually mounts the critical path but is totally distracted by the arachnotron (obviously you get on the falling platform and jump over the flaming spikes to the next platform, but I am fluent in video game mechanics)
• 2:30: Finally "beats" the enemies in the little arena. The real pain begins.
• 2:40: Wanders over to the blue glowing jump pad but doesn't take the bait of the blue glow.
• 3:30: Inspects automap and finally realizes that he is supposed to be ultimately heading upward. You can see in real time as the player finally looks above the horizon for the first time and begins to notice what's above him.
• 4:30: Player stumbles across the jump pad. Player spends the next 3 minutes or so looking around, looking at the automap, etc. This gets old when watching in real time.
• 8:00: Player accidentally stumbles into a secret corridor with a monkey bar. Player is almost stuck inside but is able to monkey back out, showing the player does have some of the basic movement skills necessary, at least.
• 8:30: Player is practically dead at this point and feels like they are out of options.
• 10:00: Player FINALLY re-notices the falling platform again and figures, sure why not, but falls in the lava and pops the extra life, which at least takes away the pressure of being extremely hurt.
• 10:30: Player looks at map again, seemingly finally piecing together that there is a series of platforms leading elsewhere that he should be jumping between.
• 10:40: You can see the player turn left briefly as he rehearses the motion he has finally realized he is supposed to do.
• 10:45: The player jumps over the fiery chains and immediately fails to reach the first platform on the other side (lol). Although this looks like a failure, the player has obviously been "taught" by the game what they are supposed to do next.
• 10:50: Player frantically scrambles across lava to second jump pad, having Mr. Beaned to an armor pickup and new enemy encounter.

 

Anyways, I think that although it is incredibly frustrating to watch in real time, this video pretty well shows the sort of hapless player that games have to accomodate, and it seems like Doom Eternal manages to finally "teach" this player enough about the environment to proceed, in the end.

[Guest Unregistered account]

Looks like they're at least better at modern Doom platforming than me.

[Enforcer]

This video made me sick. .

[xdarkmasterx]

God damn...

 

i tink he will leave what has to be said to others XD. that aside, START of this level looks SICK. i was a bit disappointed in the lack of variety in hell environemnts in the first game, hopefully we'll spend more time in areas like these before diving back into floating rock land :P

[Yourfacedotcom]

I remember some interview or article where they were discussing the sort of process behind designing 2016 and how they used those green lights as indicators for platforms that could be mantled. Basically giving the user subtle visual ques to guide them. It's something you pick up on almost right away and it's consistently used throughout the game. I like this method, it teaches you organically through just playing it. No need for some annoying tutorial dialogue box to pop up and take you out of the action.

[Szymanski]

10 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

START of this level looks SICK. 

It really does, shame to just run past it. The inability to draw any conclusions from the map is impressive.

[Not Jabba]

The article by Takahashi that's linked in the OP is an interesting read.

[Test Tickle]

Lmaooo

[ReaperAA]

I watched the first 30 seconds and said to myself "He is doing ok so far. He even used dash to grab the extra dash powerup".

 

But then I watched the rest of video....

[Bauul]

"Video game literacy" is a major area of consideration for devs. Many games have a similar fundamental language for how to play that makes them child's play for an experienced gamer, but utterly befuddling for someone without that experience. 

 

As experienced gamers, we often don't even realize how much we rely on our intrinsic knowledge of how games work.

 

It's a tricky balancing act because you don't want to patronize experienced players but you should still try to cater for people who have never played a game before. Clearly id felt everyone who was invited to play this preview fell into the former, and this video proves the problems that can cause.

[The Doommer]

2 hours ago, Linguica said:

AAA game like Doom Eternal

So, confirming this, one youtuber called GManLives (HL and Doom hardcore fan) played the first 3 levels of the game in Bethesda Sydney headquarters and he said that this game will change FPS like Half-Life did. And knowing the guy, he does not have a bad taste of games.

