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GoatLord

Is Doom done being serious?

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1 hour ago, BBQgiraffe said:

flossing itself or the gif? because if you want I´ll film myself flossing and replace it

The boomer/zoomer meme in general.

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3 hours ago, GoatLord said:

Ok, once again, I'm stoked for Eternal, I dig the art style and I'm fine with the more over-the-top approach. How is that trolly?

 I apologise, I got the opposite feeling in your post :)

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Doom has never been serious. Not even Doom 3.

its stylish , it’s too cool for school but it’s always had its tongue firmly planted in its cheek.

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I feel kind of silly posting this now, because at the time I was reflecting on the more over-the-top stuff that made its way into the new game, but forgetting that the demos have all shown some fairly horrific moments. I think more than anything this is something of a yearning for an approach that was used a couple of times (PSX/N64/D3 era), but is not necessarily the face of the franchise, tonally. And nor does it have to be. But I do have this idealization in my mind's eye, I suppose something that echoes that original 1979 Alien, as it captured H. R. Giger's style so well. But as has been mentioned, it could be tiring and the less subtle approach is better for replay value.

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I hope its not. Doom was always a serious game for me. While I'll still probably buy and play Doom Eternal, I would much prefer a darker, heavier, and more oppressive atmosphere and tone than some of the cartoony goofiness we're seeing in some of the gameplay videos now. 

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28 minutes ago, doom_is_great said:

Doom was always a serious game for me.

You have indirectly answered the problem with this thread: Doom is serious for you. That doesn't mean that it is or was intended to be.

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I think there was always a semi-serious intent from the developers, especially since no other shooter in 1993 went f or the psuedo-realistic look of Doom. Watch any YouTube comp of FPS from that era and they're all much more stylized and bright like Wolf. I see a lot OG Doom's style in Eternal, but "epic" comes to mind more than "horror" or "desolation." Doom has rarely been epic...but it does work here.

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Well, watching the latest gameplay videos I' m sure I still will enjoy the gameplay of Doom Eternal. I' m annoyed by the goofiness introduced, and I miss the darker tone, but I also see some really cool art there as well. Maybe I can enjoy it better if I take it as a mix between Darksiders and Serious Sam that happens to take place in the Doom uinverse... I like Serious Sam and I also enjoy Darksiders (currently playing part III), so Darksiders Sam with some Doom influence might be fun.

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On 1/27/2020 at 3:23 PM, Linguica said:

I'm fine with Doom going cartoonier. They have been pretty explicit that the Doom comic was a touchstone for the internal revolt at id, when they got sick of a flavorless Call of Doom and wanted to make something more like the rip and tear memes instead. If they want to go dark and moody they have the Quake franchise they're not doing much with...

 

That makes a lot of sense, i knew it without really knowing it. Doom 2016 and specially Eternal feel like a blend of Brutal Doom with the Doom comic book.
I am not saying it as a good thing. They have went too far in a specific extreme, too over the top, the tone of the franchise now is like a teenager power fantasy.

 

The perfectr tone would be something in the middle of Doom 3 and Doom 2016. Doom always had a tongue in cheek tone yet it was not leaning towards a comedic feel. I feel like they the devs are trying to please everybody at the same time.

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Idk I always saw Doom as an exaggerated action comic-style with horror elements kinda game. A mixture of seriousness and silliness, both elements contrast each other like how ancient Biblical demons contrast with a hyper technical sci-fi world.

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9 minutes ago, DepravedDiptera said:

Idk I always saw Doom as an exaggerated action comic-style with horror elements kinda game. A mixture of seriousness and silliness, both elements contrast each other like how ancient Biblical demons contrast with a hyper technical sci-fi world.


I completely agree, and i get 100% what they are trying to do with the "new Doom franchise", they are trying to make it look, sound and play like ultra violent colorful comic book, but i felt that in Doom 2016 (and Eternal, from what i have seen so far) they completely skipped the horror part.
Hell was so bland and boring, the mutilated bodies on the base felt like an after thought, the demonic symbols and imagery were completely missing, there was no suspensful moments with creepy ambience, it was all very straight forward braindead spectacle.

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The most general take i can give is a good balance between action and horror or dark comedy and some seriousness.

And also sci-fi and fantasy/supernatural with religious/mythical/etc stuff on top.

Besides the tone and mood, the new lore also technically changes the setting with the explanations behind stuff and new worlds, and that has some ups and downs, depending on how you view it.

 

I think a problem with whether or not something is meant to be sincere is how the audience sees it.

Some people make a bigger deal out of something basic or can't understand something that is meant to be deeper.

Some think that anything that isn't realistic can't be taken seriously, even though there's media that can be serious and even cause emotional impact, while taking place on fictional settings.

It can also go other ways around.

This topic can be more relevant with the concept of storytelling in videogames and the idea of games being like movies.

Some things can be both funny, serious and even sad, it depends on how you execute those paths and organize them.

 

Looking at that concept art, this can be said about any concept/cut stuff in Doom or any other game, but there's always going to be something that feels like it should appear in a game.

