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Koko Ricky

Is Doom done being serious?

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3 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Bottom line here is we have two camps in this thread, the PSX/Doom 3 horror crowd and the OG Doom I/II PC crowd. I'd say if the horror crowd wants more atmosphere akin to PSX/Doom 3 then they should seek out content along that aspect and/or endeavor to pioneer efforts to create new content that satisfies that itch, because Eternal is going to be more akin to the original vison of OG Doom, which was the Evil Dead homage.

Bite your tongue. You speak for none of us with your nonsense. 

 

EDIT: Also Doom has never been like Resident Evil or Silent Hill EVER. 

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4 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

Doom Eternal is already looking gritty

 

18 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

Dark and gritty will just clash with the over-the-top action of Doom.

Uh

 

Edited by sluggard : bad formatting

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55 minutes ago, sluggard said:

Uh

 

There's a big difference between gritty and "dark and gritty". Duh.

Edit, in case you're not intelligent enough to understand it.

 

Gritty is just a word. "Dark and gritty" is basically code for CoD-ian bullshit.

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I do wonder if a cel-shaded art style, that is still violent and fitting, could work.

Mainly so they could actually make it look like a comic book but also because it could simplify some designs and models, since things are otherwise "overdetailed".

Because there are good designs and art style but at times, a lot of the visual noise is just visual noise.

Said art style may or may not have some potential advantages in the tech/engine side of things too.

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I like the brighter colors and the brighter glowing item pickups that Doom Eternal has. The brighter style reminds me more of Heretic as to me Heretic seems to have more brighter colors in it than (classic) Doom does. The brighter glowing item pickups will be easier for me )and hopefully other people too) to spot so i really like that. I don't think they stick out too much and mess with how the game world looks either. Doom Eternal is a fast paced game. You need to be able to see those items better during fast/intense battles imo.

 

So no, Doom is not "done" being serious. Yes, the original Doom was more serious in tone and at that time is was hailed as a "Virtual 3D" game as the term "First Person Shooter" wasn't even around yet. There was also nothing like it at the time BUT nowadays there are a MILLION FPS games. Doom Eternal has to do something different to stand out among them and it looks like it has.

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1 hour ago, CyberDreams said:

Doom Eternal has to do something different to stand out among them and it looks like it has.

Very true. Honestly, I wish the Doom brand nothing but glory and eternal (heh) success, and it looks like the direction they're taking is the best way to reinvigorate it and keep it alive, rather than if they did exactly what I would've preferred, which I guess would be some sort of unholy mix of Quake 1 and Doom 3, with more open and nonlinear levels and more resource scarcity. I love the new games anyway, regardless of what could've been. Doom evolved in the way that might have been necessary to keep up with the public perception, which has changed significantly since people got actually good at (and used to) FPS games and technology progressed.

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12 hours ago, Antroid said:

When someone calls a shorter post than their own that it's responding to a "wall of text" and runs away, you know they know they've said some dumb shit. Thanks for proving my point for me :D

 

Dude, mine was shorter. I was tired of the back and forth, it became ot. You seem to think i was specifically targeting you and op. Let me make it clear its only the 'durr use your lightsabre 5000 of doom' posts i am talking about, or the ones designed only to trigger ppl more friendly towards the game. I can't stress it enough, you saying 'i wish the tone was darker, look at these old screenshots' theres obviously nothing wrong with that. But freedom of speech doesnt come with something saying ppl wont tear u up if u say something controversial or highly negative and unproductive, or just something they take very personal (Just look at the shitstorm i got)

 

But i already mentioned i wasnt targeting the op kind but the tantrumish trolling ones. Or the ones designed to elicit political rifts etc. constructive criticism with nothing but the goal of discussing the game is why this forum exists. I hope this can end here and i am not misunderstood

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Fair enough. You coupled your talking about them with "you guys" often enough that I thought you were implying the OP and me and others with similar positions also hated the game.

 

Though your post was definitely longer. Just popped it into a goodle doc to compare word count and mine has both fewer words (106 vs 151) and fewer characters (587 vs 871), so there ;) ...Is this the first time someone on the internet argues about whose is shorter?

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8 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Fair enough. You coupled your talking about them with "you guys" often enough that I thought you were implying the OP and me and others with similar positions also hated the game.

 

Though your post was definitely longer. Just popped it into a goodle doc to compare word count and mine has both fewer words (106 vs 151) and fewer characters (587 vs 871), so there ;) ...Is this the first time someone on the internet argues about whose is shorter?

 

Could be lol :) The way it was formatted, mine looked shorter. Good to know. Ok, no heart feelings then. All resooooolved. Good day

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3 minutes ago, Urdak5891 said:

All resooooolved.

I hope you intended for this to be read in Samuel Hayden's voice because I sure as shit did that.

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11 minutes ago, Antroid said:

I hope you intended for this to be read in Samuel Hayden's voice because I sure as shit did that.

