Noclip: "Designing DOOM Eternal's New & Classic Demons"

[Super Mighty G]

3 hours ago, D88M3R said:

he says all the stuff that i do not want to hear and that have no place in a Doom game.

What gives you the authority to decide what "has no place" in Doom?

 

3 hours ago, D88M3R said:

Then there is the stuff that he says about each demon, which tells me this guy has never even touched a Doom game

This is biased drivel. Don't make arguments you know nothing about.

 

Your arguments go beyond simply disliking something into full blown nonsense.

[whatup876]

Actually i think even the bosses here have similar attacks to some enemies except for some exceptions like the summonable wolf from the Marauder.

2016's bosses had some attacks regular enemies didn't have and i thought some ideas would be reused like the spinning flame bars from the first Hell Guard.

 

I just wonder what even happened to the Hell Razer since he filled a niche unless he's going to be replaced by something else like the Maykr drones.

 

[dewmguy]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:51 AM, D88M3R said:

 

That is not what i mean, i mean that when he is trying to sell me the game, he fails miserably, he says all the stuff that i do not want to hear and that have no place in a Doom game.

for most of us, he succeeded

 

On 2/5/2020 at 7:51 AM, D88M3R said:

Then there is the stuff that he says about each demon, which tells me this guy has never even touched a Doom game: he says crap like "how important" is to get the Archvile right (just to say one example) but i find that funny the character is unrecognizable until he does the classic pose.

 

I stopped watching the video like 5 minutes in because it was taking away the little hype i have for the game.
I hope they focused more on level design and fun gameplay than pretty graphics, modern gaming BS, platforming and arenas and other stuff that was the weak point of the previous game.

ok d33m8r.

all the nitpicks you pose as arguments give off the vibe "nuDoom bad old Doom good"

Face it.

Even after all the nitpicks doom 2016 was a commercial success and multiple award winner and brought a dying series back to life.

AND was still better than most games in a decade

On 2/5/2020 at 7:52 AM, D88M3R said:

 

The new Doom games seem deeply influenced by fan wads, the two new games in fact are like two big and expensive fan fictions.

What you call as games that "shouldn't come under the name of Doom" are here to stay and catering to more audience than the previous entries

If you don't like the new entries you can always go back to playing WADs and should't complain over how id Software didn't take your opinion on how to make games 

[Novaseer]

14 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I just wonder what even happened to the Hell Razer since he filled a niche unless he's going to be replaced by something else like the Maykr drones.

 

If that niche was being completely and utterly irrelevant in every level where they're used then yes, I guess they did fill a niche.

[D88M3R]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:53 AM, Super Mighty G said:

What gives you the authority to decide what "has no place" in Doom?

 

This is biased drivel. Don't make arguments you know nothing about.

 

Your arguments go beyond simply disliking something into full blown nonsense.

 

No authority, but if i have played the game and there is stuff that does not work, as a costumer i have the right to expression my opinion and they as developers should listen if they want me to buy their next game. 

 

And if they put something like weapon mods, that has no place in Doom, and the mechanic sucks, then i was proven right that there was a reason why it did not had a place in the game in the first place.

And when i hear the guy talking about demons, i go "wow, this guy has never played a Doom game or knows nothing about it", of course that maybe he played it, but the game he made and the way he talks about it tells me that maybe not.

 

22 hours ago, dewmguy said:

for most of us, he succeeded

 

ok d33m8r.

all the nitpicks you pose as arguments give off the vibe "nuDoom bad old Doom good"

Face it.

Even after all the nitpicks doom 2016 was a commercial success and multiple award winner and brought a dying series back to life.

AND was still better than most games in a decade

What you call as games that "shouldn't come under the name of Doom" are here to stay and catering to more audience than the previous entries

If you don't like the new entries you can always go back to playing WADs and should't complain over how id Software didn't take your opinion on how to make games 

 

Good for you, i just want a new Doom game made with a big budget and modern technology, something that is just exactly like the old games, but with modern graphics, it would be awesome.