 

2 minutes ago, D88M3R said:


I completely agree, and i get 100% what they are trying to do with the "new Doom franchise", they are trying to make it look, sound and play like ultra violent colorful comic book, but i felt that in Doom 2016 (and Eternal, from what i have seen so far) they completely skipped the horror part.
Hell was so bland and boring, the mutilated bodies on the base felt like an after thought, the demonic symbols and imagery were completely missing, there was no suspensful moments with creepy ambience, it was all very straight forward braindead spectacle.

 

It also doesn't help that Hell in 1/2 felt like a combo of different elements and ideas, that can work with diverse and abstract levels.

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I would love to see the cancelled Doom 4 get revisited.  Maybe not as a part of the Doom framchise, but ad a stand alone game.  I think that the atmosphere we got to see made for a promising survival horror game.  All I would ask is that NPCs be kept to a bare minimim.

 

As far as a return to the overtly gothic atmosphere and overall mood of Doom64 and Doom³ goes, I wouldn't be opposed to those elements being present alongside the run'n'gun style we've seen in the classics, Doom 2016, and the gameplays for Eternal.

 

And as a pipedream...an Aubrey Hodges and Mick Gordon collaborative effort for a soundtrack.

 

Final thought...I would love it if the enemies didn't gib every time they are killed.

Edited by Rare Hatchiama

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A dark and gritty Doom would make no sense. Dark and gritty will just clash with the over-the-top action of Doom.

 

Best to fridge all that darkness until they revive Quake 1's atmosphere.

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6 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You have indirectly answered the problem with this thread: Doom is serious for you. That doesn't mean that it is or was intended to be.

 

Except one of the id devs (cannot remember exactly who) said that if they had the technology back in the early 90s, Doom 3 would have essentially been the game they would have created. So YES, Doom was intended to be a serious game. 

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1 hour ago, doom_is_great said:

 

Except one of the id devs (cannot remember exactly who) said that if they had the technology back in the early 90s, Doom 3 would have essentially been the game they would have created. So YES, Doom was intended to be a serious game. 

You need to present evidence to support your claim. (Also if Doom3 is serious is in itself a different question.)

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1 hour ago, doom_is_great said:

 

Except one of the id devs (cannot remember exactly who) said that if they had the technology back in the early 90s, Doom 3 would have essentially been the game they would have created. So YES, Doom was intended to be a serious game. 

 

Big if true. I would also like to know for certain, because I would latch onto it HARD.

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3 hours ago, doom_is_great said:

 

Except one of the id devs (cannot remember exactly who) said that if they had the technology back in the early 90s, Doom 3 would have essentially been the game they would have created. So YES, Doom was intended to be a serious game. 

Tell that to Romero or Carmack who wanted balls to the walls action

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For what it's worth, they did specifically add the distance darkening for the atmosphere and spookiness, and they got rid of the old arcadey life and score systems from Wolf3D. That last thing in particular is kind of awkward for Eternal to go back on, for me at least. Though I don't mind it because serious sam 2 made me used to the idea of lives in FPS games used in that way.

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2 hours ago, Antroid said:

 

Big if true. I would also like to know for certain, because I would latch onto it HARD.

 

Your proof will be around the 6 to 7 min mark. You're welcome. ;)

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Why do people act like a gritty and atmospheric take on Doom is going to be a bad thing? It's not like it's going to end up feeling like Doom 3 (not saying it's a bad game, but you know..) or a depressed teenager diary level of seriousness, just something that knows how to not reach comedic levels of ridiculousness. I personally would love to see a take on Doom like that, plenty of games out there that managed to be both somewhat serious and still fun to play, but It's probably too late to change that at this point. Still there's always a chance to give it another fair shake in the future (maybe as a spin-off?)

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I'd love a more atmospheric take on a modern Doom game, a la Doom 64, but with Eternal it's clear where the game is heading.

 

Besides, Doom was never serious. The tone of the original games was self-aware, and only after PSX Doom it got darker, but even then, it was never dead serious. A game striking the balance between both would be welcome, but I'm not losing sleep over it. I have PSX Doom and Doom 64 for my dose of groovy darkness.

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Doom Eternal is already looking gritty and atmospheric.

 

I don't know what you zoomer-babies have been doing for videogame-education, but a colourful game doesn't exclude grit and atmosphere. Just look at.... you know. Doom and Doom II.

 

This is dumb as shit ya'all.

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12 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

Doom Eternal is already looking gritty and atmospheric.

 

I don't know what you zoomer-babies have been doing for videogame-education, but a colourful game doesn't exclude grit and atmosphere. Just look at.... you know. Doom and Doom II.

 

This is dumb as shit ya'all.

 

As much as I'm looking forward to Eternal, I have to disagree with your premise. While I'll grant that the mere presence of color doesn't mean something can't be heavy, Eternal is absolutely not the definition of heavy and serious (for me, at least). 

 

Fact is, the devs are specifically making Eternal to be an over the top comic book of ridiculously epic space marine bullshit  stuff turned up to eleven. It is most certainly far more Metalocalypse than it is The Crow, which is really the dividing line that people are pointing out. Yeah, sure, they're both worlds that are a bit out there, but one is playing up the silly and cheeky bits, while the other is honestly selling its world and story with some amount of seriousness. 

