Noclip: "Designing DOOM Eternal's New & Classic Demons"

[Linguica]

 

[Hunting4r2d2]

I'm a little disappointed that it seems the Arch-vile will only be able to summon demons rather than resurrect them, but I love how they essentially made the Doom Hunter have multiple phases.

[Zemini]

Hugo says that he thinks he got all the new demons from doom 2 in Doom Eternal.  Does that confirm the chaingunner?  If so the only one missing from classic doom (as a regular mini boss) is the Spider Mastermind.  Maybe we get a larger arachnotron variant?

 

Looks like the Archvile is just a heavier Summoner.  I hope we get to kill both.

[Gez]

41 minutes ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

I'm a little disappointed that it seems the Arch-vile will only be able to summon demons rather than resurrect them

They'd need to have persistent corpses, which is something that evaporated from the series in Doom 3 and was never resurrected since.

[xdarkmasterx]

Man I hope they turn up the gore in the game... it just looks wrong seeing a mancubus get stabbed right through the head with only the tiny bloodpuff... phases through the ground with no splatter decal :/

Edited January 26, 2020 by xdarkmasterx

[Guest Unregistered account]

Summoning demons isn't nearly as badass as bringing dead ones back to life IMO, but I guess it probably has other benefits like not having to worry about placing tough demons before Archviles and risking frustration when they get all their health back. And yeah the disappearing corpse thing was the first thing I thought of when I heard it. I didn't hear anything about its original line-of-sight based attack, which makes me a little concerned because that was one of the most unique, defining and fun aspects of the original one IMO. Though if it's not returning, I can again understand.

I don't like the idea of having a specifically female demon, I feel the demons should always be sexless abominations but I'm not too fussed. Also lole @ hugo mentioning they can't show demon tiddies

 

Anyway this was definitely a fun watch.

[Gez]

8 minutes ago, Kapanyo said:

I don't like the idea of having a specifically female demon, I feel the demons should always be sexless abominations but I'm not too fussed.

Always been my idea too, and I'm amused that "female demon" means that she has hair.

 

Besides it's not even accurate to say the whiplash is the first female demon, since the 2016 version of the Spider Mastermind is Olivia Pierce turned into a demon. (Also something something Vagary something something Doom 3 lost souls.)

[TheRedTide]

7 minutes ago, Gez said:

Always been my idea too, and I'm amused that "female demon" means that she has hair.

 

Besides it's not even accurate to say the whiplash is the first female demon, since the 2016 version of the Spider Mastermind is Olivia Pierce turned into a demon. (Also something something Vagary something something Doom 3 lost souls.)

I used to think that the Summoner on Doom'16 was also female because its demeanor and silhouette looked very feminine, like a slender ballet dancer.

[RonnieJamesDiner]

I really like that Whiplash demon, looks like it could make for some fun and interesting encounters.

[Super Mighty G]

1 hour ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

I'm a little disappointed that it seems the Arch-vile will only be able to summon demons rather than resurrect them, but I love how they essentially made the Doom Hunter have multiple phases.

I'm disappointed by that too but at the same time I understand why it needs to be that way because the demons don't leave lasting corpses like in 1994. If you think about it though it could very well summon a strong demon that you just got done killing which is effectively the same problem to deal with. 

[Hunting4r2d2]

13 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

I'm disappointed by that too but at the same time I understand why it needs to be that way because the demons don't leave lasting corpses like in 1994. If you think about it though it could very well summon a strong demon that you just got done killing which is effectively the same problem to deal with. 

Yea, I get why they did it, and in many ways summoning new demons achieves many of the somethings resurrecting dead ones does. No matter what, I still feel like our lanky friend will be a key player on the battlefield whose presence demands the player to deal with them as soon as possible.

[Soundblock]

Brand new demons? Hm, I see both a humming-bird like seemingly mechanic flier and a female snake creature in these Adrian arts from Catacombs 3D:

 

 

...maybe we'll get the black-cloaked eydolon and possessed trees in the next installment?

[MadGuy]

So they brought back DOOM 3 Arch-vile but they forgot Vagary exists. Interesting.

[Gez]

14 minutes ago, Soundblock said:

Brand new demons? Hm, I see both a humming-bird like seemingly mechanic flier and a female snake creature in these Adrian arts from Catacombs 3D:

 

 

...maybe we'll get the black-cloaked eydolon and possessed trees in the next installment?

