DOOM Eternal Will Have No Microtransactions Creative Director Confirms

[whatup876]

I think an issue is how that content and some other stuff affects the "post mortem" state of the game.

Like what content could be missed when the developers move on and all.

Most modern games are never "whole", they're always something attached that is online or related to a service or something.

With all the talk about show/movie streaming services, games preservation and lost media, that sort of stuff can be relevant in a series like Doom of all things. (whether you bring up the open source/modding scene or the "x is temporary, Doon is Eternal" memes)

Videogames are an interactive medium, so their accessibility might as well correlate with preservation/documentation to make sure that a game exists outside of videos and screenshots.

 

Hell, i remember that one Doog Eternal easter egg being available for a short while and it's nothing but i try to see things in a "more good, less bad" math-like way.

[jazzmaster9]

4 hours ago, Quasar said:

I fully expect to see pay-to-win come to the series in the future, and maybe lootbox-like mechanics with randomization to them to boot. And people will cheer for it like they are doing now.

If anything you can have a "i told you so" moment here as well once it happens in 3-5 years.

Corporate meddling had ruin something good once again.

Edited October 1, 2022 by jazzmaster9

[Caffeine Freak]

Part of the problem is, many gamers are too desensitized to these types of money-making tactics to truly become upset when companies pull shit like this. I feel like there really weren't many complaints when the first batch of paid cosmetics dropped. On the other hand, the backlash from the Doom community over the Denuvo patch was sufficient to make id reassess the situation and change course, so id clearly aren't past the point of caring what their player base thinks. If the paid cosmetics had been met with a similar degree of backlash, I have to wonder if they would have changed course on that as well.

 

Bottom line, gamers need to react vociferously to stuff like this when it happens if they ever want it to change. The reaction to the Denuvo patch was a good example of how to draw a line in the sand. Unpleasant as that whole episode was, sometimes it's the only way to create the changes you want.

[whatup876]

That is also depending on the fanbase's status as a whole, as in demographics and portions that happen to be louder than another.

I think we've talked about this in other threads, how a lot of new fans either make up a new noticeable demographic or are simply louder because of stuff like internet algorithms.

 

It's how you have people display Doom "loyalty" or some sort of devotion, but are still part in that surface "level" of posting memes and basic content like that, so older or special areas like wads or source port stuff will fly over their heads.

Like the "nerd culture split" of actual smart/talented nerds vs Funko Pop collectors or the people that grew up with internet animations and browser games vs those who watch streamers, TikTok's and basic memes.

You can make all the arguements you want about the cool things that Doom's community did over the years and how 90% of them barely apply to this demographic (hell, i even made a thread like that) but some of these people and their e-celebs/personalities have the algorithms or "spotlight" on their side.

 

Guess the least you can do is see if you can convince some of them to talk about more interesting things.

 

This stuff is also the effect of Doom being a series that "everyone must like", which explains statements like "Doomguy is the most X character" and how a lot of people wanted him to be in Smash or Eternal to win the VGA's.

[ENEMY!!!]

I believe that, not just in the realm of gaming, people generally accept user-unfriendly changes if they arise slowly and incrementally over time, rather than seeing big changes come in all at once, and especially if it's a widespread thing rather than just coming from one or two companies.  Individual steps aren't a big enough deal to be worth worrying about, but when they accumulate over time, the consequences can become large.  Gamers are increasingly desensitized to these sort of money-making tactics because they keep sneaking in gradually over time.  The Denuvo patch was a big step, and so it triggered a big backlash.

 

I too have long-term concerns about Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda/id, though I don't expect it to have major impacts on Doom Eternal, especially given that a large proportion of DE's player base is on Steam.  It will probably especially affect games further down the line - I can foresee increasing microtransactions and reliance on the Microsoft Store and Microsoft accounts, which Microsoft then uses to persistently advertise and push their other products such as Microsoft 365 and Microsoft Edge.

Edited October 1, 2022 by ENEMY!!!

[Eurisko]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:32 PM, Foebane72 said:

HELLO, ALL! Foebane72 BACK again!

 

I thought I'd come back on this thread to vindicate myself, as I SAID that Doom Eternal would have microtransactions, and you all said at the time that it wouldn't.

 

Well, LOOK who's been proved right!

 

So what have you to say to the fact that Hugo Martin did a complete U-turn on what he said about microtransactions, and even though now they are generally cosmetic, I would not be surprised if, in a future Bethesda/id Software Doom game, you have to BUY with REAL MONEY the weapons and even ammo you need to beat the game!

 

I had bad feelings about Doom Eternal, despite some good parts, and this proves me right all along!

 

Oh wow. This is what bumped the thread? 

The items that are on offer in Eternal are in no way “MicroTransactions” 

Go and take a look at Roblox and Fortnite and COD and FIFA and…….
 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Eurisko

[indigotyrian]

On 10/1/2022 at 6:02 AM, ENEMY!!! said:

I believe that, not just in the realm of gaming, people generally accept user-unfriendly changes if they arise slowly and incrementally over time, rather than seeing big changes come in all at once, and especially if it's a widespread thing rather than just coming from one or two companies.  Individual steps aren't a big enough deal to be worth worrying about, but when they accumulate over time, the consequences can become large.  Gamers are increasingly desensitized to these sort of money-making tactics because they keep sneaking in gradually over time.  The Denuvo patch was a big step, and so it triggered a big backlash.