 

I dont see it as nitpicks but as flaws, okay some stuff like the demons looking like aliens instead of demons could be argued that is nitpicking.

Honestly i was excited about D16 when it was announced and when i saw some gameplay, but then they started to show stuff like the dumb chainsaw mechanics, the glory kills (you should have seen my face, i was like wtf!!!! they put mechanics from that awful brutal doom mod!) the poor enemy design, then i played it and it was like "meh, the old ones are still better"

 

I am glad that they made Doom "relevant" again and is true that is better than most games from today because they put a little of old school in it, but is still a meh game, pandering to casuals is part of it.

 

Is not that i dont like the new entries, is that they could be so much better, if they were awesome i would love them, but they are meh games so they generate a meh response from meh.

[D88M3R]

10 hours ago, Novaseer said:

If that niche was being completely and utterly irrelevant in every level where they're used then yes, I guess they did fill a niche.

 

As long as those damn, stupid, boring to play, poorly implemented soldiers with shields are not in...

[oCrapaCreeper]

9 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

 

As long as those damn, stupid, boring to play, poorly implemented soldiers with shields are not in...

They’re still in and even harder than last time, even in groups of at least 6! But the Plasma Gun chews through shields like crazy now and makes short work of them, so that’s the weapon of choice against that chess piece.

[Gez]

5 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

Good for you, i just want a new Doom game made with a big budget and modern technology, something that is just exactly like the old games, but with modern graphics, it would be awesome.

 

We already have something that is exactly like the old games, and it is the old games.

[snapshot]

Just needs HD textures to make it even better, look up DHTP textures lol.

[seed]

And needless to say that's only a dream.

 

Both developers and players alike want to go in new directions and explore new territory, push the boundaries, and just do things differently. If you want more of the same, well guess what, you can have just that - see classic Doom and its mods.

 

Thanks for proving my point that no developer is interested in listening to people who are stuck living in the past and refuse to move on. No one wants to do the same thing forever, and understandably so.

[oCrapaCreeper]

Watching this video of nightmare mode (Spudhunter, who actually knows how to play) definitely shows how everything Hugo as been talking about is in full effect. It’s looking great! And it’s only the from (mostly) the first few levels... 
 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by oCrapaCreeper

[snapshot]

2 minutes ago, seed said:

And needless to say that's only a dream.

It was a joke, relax man, I'm not the one asking for a high quality remake or whatever.

[seed]

5 minutes ago, sluggard said:

It was a joke, relax man, I'm not the one asking for a high quality remake or whatever.

 

No that wasn't meant for you, it was supposed to be a continuation to Gez's post in response to d88m3r, but you ninja'd me *shrugs*

 

Also I'm not angry lol. Trust me, you'll know when I am :p.

[Novaseer]

33 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

 

As long as those damn, stupid, boring to play, poorly implemented soldiers with shields are not in...

The shield soldiers are in, but the plasma rifle now basically one-shots those shields, and triggers a massive explosion that instagibs the soldier and nearby fodder demons.

[Gez]

Okay so it's not modern modern, but:

 

 

Looks terrible. The 3D models render apparent all the issues that get masked by the abstractness of the sprites. Like the monster movement behavior, the slowness of the projectiles, etc. Does anyone think this would look better if it used Doom Eternal models instead?

[snapshot]

6 minutes ago, Gez said:

Does anyone think this would look better if it used Doom Eternal models instead?

