Is Doomguy the Doomslayer?

[Hydroact]

Didn't he stop fighting at the end of D2? Plus the Doomguy is human and the Doomslayer is eons old. The doomslayer is ancient and the doomguy is just a hella strong marine

What's going on?

Especially with D64?

In my opinion, there should be 3 universes. I have no idea where D64 fits into it

Doom 1 and Doom 2. Done (doomguy)

Doom 3 and all those DLCs (and the movie?)

Doom 2016 and Eternal (the slayer)

[Urdak5891]

Maybe. He could be the same guy from all the games, the codex in 16 says 'in his terrible rancor between worlds and through time' so maybe. Some people are already acting as if it is official, maybe they know something we don't

[Ramiel]

The current theory is that D64 is a continuation of D2, and he chooses to stay in hell at the end of D64.

 

He does his business fighting demons for god knows how long (the testaments note that he battles demons “between worlds and through time”) until he happens upon the Night Sentinels, etc. etc.

 

Long and short is that Doom 4 and Eternal take place in an alternate universe Earth/Mars, but it’s the same guy.

[oCrapaCreeper]

We won’t know for sure until the game comes out, they have said the answer will be revealed though. Hugo Martin seems excited for us to learn it on our own, and he tends to refer to the Slayer as Doomguy anyway.

 

With the way things have been presented so far, it's very likely it could be the same guy at this point. I mean, just look at at the damn face behind the visor in Eternal. He also happens to have had a rabbit named Daisy, complete with her cage and foot. He has no history that rules it out completely either thanks to his ability to travel through time and dimensions in a way not even understood by the demons. Add some theorycrafting, and it seems completely plausible he just decided to stay in hell (Doom 64) and took his anger out on every demon in every world/timeline he went to, and grew stronger and stronger until he became an icon of demon slaying.

 

It's important though to note that the original lore in 2016 was made literally made last minute and wasn’t future proofed very well and left ambiguous in some ways (probably so they can retcon if needed), so trying to piece it all together before Eternal comes out (where this stuff is obviously fleshed out) is difficult to say the least. For all we know, he was never meant to be the original marine but they went along with it because that's what the fans think and it'd be rather anticlimactic if it was otherwise. Furthermore, there's also the fan service aspect. Things like the Daisy cage in the Fortress of Doom could just be an easter egg after all. Not saying that's all it is, but references aren't always a confirmation for something in story telling.

 

Also...

Spoiler

 

If anything else, this drawing from the DE art preview would at least have to suggest the original marine exists/existed in some way in the story if he's not the slayer.  I mean, that's just blatantly the original armor stylized as some ancient drawing or emblem...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by oCrapaCreeper

[Urdak5891]

Fwiw I really don't like the idea myself, but what's more important is that the story turns out to be really, really interesting with what they set up in d16 because I am smelling something basic like 'fallen angel gives corrupt argent energy source out to draw out hellish invasions to cleanse other advanced civilizations' and secondary characters like wretch and hooded figure dude get little to no thought put into them other than a name and one or 2 vague codex entries.

 

I remember this happened with d3, i spent years theorycrafting storywise after d2 lod with all they had available and built up and they came up with a totally butchered nonsense story. 

 

Fingers crossed. Then again, some people are alien to any sort of story in doom, so I'll take anything as a bonus

[deepthaw]

I think id just had fun writing a crazy story for him (they admitted the story fell into place very late in development) and may not have expected to have to flesh it out in a sequel. 

[Linguica]

A better question: was Ivan the Space Biker a night sentinel?

 

[Loud Silence]

Is Terminator - Arnold Schwarzenegger, Robert Patrick, Kristanna Loken, Sam Worthington or Gabriel Luna?

[Szuran]

I like the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW. Secrets are sometimes good. The fact this may be the OG marine or not makes it feel mystic and intriguing. I hope they don't make it clear, ever.

 

Just like I didn't want to learn that these super weird fossilized aliens were just beefed up bald dudes in suits.

[Zemini]

My theory.

 

Doom 3 happens and gets covered up.  UAC has been operating on their new base all this time.  Doom Marine gets promoted.

Doom 2016 Happens

UAC Sends Doom Marine who becomes the Doomguy to Phobos (Classic Doom Starts)

Knee-Deep in the Dead (DLC1?)

Shores of Hell (DLC2?)

~Meanwhile~

Doom Eternal Storyline:  Anything could happen here that completely contradicts my theory.

Doomguy travels to Hell (Inferno)

Doomguy returns to clean up Earth (Hell on Earth)

Doomguy returns to the Martian base to mop up (Doom 64) and remains in Hell.

During this time in Hell he may travel into the past or another dimension where he meets the Night Sentinels where he leads them and eventually becomes the DoomSlayer.  Army of Darkness...

Eternal Paradox repeats itself.

[P41R47]

i always read ''between worlds and through time'' as ''after bazillion megawads made by the community''. That way, in Doom 2016, Bethesda tryed to made ''canon'' every damm fan made wad and game ever made. But yes, the general consensus is: UD, D2, FD, D64, MEGAWADS FROM EVERY WORLD, D3 is the James Cameron movie about UD, MORE MEGAWADS FROM EVERY WORLD, and then D2016.
And we got the oportunity to know the events of D2016 thanks to Bethesda, who traveled to the endless future and brought us back the story of a player Doomed to fight the hordes of hell... Eternally.  

[Skullhacker]

3 hours ago, Ramiel said:

The current theory is that D64 is a continuation of D2, and he chooses to stay in hell at the end of D64.

My theory is that after D64, Doomguy joined the night sentinels, and the demons preserved him in stone because they weren't able to kill him.