 

Really, the whiplash is just the snake imp.

 

And the marauder is a Hell guard, obviously.

 

[Michniko]

My profile picture stands

[whatup876]

Speaking of female demons, there's also D64's Mother Demon and i guess this also negates the existence of subbuci demons in Doom, but not like that could translate well into gameplay.

The Archvile thing is a bit of a shame, since he's one of the most unique and iconic FPS enemies.

 

 

I hope the way how he summons foes at least feels like he's actually summoning a demon next to him, instead of just making the enemies spawn like it's the spawn waves still happening in the arena. (the summoner couldn't spawn in SnapMap, so i wonder if he even has that ability and isn't coded in a way to make level spawns keep going)

Or at least place him in areas that aren't arenas with waves of spawning enemies, since it's what made the Summoner feel a bit misused.

Bonus point if his summoning has a skullcube like the ones from the Icon of Sin.

 

The DoomHunter at least sounds interesting and it turns out the weapon he's holding is a chaingun. (maybe similar to the player's)

 

1 hour ago, Gez said:

 

Really, the whiplash is just the snake imp.

 

And the marauder is a Hell guard, obviously.

 

 

If they're gonna take inspiration from other games, mods or even random ideas someone wrote, i hope it means more enemy/enemy abilities variety and i know i keep bringing this up and coming with some dumb ideas but i believe there is potential on making a lot of crazy stuff work.

 

 

I don't wanna say "id please take these ideas, they sound kind of epic i swear" but.... i mean, if there's barely any plans for the DLC campaigns/expansions...

[NeoWorm]

It looks like most of demons got multiple attacks that work in multiple situation kinda removing their characteristics. They are now interchangable and dangerous in many ways which kinda means they are mostly the same. In most of the videos I really don't see anybody even trying to priritize targets, just shooting at whatever is in front of them only reacting to the latest attack. Ammo and health economy is also bust since you get both by killing demons as you need it and pre combat strategy is also gone since most monsters teleport in during the arena fights. Higher ground is gone because all monsters can either fly or jump etc... I liked 2016, but I am more and more worried about Eternal, it looks more and more like Painkiller and Painkiller was boring after like 20 minutes.

[MrGlide]

This video gives me alot of hope, got a good feeling about this.

[Egg Boy]

Calling it a "hellified soldier" instead of "former human," disgusting.

 

/s

[whatup876]

Also, his animated sprite looked poor and the classic Arachno's footage seems to be this.

 

 

[Liquid Ink]

"The Whiplash isn't anatomically correct because we want to use her in marketing" Does that mean the Vagary is in there but they can't show her for marketing reasons? :P:P

[Rainne]

4 hours ago, Kapanyo said:

I don't like the idea of having a specifically female demon, I feel the demons should always be sexless abominations

In the video, he refers to most of the demons, including new ones being introduced for Doom Eternal (such as the Marauder), as "he", and thus not sexless. Any objection to that?

 

Most of the demons throughout the series are male-coded; the Baron / Hell Knight have distinctly masculine physiques for example. All zombies / former-human type enemies are male. Aside from the Spider Mastermind (itself a "sexless abomination" but referred to with feminine pronouns when not referred to as "it"), the scene where you meet Theresa Chazar in Doom 3 is the first time in the Doom series that its world became distinguishable from a world in which women and womanhood literally don't exist. No one would take the design of the Doom/3/4 worlds as implying men and masculinity don't exist. The demons might be "it" and might not have dicks and might not be officially male but no one would think it's an androgynous, sexless world or that masculinity has no influence or place in it.

 

Masculinity is not gender-neutral.

[whatup876]

1 hour ago, NeoWorm said:

It looks like most of demons got multiple attacks that work in multiple situation kinda removing their characteristics. They are now interchangable and dangerous in many ways which kinda means they are mostly the same. In most of the videos I really don't see anybody even trying to priritize targets, just shooting at whatever is in front of them only reacting to the latest attack. Ammo and health economy is also bust since you get both by killing demons as you need it and pre combat strategy is also gone since most monsters teleport in during the arena fights. Higher ground is gone because all monsters can either fly or jump etc... I liked 2016, but I am more and more worried about Eternal, it looks more and more like Painkiller and Painkiller was boring after like 20 minutes.