Of course :)

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I think the problem is not that DooM Eternal became cartoony or that it's not serious anymore. It's that the game became too much a game. There are too many mechanics, that makes no sense inside the gameworls and only makes sense as pure gameplay mechanics. Chainsaw generating ammo, falmethrower generating armor, punching few demons let's you do a megapunch, Mario-like jumping platforms and rotating flames... none of this can be taken seriously inside the game, only outside of it. And that kills the illusion of serious game with serious world. Also the clichéd story about sentinel super race with kings and knights fighting in a war between hell, heaven and aliens removed the horror element, now it looks like cheap fantasy and that is always harder to take seriously.

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I think it's all about how you play the games that can set the tone, like you can play Classic Doom on PC without the game music and use your own, which depending on whatever you're listening to can set the mood you're in and how you play in that session. 

 

Some people play Doom in a dark room with the lights out and with no one else present for hours at a time, others play in half hour bursts whenever they can get the time. It's all relative.

 

I always saw Doom as a survival horror game as I first played it on PlayStation and then N64, and those versions are slower and have creepier soundtracks, and when I first played on PC it took me a while to get used to the faster pace of the game and the different music.

If I had to choose from either PC Doom or the console editions then I'd choose the PC but the PS & N64 versions will always be special to me.

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:42 PM, Taurus Daggerknight said:

it is hilarious that you're calling out a damn arm blade as being juvenile, when we're talking about a series in which one of the most coveted weapons is literally called THE BIG FUCKING GUN.

 

You mean it's not called the Bio Force Gun? :)

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The more I think about it, the more Eternal seems to celebrate both darker and more campy tones, and it's difficult to imagine a more appropriate approach.

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I think that the problem is mixing the term "cartoony" with "not serious", when they're actually not the referring to the same aspect of a game. The first refers, particularly, to its visual aspect, while the second to the story or the game as a whole. One doesn't necessarily involve the other.

 

Doom, I think, has always had those "not serious" passages or things, but that doesn't mean that the game is a whole joke or, not even, we can deduce from there that the game it's always been cartoony.

 

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49 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

The more I think about it, the more Eternal seems to celebrate both darker and more campy tones, and it's difficult to imagine a more appropriate approach.

This is what I’ve been saying, it seems to be the best of both worlds, tbh.

 

Every trailer and major story element so far has been played very seriously, but there’s still tons of that campiness to be found elsewhere, like the Slayer shooting himself out of a cannon and basically everything in the Fortress of Doom.

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The art style(s) are obviously open to interpretation. I don't see a problem with a story telling device being in equal parts horrific/serious and/or stylish/cartoony as long as it's carried out with conviction. It's one of the reasons one of Doom's main influences - Evil Dead II - works so well. At the age I first saw that movie, it scared me like few horror movies before had, but there were also barrels of laughs along the way, with the over-the-top demonic antics - imbuing the piece with a unique "nervous glee" feel throughout, much like Doom I/II.

 

If you've ever been in the room with Romero playing a deathmatch, you'll now this stuff is right up his ally - he'll laugh his ass off at absurd "funny kill" situations, but all the while be genuinely immersed on a somewhat theatrical fear/anger level. He hates dying, loves impossible violence/odds & was nigh-on unbeatable in the first year or two of LAN deathmatch (Shawn being his main sparring partner). He's in his element when the last thing your bouncing head-gib hears as it's bouncing down the stairs, is his booming laugh disappearing down the corridor towards the nearest cluster-fuck.

 

Citing post-Romero id spindoctoring on how great Doom III is gonna be before release, is miles away from any evidence of how "serious" 1993 Doom was originally meant to be.

 

At any rate, I think Doom Eternal looks well on track to retain much of the style showcased in the original game, which is thankfully a far cry from the slew of realism-tryharding the genre has seen since its inception. Hopefully they'll have better luck expanding on the world's lore than Evil Dead has had - probably easier working with digital characters than live aging actors in that regard...

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Speaking of Doom looking more gamey as a contrast to 7th gen console FPS's, i'd add that one reason why i don't mind the climbing is because it feels more "video gamey" and doesn't feel like it's just there for cinematic set pieces.

I wonder if they'll do that Super Mario World thing where some climbable walls can be flipped/turned 180 degrees by punching, to avoid certain hazards.

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2 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I wonder if they'll do that Super Mario World thing where some climbable walls can be flipped/turned 180 degrees by punching, to avoid certain hazards.

I'm frankly astonished they haven't done the other Super Mario World thing and let you run on walls using a smiling pink slope block :>

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11 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

I think the problem is not that DooM Eternal became cartoony or that it's not serious anymore. It's that the game became too much a game. There are too many mechanics, that makes no sense inside the gameworls and only makes sense as pure gameplay mechanics. Chainsaw generating ammo, falmethrower generating armor, punching few demons let's you do a megapunch, Mario-like jumping platforms and rotating flames... none of this can be taken seriously inside the game, only outside of it. And that kills the illusion of serious game with serious world. Also the clichéd story about sentinel super race with kings and knights fighting in a war between hell, heaven and aliens removed the horror element, now it looks like cheap fantasy and that is always harder to take seriously.