[yakfak]

wondering if that's the same gmanlives with incredible taglines like "hexen: the dark souls of FPS" or someone less clickbaity lol

[The Doommer]

6 minutes ago, yakfak said:

if that's the same gmanlives with incredible taglines like "hexen: the dark souls of FPS"

It is the same dude

[Eurisko]

Well, that was pretty painful. Bless him, he did finally learn I suppose and this is what Hugo was talking about in that recent No-Clip interview. 

The game needs to force you to learn or you'll be punished. 

[Super Mighty G]

Something to note: You can hear the "Victory" track from OG Doom incorporated into the background ambience. 

 

Edit: Also, I scoff at anyone who says this game lacks atmosphere. 

[TheRedTide]

What in the name of Satan's butthole.....

[Fonze]

I think presenting this as a "video game literacy" issue is both disingenuous and simply incorrect when put up against all/any of this and the cuphead videos as well as the article written by the source himself. Wrt the cuphead video, according to the source, it was an issue of both a: 

Quote

which I myself labeled shameful ... I played the tutorial so ineptly — failing to read the onscreen instructions

 

and b:

Quote

I intended it to be funny ... misread the climate in which it was received ... It was naively devoid of context that possibly could have headed off that anger. So many people didn’t realize that this wasn’t a serious review. I was messing around at first, and I wasn’t focused and serious until I had warmed up.

 

Further wrt gaming literacy:

Quote

In all of my 45 years or so as a gamer — yep, since the original Pong came out —

 

Quote

I relish telling people that my kill-death ratio in Call of Duty is 1-to-2, meaning I get one kill for every two deaths of my own. I wear my failures in games as a badge of honor, in part because it signals that I am a fan of games and I enjoy them. 

 

He's just an old dog who refuses to learn new tricks, not somebody out-of-touch with games and game-logic.

 

And finally back on-topic: 

If you watch the doom video you can plainly see that his problems all stem from spatial reasoning/awareness as opposed to video game literacy; he clearly understands the movement mechanics of the game, but spends a lot of time looking at the map, back and forth map to first person trying to figure out where to go and what steps to take to get there. Gaming literacy? No; map literacy maybe, but definitely not a lack of gaming literacy.

[Doomkid]

This is the first time I’ve actually sat down and watched gameplay footage from Doom Eternal. This game looks so damn good - all the screenshots had already impressed me, but now I’m getting to that point where I’m genuinely eager to get my hands on it. I think the shitty playing actually made me more eager because I was just watching it thinking “omfg stop wandering around like a helpless buffoon and actually do something” so in a sense it was a really effective advertisement lol.

 

It also speaks really well for the game that even an ultra low-skill player can still get their foot in the door. I’m personally not a fan of games being super exclusionary, the simple addition of difficulty settings is a win-win because it’s not as though it magically removes the harder option for the more seasoned players, it just makes the game more accessible and adds replay value to boot. Glad to see Doom Eternal is apparently sticking to that principle, as pretty much every Doom game has. Definitely a strength of the series overall and a big contributor to it’s near-universal appeal. Great for newbies and veterans alike!

 

 

Wowza.. Dean Takahashi’s article there reads as though it were written by someone who hasn’t used the internet in about 20 years. I think it can be best summed up like this: “I’m in the video game industry and have been for 30 years but literally don’t know how to play most video games, but people on the internet said mean things, therefore the need to improve does not really lie with me, but the rest of the world.” 

 

I especially love the near-instantaneous jump into “my critics are shitlords and gamergaters who got Trump elected”. He laments being the target of pejoratives then immediately jumps to pejoratives.. Then he uses the “well, I’m just such a busy businessman, with all my business, so I don’t actually have time to play games” line. Ugh. The whole article is just dripping with condescension and excuse-making.

 

I’m one of those people who think damage control tends to look far worse than the “damage”. Before I just thought this guy was hapless, the whole situation was a laugh, a funny statement on how you don’t have to be good at a job to get your pay check - nothing more. All this patting himself on the back for what a “true veteran gamer” he is just looks moronic when coupled with footage of his attempts to play a platformer featuring gameplay not all that different from NES games or an FPS not all that different from DOS games..