 

I too have long-term concerns about Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda/id, though I don't expect it to have major impacts on Doom Eternal, especially given that a large proportion of DE's player base is on Steam.  It will probably especially affect games further down the line - I can foresee increasing microtransactions and reliance on the Microsoft Store and Microsoft accounts, which Microsoft then uses to persistently advertise and push their other products such as Microsoft 365 and Microsoft Edge.

 

I think it's less about slow incremental creeping changes and more about just constant battery. Eventually people just fold over and accept it. Think of how many predatory things in information technology nowadays (not just gaming but anything involving consumer electronics) that are nowadays seen as common and acceptable were once loudly decried by basically everyone? The lesson Silicon Valley taught everyone is that if you keep asserting something long enough it eventually becomes an inescapable truth.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

44 minutes ago, segfault said:

I think it's less about slow incremental creeping changes and more about just constant battery. Eventually people just fold over and accept it. Think of how many predatory things in information technology nowadays (not just gaming but anything involving consumer electronics) that are nowadays seen as common and acceptable were once loudly decried by basically everyone? The lesson Silicon Valley taught everyone is that if you keep asserting something long enough it eventually becomes an inescapable truth.

First they fold over, then they bend over. Some people are so vulnerable to e-Stockholm Syndrome that they become unpaid corporate shills. All the abuser has to do is occasionally do something "nice" for the victim. I'll use an example I've been seeing lately - Cyberpunk 2077.

 

>New game is being developed by one of the "good guys" in the gaming industry.

 

>The good guys make every promise in the world, and they know people will believe it, because they are the good guys after all.

 

>"Man the good guys are so awesome, they really care about us. Let's hype this shit up on reddit."

 

>Hype, pre-orders, news articles, memes, etc.

 

>Game is released and it's a broken, glitchy mess that delivered about 10% of the things the good guys promised.

 

>"There are no good guys left in the industry anymore, how could this happen, *sob* I fear for The Witcher 4 *sob*"

 

>TWO YEARS PASS

 

>"We fixed most of the bad glitches in the game, and made some minor adjustments. Now the game is 12% of what we promised it would be. Also, have you watched the anime series yet?"

 

>"OMG THE GOOD GUYS ARE BACK!!! HYPE THIS SHIT UP ON REDDIT LESSSSGOOOO!!! I ALWAYS KNEW THEY CARED *INSERT 200 EXCUSES FOR THE DEVELOPER HERE EXPLAINING WHY IT WAS NEVER THEIR FAULT*"

 

Most of the people doing this shit are the same ones who complain about big corporations ruining the world. All you have to do is convince gullible people that you Really Care, and they'll fellate you. Gamers™️ are terrible when it comes to that. If I steal $60 from you, but give it back at a later date, do I get a blowjob as well? Or will you just settle for $30?

Edited October 2, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[The BMFG]

19 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Now the game is 12% of what we promised it would be. Also, have you watched the anime series yet?"

i swear the cyberpunk anime is like one giant gaslighting campaign, i genuinely cant believe that show made people say that cyberpunk has been "always good". ive been seeing it all over twitter ever since edgerunners released and its fucking crazy.

[mrthejoshmon]

Was he a prophet all along? A prophet of company profit?

 

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

>"We fixed most of the bad glitches in the game, and made some minor adjustments. Now the game is 12% of what we promised it would be. Also, have you watched the anime series yet?"

I'm so glad you brought up Cyberpunk, to see people flushing back to that half developed Insectology course of a game telling me "Oh it's good now" and "Yeah they fixed it all up" despite only minor quality of life fixes (It literally took them until like last month to add transmog, so finally hotpants and a trucker cap isn't the outfit you wear for max stats) and half-hearted attempts at haphazard bugfixes (that break other shit and don't actually address more prevalent issues like, I dunno, decapitated people still speaking to me like some 1990's body horror) with content so threadbare you'd be forgiven for congratulating them on the first digital quantum stabilized atom mirror.

 

Just because the anime was apparently ok, when the fuck is the anime adaptation of Big Rigs gonna come out?

[Chezza]

This Cyberpunk talk reminds me of that No Man's Sky game.

 

Small studio though and after many years I *think* most promises have finally been addressed.

 

The project lead straight out lied to interviewers which is a novice move. Whereas the lies of larger publishers are a bit more subtle, implying or omitting certain details and just let the masses hype it up.

[Caffeine Freak]

I'm sure the Herculean task of fixing Cyberpunk has been made even more complicated by huge numbers of staff quitting over the last two years, including some of their long-time devs. Granted, it's quite clear in retrospect that they didn't know how to properly utilize the sizeable manpower they had in all the years leading up to the game's release, so it's probably a moot point.