 

They did say they are forcing players into a certain playstyle to eliminate cheesing, even more so than 16 (gauss / double trbl/ lock on rockets spam) Now lets see if it works with the elite twitch shooters, and also .... you have valid concerns, but at the end of the day there will always be people who love (a) and people who love (b). The gameplay concerns are super valid, but the story one ... its just preference. I mean I on the other hand, love the epic heaven / hell story types and hate the doom 3 horror kind

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14 hours ago, Antroid said:

I'm frankly astonished they haven't done the other Super Mario World thing and let you run on walls using a smiling pink slope block :>

 

Maybe we could go Super Mario Galaxy/Gravity Rush territory of walking in walls and ceilings.

I like to imagine one of the final levels being a complete merge of different worlds where there's different bits of everywhere, here and there.

Some non euclidean geometry and floors/platforms in different angles and positions just to make things weirder.

Maybe the skybox ends up being different backgrounds combined with some weird energy lines between/connecting them.

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On 1/31/2020 at 8:37 AM, Urdak5891 said:

The gameplay concerns are super valid, but the story one ... its just preference. I mean I on the other hand, love the epic heaven / hell story types and hate the doom 3 horror kind

It's equally valid. If you read overdone fantasy stories and play fantasy games for 15 years you've read this stuff thousand times already and most likely better written. This time it's only DooM flavoured. Do you remember how refreshing was Doomslayer's attitude toward any story elements in 2016? That's also gone from Eternal and it's replaced by generic fantasy backstory said through cringy cutscenes that expect you to get invested in. That's weak.

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54 minutes ago, NeoWorm said:

It's equally valid. If you read overdone fantasy stories and play fantasy games for 15 years you've read this stuff thousand times already and most likely better written. This time it's only DooM flavoured. Do you remember how refreshing was Doomslayer's attitude toward any story elements in 2016? That's also gone from Eternal and it's replaced by generic fantasy backstory said through cringy cutscenes that expect you to get invested in. That's weak.

 

I like it. I mean i could also say if i played horror games for x years and played doom 3 its the same but doom flavored. In reality, i just don't like horror games that much. I don't find the backstory very generic, seeing as the 'angels' look and act like demons themselves, but that's just me. Anyway, there's only so much you can do originally when there are thousands upon thousands of games out there ( games industry has really become colossal). I don't know exactly what you mean by the doomslayer's attitude, he also has the same attitude here. Stoic, doesn't say a single word, and highly angry with everyone who isn't on his side. Or just highly angry in general

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2 hours ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

I like it. I mean i could also say if i played horror games for x years and played doom 3 its the same but doom flavored. In reality, i just don't like horror games that much. I don't find the backstory very generic, seeing as the 'angels' look and act like demons themselves, but that's just me. Anyway, there's only so much you can do originally when there are thousands upon thousands of games out there ( games industry has really become colossal). I don't know exactly what you mean by the doomslayer's attitude, he also has the same attitude here. Stoic, doesn't say a single word, and highly angry with everyone who isn't on his side. Or just highly angry in general

Well, DooM 3 IS a generic horror game with DooM flavour. It's also absolute slog of a game with ahrdly anything to get out of it. Only thing that kinda catched up from DooM 3 is the Hellknight design.

And even thou DooMslayer seems similarly stoic and angry, the game's attitude toward the story is not even remotely similar. Where 2016 was subtle, Eternal seems to be overt. In 2016 you were in base overriden by demons and you could see that by just looking around. In Eternal you are being told that you are going to Sentinel prime homeworld which is bla bla bla... just to get the faintest idea what's happening. You know all the "show, don't tell". It's like the differnce between a story that a 15 year old edgelord would like to write but lacks the finesse to do so and a story that he actually writes. And that is why people have problem to take DooM Eternal seriously. It's mix of all the things that were so subtly changed untill the whole game feels completely different and somewhat wrong.

EDIT: A difference between camp and schlock.

Edited by NeoWorm

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11 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

Do you remember how refreshing was Doomslayer's attitude toward any story elements in 2016? That's also gone from Eternal and it's replaced by generic fantasy backstory said through cringy cutscenes that expect you to get invested in. That's weak.

Again. Who the hell is giving away advance copies of Doom Eternal for us to know how the overall presentation of the narrative is going to be?? 

 

We get it Doom Eternal is just objectively bad having finished it...

 

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@jazzmaster9 A lot of people have already been allowed to play through the game up to a certain point. I know as a fact that you can skip 100% of the game's story content. And from what I can gather, the storyline looks really fucking good. 

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4 hours ago, Ajora said:

@jazzmaster9 A lot of people have already been allowed to play through the game up to a certain point. I know as a fact that you can skip 100% of the game's story content. And from what I can gather, the storyline looks really fucking good. 

But what i mean is only a certain amount of in game footage is  available to the general public so its a lot of jumping to conclusions at this point 

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