My 60 year old mother who has a litany of medical issues would legitimately have learned the Cuphead tutorial faster, and my 62 year old dad would fucking obliterate this guy in any video game. It’s not like they’re big time game players either, maybe a total of an hour per week in my dad’s case.

 

I agree with his sentiment that gAmErS should be nicer, but that criticism applies just as well to the entire damn species (and also has nothing to do with the fact that he sucks monkey farts at basic, long-established genres like platformers and FPS)

 

tl;dr this dude should have left the situation alone rather than writing an article where he blows smoke up his own butt

[BBQgiraffe]

 

[Linguica]

3 minutes ago, Fonze said:

He's just an old dog who refuses to learn new tricks, not somebody out-of-touch with games and game-logic.

Tell me what the difference here is supposed to mean and what it justifies. 

[Gez]

1 minute ago, Doomkid said:

I think the shitty playing actually made me more eager because I was just watching it thinking “omfg stop wandering around like a helpless buffoon and actually do something” so in a sense it was a really effective advertisement lol.

Ah, the Terraria Pbat gambit. "No, you're doing it wrong, just let me show you" is a powerful motivation.

[Fonze]

He says himself he's been playing games for many years and writes hundreds or so of articles each year, but yet is proud to be bad. so I have trouble believing he is out-of-touch with the logic of what his career is based around, at the very least for the amount of time invested, never mind that it is his livelihood.

 

*edit*

It dawns on me that this isnt a really good answer to the question, but I suppose the difference is comparing somebody who doesnt play many video games and is thus illiterate for lack of exposure to somebody who plays games all the time, is proud to be bad at them and has no desire to improve despite extreme levels of exposure. The difference in what they imply is why I consider that to be disingenuous. As for what it justifies; idk, I'm not sure I understand what I'm being asked.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Fonze

[TheRedTide]

16 minutes ago, Fonze said:

I think presenting this as a "video game literacy" issue is both disingenuous and simply incorrect when put up against all/any of this and the cuphead videos as well as the article written by the source himself. Wrt the cuphead video, according to the source, it was an issue of both a: 

 

and b:

 

Further wrt gaming literacy:

 

 

He's just an old dog who refuses to learn new tricks, not somebody out-of-touch with games and game-logic.

 

And finally back on-topic: 

If you watch the doom video you can plainly see that his problems all stem from spatial reasoning/awareness as opposed to video game literacy; he clearly understands the movement mechanics of the game, but spends a lot of time looking at the map, back and forth map to first person trying to figure out where to go and what steps to take to get there. Gaming literacy? No; map literacy maybe, but definitely not a lack of gaming literacy.

Ah yes, the classic "I was only pretending to be retarded" defense.

Edited January 25, 2020 by TheRedTide

[Not Jabba]

22 minutes ago, Fonze said:

If you watch the doom video you can plainly see that his problems all stem from spatial reasoning/awareness as opposed to video game literacy

Not sure I accept this distinction; if there's any one skill at the core of video game literacy, it's spatial reasoning/awareness, especially the ability to re-apply spatial logic to whatever perspective the game is giving you.

[Lila Feuer]

He sounds like a wiener so I'm going to call him that. I'm being nice today btw.

[Fonze]

NJ, I was in the middle of typing up and intelligent response to you, but then it hit me that this conversation is about to be artificially difficult, so maybe we should do ourselves both a favor and agree that maybe the phrase/term isnt the best, heh

[Nevander]

I don't know what frustrates me more, the guy's playing or the amount of platforming that I see.

[Denim Destroyer]

Anyone else notice the remix of "Waiting For Romero To Play" 6:30?

[whirledtsar]

wow, just look at how much health he gets after glorykilling that arachnotron. i dont inherently dislike glorykills, but i hate how they give you more health depending on how low you are. just makes it feel like youre getting special treatment when you shouldve died.

[The Doommer]

2 minutes ago, whirledtsar said:

youre getting special treatment when you shouldve died.

You always had a high chance of death in DOOM 2016 and the glory kills saved your ass.

This is the same, though more difficult AI.