 

It looks like enemy variety relies on AI and hitboxes while Doom 2 made it about abilities and attacks, with the exception of the Hellknight.

Something like the cyber possessed is just a possessed borrowing two attacks from the possessed soldier and Mancubus' flame thrower.

 

It also happens that Doomguy himself has a variety of abilities and weapons, as if there was a lot of effort into him.

It's sort of why i made that post (and some others) with ideas about enemy attacks and concepts like that, because i believe all of that could fit somehow, given the way how the games do things and some possible solutions/excuses for said attacks/abilities to exist.

 

I do sound like someone pretending to know what designing a game is like and writing what is basically "gameplay fanfiction wishing to be canon" but the new games are sometimes influenced by fanservice and memes around the series.

I'm just saying, these games are often compared to other titles because of what most people assume where id gets ideas for the new Doom's, so you may as well take some good ideas... like the ones i brought up.

Maybe even for the DLC expansions/campaigns because i don't think they started development on that or have that many plans besides some bits of story or potential protagonists.

[CyberDreams]

9 hours ago, TheRedTide said:

I used to think that the Summoner on Doom'16 was also female because its demeanor and silhouette looked very feminine, like a slender ballet dancer.

Me too.

 

9 hours ago, Super Mighty G said:

I'm disappointed by that too but at the same time I understand why it needs to be that way because the demons don't leave lasting corpses like in 1994. If you think about it though it could very well summon a strong demon that you just got done killing which is effectively the same problem to deal with. 

I wonder...if the corpses actually did stay in the new game what would happen? Would it just make the game "chug" harder? I'm assuming so. Probably a ton too on consoles. So i'm assuming it was just an engine or optimization choice that they chose not to have corpses stay.

[Hunting4r2d2]

I was looking at the Doom Hunter trailer again and I noticed that you can actually see him without the hover-board for a split second, right before he gets glory killed.

 

 

[Super Mighty G]

1 hour ago, CyberDreams said:

Me too.

 

I wonder...if the corpses actually did stay in the new game what would happen? Would it just make the game "chug" harder? I'm assuming so. Probably a ton too on consoles. So i'm assuming it was just an engine or optimization choice that they chose not to have corpses stay.

That is generally how it works. At the start leaving some corpses might not be a problem but as the level progresses and more and more pile up the memory gets eaten up which isn't good for performance. Even if you coded it to not render corpses out of sight there would still need to be a check to tell the game where each one is. It's just easier to have them disappear. 

 

I can't say if this is 100% accurate however. It's mostly an educated guess.

[JDR]

What's with this arachnotron?
 

[Gez]

It's a custom monster. They took footage from a random Youtube video showcasing a few custom Arachnotron variants instead of recording their own. A few posts above, @whatup876 found the video in question. The next after that was an arachnobaron, so that should have warned them it wasn't vanilla content, but hey.

 

Though seriously, what's up with this:

 

[Caffeine Freak]

5 minutes ago, Gez said:

Though seriously, what's up with this:

 

 

Seems like they screencapped the sprite in-game, and created an alpha channel using the grey background as a transparency layer, which cut out some of the pixels. Sloppy if I may say so.

[jazzmaster9]

13 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

It looks like most of demons got multiple attacks that work in multiple situation kinda removing their characteristics. They are now interchangable and dangerous in many ways which kinda means they are mostly the same. In most of the videos I really don't see anybody even trying to priritize targets, just shooting at whatever is in front of them only reacting to the latest attack. Ammo and health economy is also bust since you get both by killing demons as you need it and pre combat strategy is also gone since most monsters teleport in during the arena fights. Higher ground is gone because all monsters can either fly or jump etc... I liked 2016, but I am more and more worried about Eternal, it looks more and more like Painkiller and Painkiller was boring after like 20 minutes.

I got the complete opposite take away from the video.

It looks like each monster has attacks that fit their specific role with whiplash being the monster that keeps you on your toes with its sudden position changes, the arachnophobia being the projectile vomit turret and the Pain elemental being... a pain elemental.

 

Painkiller is mostly backpedal and press shoot, this is not the case with Eternal with how the monsters have specific movement that can surround you.