 

@ChezzaYeah, I would say the 'No Man's Sky' saga is a good example of how to redeem yourself after failing to deliver. Sean Murray hunkered down, told his subordinates to cut themselves off from the (admittedly well-deserved) backlash online, and went to work delivering the game everyone was promised and then some. *That's* how you do a redemption arc: no whining, no excuses, no lashing out at the media, the fanbase or gamers in general. Just shut up, recognize your mistakes and get to fixing them, no matter how long it takes.

[dasho]

I'm not sure what the confusion is about; even if nobody thinks the items that now require money to download aren't a big deal, or aren't that much money, or "not as bad as other games", they still represent a broken promise. Was this a weird victory lap? Yeah. Was it wrong? No.

[Ozcar]

Well this turned to be out cyberpunk 2077 thread.

[BGreener]

19 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

First they fold over, then they bend over. Some people are so vulnerable to e-Stockholm Syndrome that they become unpaid corporate shills. All the abuser has to do is occasionally do something "nice" for the victim.

With Cyberpunk in particular: I feel that it helps highlight how much people were willing to suffer for their “first person ‘future Witcher’” experience.

 

That makes me extremely wary towards the modern Doom fanbase being similarly weaponized, especially when you consider how little competition the newest Dooms have.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I can't say I quite understand the newfound obsession with everyone having a "redemption arc". Delivering on your promises years after you've tricked people (no matter how gullible) into handing you their money doesn't redeem you of anything in my eyes. If you pay me to fix your roof, and I miss my appointment with you but show up two years later to fix it, how have I redeemed myself? By finally doing what you paid me to do long after I've run off with your money? Doing a job you're paid to do and delivering on things that you yourself promised is not redemption.

 

People aren't cynical enough when it comes to money, that's why they lose it. When CDPR/Sean Murray announces a new game, I'm not going to remember that they "redeemed" themselves, I'm going to remember that they fucked up, that they deceived people, and that they didn't deliver on their promises until years later. And I'm going to look at any future project with the expectation that they'll do it again. They're not my friends, they are people that I'm paying in exchange for a product. I'm not going to kiss their ass and praise them for being late.

 

Not referring to anything Mr. Caffeine Freak said by the way, I'm aware he's just using the term in a general kind of way.

[Caffeine Freak]

Well yeah, it's understandable and pragmatic to still be skeptical of a person/company after they come through with their product, if it's long after they fail to deliver something as they said they would. All I'm really saying is that when you fuck up in a monumental way, the only thing you should focus on doing is making things right without lashing out or shifting blame, which seems to be far beyond the ability of most of the entertainment industry these days.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

4 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Well yeah, it's understandable and pragmatic to still be skeptical of a person/company after they come through with their product, if it's long after they fail to deliver something as they said they would. All I'm really saying is that when you fuck up in a monumental way, the only thing you should focus on doing is making things right without lashing out or shifting blame, which seems to be far beyond the ability of most of the entertainment industry these days.

I apologize, my comment wasn't directed at you in any way, you just brought to mind the whole "redemption arc" thing as well as NMS, so I went on a slightly-related tangent. 

 

The NMS ordeal is, like you said, an example of a developer actually fixing their product and delivering on their promises. I'm not saying that counts for nothing, or that I'm not glad it happened. It shows that the developers were actually capable of delivering what they promised, which is really fucking rare, and it also absolves Sean Murray of being the next Peter Moly-howeverthefuckyouspellit. So it at least builds trust in terms of their talent and dedication.

[Budoka]

On 10/2/2022 at 11:35 PM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Most of the people doing this shit are the same ones who complain about big corporations ruining the world. All you have to do is convince gullible people that you Really Care, and they'll fellate you. Gamers™️ are terrible when it comes to that. If I steal $60 from you, but give it back at a later date, do I get a blowjob as well? Or will you just settle for $30?

Exactly this.

 

I've said so before, but when people get angry at a person or organisation for a certain behavior, then choose to actively re-enable said party later, only to get angry about it all over again, well, I just don't have any sympathy for them at that point. They're throwing themselves into a hell of their own making, and there's no way they'll be able to get out of it until they understand that fundamental truth for what it is.

 

Regarding the paid content in Doom Eternal, I don't interact with it at all. Anything I don't have access to through either the base game or the main DLC, I simply won't use, and that's final. And of course, I avoid games that are already known to do this type of thing to begin with like the plague. I've never bought or even interacted with one, much less knowingly acquired one only to bitch about it later. Those who have, made the choice to do so.

[Mr. Freeze]

AFAIK, the Cyberpunk Redemption Arc comes from people who accepted it as an action game upon release and not an RPG. I'm not saying what's right or wrong here, but that's definitely what I've noticed (I don't know myself, I'm not playing it regardless.) 

 

 

[Lippeth]

The bugs may have saved Cyberpunk 2077 for me because I remember really enjoying all the madness when it came out despite the "hurry up, you're dying" story conflicting with the nature of an open world. But now that the chance of t-posing in the nude while cars fly at me from the heavens is considerably lower, the game seems kind of run-of-the-mill after the initial playthrough. I even tried to watch the first episode of the animated show but it didn't really click. This isn't really anything new but none of these companies are your friends and all brand loyalty seems to do is reward bad behavior.