You never know lol

[TheOrganGrinder]

The movement pattern they've talked about for the Whiplash there is really interesting.  Like... fast, "bursty" movement, powerful melee attacks, good at getting behind you?  That's the Quake Fiend right there; except the Fiend just throws itself at your face, and when it gets behind you it's often enough a shortcoming of the jump AI or a reward for successfully evading its jump attack and making it overshoot, so it has to take a little bit of time to turn around for another attack and you can shoot it from relative safety as it does so.  Whereas the Whiplash seems to be all about deliberately getting behind the plater, when it passes out of your line of sight you can't ignore it like you can the Fiend because that's when it's the most dangerous.  Similarly, the directness of the Fiend's attack motivates you to shoot it while it's jumping and following a predictable path more-or-less directly toward you, whereas the drop-and-slither movement of the Whiplash is the opposite of that.  So it sounds like actually dealing with a Whiplash will be difficult, with its fast irregular movement making it hard to track with any weapon and especially tricky to tag with a projectile and its drive to outflank you forcing you to take your guns off other enemies, but simultaneously dangerous to ignore due to its big melee attacks.  That's a nice sounding bit of design right there.

[whatup876]

I guess that strafe heavy/around-the-player/right-behind-you type movement is something i forgot to consider from the Whiplash.

Because as far as i know, i haven't seen any other enemy actually orbit around the player or something similar.

I thought the Hellknights where the Quake Fiend in this new Doom iteration because of the jump attack being similar but i guess that's just me.

 

Spoiler

I also hope that the fat red beast from the concept art and that iron demon skull tablet from the cultist base can be bosses/enemies as well.

 

[Super Mighty G]

10 hours ago, D88M3R said:

 

No authority, but if i have played the game and there is stuff that does not work, as a costumer i have the right to expression my opinion and they as developers should listen if they want me to buy their next game. 

 

And if they put something like weapon mods, that has no place in Doom, and the mechanic sucks, then i was proven right that there was a reason why it did not had a place in the game in the first place.

And when i hear the guy talking about demons, i go "wow, this guy has never played a Doom game or knows nothing about it", of course that maybe he played it, but the game he made and the way he talks about it tells me that maybe not.

 

Your entitlement is staggering. 

 

As you said you have no authority to declare what has no place in Doom. And you proven right? How? Absolute nonsense. 

 

Your evaluation of Hugo's overview of the demons is so out of touch I'm convinced this argument is made in zero good faith. He never played Doom? It's totally disgusting how you force this narrative because you hate what the game represents so much. 

 

"Just make Doom with HD graphics" is an empty demand and not realistic. Even if they made that you would still find some flaw in it because you refuse to let go of the image of Doom that is burned into your mind. And that is OG Doom just the way it is with no changes, innovations, or improvements.

[seed]

@Super Mighty G I think it's time to stop mate. It's obvious we're dealing with a troll who has a tunnel vision of what Doom "should be" or "shouldn't be" and we're just wasting our time talking about this any further...

[snapshot]

He's trolling, don't feed him, the guy just pops in every few days to post stuff like this to trigger people then leaves:

15 hours ago, D88M3R said:

Elaborate or dont say that to me and leave it at that

[ASON-Z-]

22 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Watching this video of nightmare mode (Spudhunter, who actually knows how to play) definitely shows how everything Hugo as been talking about is in full effect. It’s looking great! And it’s only the from (mostly) the first few levels... 
 

 

Seriously, if this doesn't convince any of the more doubtful fans, I don't know what will.

This shit looks brutal as FUCK.

[whatup876]

Something i noticed about the Carcass is that they shoot their energy rings in a volley, even if they come in multiple.

So he shoots a group of like 5 rings at a time like:

00000....00000....00000....

Think of the zeros as a representation of that attack.

I wonder if it could be like that one grey Arachnotron/small Spider Mastermind enemy in Beyond Reality (that mod by Darsycho) where the few projectiles are shoot at the same time but come in different speeds, so the further they travel, they're somewhat more spaced out. (and they're done in a half-second volley)

So the ring in one end is faster and the ring in the other end is slower, so the rings in each "turn" are ordered by speed or something.

 

I also thought of an attack for a large enemy like a Baalgar.

Basically an earthquake attack that causes large rocks from the ceiling to fall so they "create" walls that could affect how the player moves in the area. (almost as if the level geometry was changing but not so quite)

Something like that 2016 Cybie attack where he summons walls or the 2016 Spider Mastermind fight where she could summon pillars at times.