 

If nothing else, can we agree that Doom 64 and Doom 3 both took their worlds more 'seriously' than Eternal does? For better or worse really; Doom 3 had an amazing atmosphere, but IMO terrible game play, where as 2016 had amazing game play and not as much atmosphere, which is where Eternal seems to be heading. Mind, I'm not talking about having amazing environments or art, which Eternal has in bloody spades from what we've seen. It is, however, the difference between the game trying to instill a feeling of fear and horror vs. THE POWER OF METAL. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

As much as I'm looking forward to Eternal, I have to disagree with your premise. While I'll grant that the mere presence of color doesn't mean something can't be heavy, Eternal is absolutely not the definition of heavy and serious (for me, at least). 

 

Fact is, the devs are specifically making Eternal to be an over the top comic book of ridiculously epic space marine bullshit  stuff turned up to eleven. It is most certainly far more Metalocalypse than it is The Crow, which is really the dividing line that people are pointing out. Yeah, sure, they're both worlds that are a bit out there, but one is playing up the silly and cheeky bits, while the other is honestly selling its world and story with some amount of seriousness. 

 

If nothing else, can we agree that Doom 64 and Doom 3 both took their worlds more 'seriously' than Eternal does? For better or worse really; Doom 3 had an amazing atmosphere, but IMO terrible game play, where as 2016 had amazing game play and not as much atmosphere, which is where Eternal seems to be heading. Mind, I'm not talking about having amazing environments or art, which Eternal has in bloody spades from what we've seen. It is, however, the difference between the game trying to instill a feeling of fear and horror vs. THE POWER OF METAL. 

 

Can anyone really take the way that Duum Slaya Memelord 5000 is dressed as something to be fearful of? No. In fact, the ridiculous gauntlets, the arm blade, and the side-mounted flamethrower this character has all spells out "juvenile brutality" just by the "aura" it gives.  Need more proof? Well, look back at the press releases earlier this week. The Doom Marine has something called "The Fortress of Doom" and in that has a prison dubbed "The Ripatorium?" Does that scream "serious" to anyone?

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20 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

 

 

Fact is, the devs are specifically making Eternal to be an over the top comic book of ridiculously epic space marine bullshit  stuff turned up to eleven.

 

 

No, it is not.

 

THere are angels that look like demons, actual demons, HELL PRIESTS, and HALF or more of earth is invaded and mutilated / exterminated / annihilated by them .... and the basic story and characters are the same. What changed is the origins of the slayer and the universe's lore has expanded. We now have more backstory than before. The doomguy has always been incredibly powerful, you know slaughtering demon LEGIONS .... alone.

 

What exactly do you mean by serious though? What do you guys want? or rather, not want / hate?

 

What's the issue really? What is bothering you? The colors? We had that in doom and doom 2 ... a LOT. They are very necessary here due to the aggressive playstyle, as visual cues.

 

So what makes it 'nonserious', 'cartoony' or even 'over the top comic book like' exactly? Just because of some daisy easter eggs and cutesy collectibles?

 

I agree with him, most if not all of the complaints so far have been babyish and dumb as fek. And as I always said, if you hate something, just move on. THere are other things waiting out there to make your heart content.

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Bottom line here is we have two camps in this thread, the PSX/Doom 3 horror crowd and the OG Doom I/II PC crowd. I'd say if the horror crowd wants more atmosphere akin to PSX/Doom 3 then they should seek out content along that aspect and/or endeavor to pioneer efforts to create new content that satisfies that itch, because Eternal is going to be more akin to the original vison of OG Doom, which was the Evil Dead homage.

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8 minutes ago, Urdak5891 said:

 

I agree with him, most if not all of the complaints so far have been babyish and dumb as fek.

 

Oh certainly many have. Again, I'm not even complaining about it though. This is the one game this year I'm far beyond psyched for. Just saying its not something I'd take as seriously or with as much tension as say, FEAR (1) or Half-Life. Again; other games play the tone more, and I don't think that's an unfair statement to make all things considered. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Can anyone really take the way that Duum Slaya Memelord 5000 is dressed as something to be fearful of? No. In fact, the ridiculous gauntlets, the arm blade, and the side-mounted flamethrower this character has all spells out "juvenile brutality" just by the "aura" it gives.  Need more proof? Well, look back at the press releases earlier this week. The Doom Marine has something called "The Fortress of Doom" and in that has a prison dubbed "The Ripatorium?" Does that scream "serious" to anyone?

 

[Redacted for being a bit on the vitriolic side, and thus unbecoming. If read ahead of the edit, I apologize. I clearly need more coffee this 'morn]

 

Your whole "juvenile brutality" point is kind of moot, considering that describes the attitude of literally every shooter from the 90's, from Doom to the release of Unreal and Half-Life (which are some of the only FPS titles from that time that  I can recall were NOT all about buff troopers with guns"). 

 

Also, it is hilarious that you're calling out a damn arm blade as being juvenile, when we're talking about a series in which one of the most coveted weapons is literally called THE BIG FUCKING GUN.

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