[P41R47]

24 minutes ago, Skullhacker said:

My theory is that after D64, Doomguy joined the night sentinels, and the demons preserved him in stone because they weren't able to kill him.

the community needs to make some megawads as bridge to Doom 2016, like this one you mention. It would be interesting to see something about Doomguy joining the Night Sentinels campaing in a GZDoom mod.

[cybdmn]

3 hours ago, Hydroact said:

Didn't he stop fighting at the end of D2? Plus the Doomguy is human and the Doomslayer is eons old. The doomslayer is ancient and the doomguy is just a hella strong marine

What's going on?

Especially with D64?

In my opinion, there should be 3 universes. I have no idea where D64 fits into it

Doom 1 and Doom 2. Done (doomguy)

Doom 3 and all those DLCs (and the movie?)

Doom 2016 and Eternal (the slayer)

 

Doom in the 90ies: Tom Hall was out, and everybody else at id don't give a shit about a story, etc. So it's just Doomguy.

Doom in the 2000s: The fun was long gone from id, the new engine couldn't render as much enemies as the old Doom engine, so Doom3 was a much slower game, with a story, many cutscenes as in every other AAA-FPS at that time, and that boring space marine straight out of a mens health magazine.

Doom in the 2010s: Doom have to be over the top in every way possible, to attract the younger audience. They think Brutal Doom is Doom like it was meant to be, so the newer Doom games have to be as brooooooodal as possible. And a simple Doomguy won't fit in there. It has to be a godlike bonecrushing Slaughtermachine, up to the point where the whole thing is a more like a caricature.

[Skullhacker]

2 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

the community needs to make some megawads as bridge to Doom 2016, like this one you mention. It would be interesting to see something about Doomguy joining the Night Sentinels campaing in a GZDoom mod.

That's actually a really cool concept!

[Linguica]

Didn't Doom Zero end up being a sort of Doom 2016 prologue?

[whatup876]

I thought Doom 64 Retribution was supposed to have an extra episode like that and Gerardo194's 64 monster sprites were related to it (he even made a titan), unless my memory is playing tricks to me.

GMOTA has a Doomslayer that sort of represents a Doomguy that just joined the NS.

[Redneckerz]

Doomguy is actually Duke Nukem.

 

Just look at it.

 

The signs could not be more clear.

 

The ultimate 3D Realms redemption arc.

[P41R47]

17 minutes ago, Linguica said:

Didn't Doom Zero end up being a sort of Doom 2016 prologue?

Badministrator! BAD!!!
You spoiled it!

[Murdoch]

4 hours ago, Zemini said:

UAC Sends Doom Marine who becomes the Doomguy to Phobos (Classic Doom Starts)

 

Nope. Not unless they are retconning. In the original story, you are a simple marine sent to Phobos for beating the shit out your CO for demanding you fire on civilians if my memory serves me correctly. There is no way the same Doom guy who stepped through that door to the Phobos Hangar so long ago had ever set foot on Mars at the point if one follows the lore (such as it is) strictly.

 

The multiple universes interpretation is far more probable based on the evidence. Likely time works differently in Hell, and so he has aged relatively little though eons may have passed since the events of Doom 64 and Doom 2016.

 

Doom 3 I suspect is a distinct story, with the nods to it in Doom 2016 being mere easter eggs/sources of inspiration as opposed to direct references. It is clear in the opening level that you are indeed just some random, initially unremarkable marine assigned to Mars, not the roid rage avatar of hatred of all things demonic that you are in Doom 2016. Also things like the Cyberdemon only being killable with the soul cube don't gel with Doom 2016.

[Antroid]

I will be very happy if (when?) they confirm that the Doom Slayer is what Doomguy became after Doom 1-2-64 and then being stuck in hell for millenia or something and now it's a different universe or timeline or whatever. That actually makes Doom Slayer an interesting protagonist for me and not just a boring "roid rage beast", because you know he started off humble, as a regular, if admirably resilient, human being, who went through literall hell several times and became more than human through such an experience that no human was meant to have. And then someone crafted him a magic armor and made him immortal or some shit.

 

I recall in the last trailer's thread someone proposed an idea that Doom 3 could theoretically be connected to Doom 2016. It would have to be a different character, just a random marine, and the events could precede Doom 2016's and be covered up by the UAC. Shit, it could be the way the UAC discovers Hell but doesn't have Hell take it by surprise, instead managing to harness its energy. I'd be very up for that too.

 

If they don't completely disprove that in Doom Eternal, I'm sticking with it as my headcanon.

[rustygizzard]

4 hours ago, cybdmn said:

Doom in the 2010s: Doom have to be over the top in every way possible, to attract the younger audience. They think Brutal Doom is Doom like it was meant to be, so the newer Doom games have to be as brooooooodal as possible. And a simple Doomguy won't fit in there. It has to be a godlike bonecrushing Slaughtermachine, up to the point where the whole thing is a more like a caricature.

i mean the new doom series is more than just mindless violence like brutal doom is, there's more layers to it but if you wanna just look at the surface and see the glory kill system and the over the top violence (like classic doom didn't have over the top violence lol) then you can go ahead and do that. :)

[Antroid]

If the Doom Slayer is in fact Doomguy after going through the original Dooms and then fighting in Hell for a long time, his progression mirrors the progression of many Doom fans in a way that's really cool to me.

 

The originals might have started off scary and tense if you got into it when Doom was new, you were bad at FPS games, maybe played with a bad control scheme, barely remembered to strafe, etc. There's no denying that back in the early days people found Doom scary. Then many kept playing, got better, in fact got so good that the originals are laughable now in terms of difficulty, and people have played through countless custom levels, many far more brutal than the original games. The scare factor is long gone and now you just wanna blast some demons.

 

If Doomguy went through similar ordeals in-universe, his attitude in 2016 makes total sense and makes him one of my favorite game protagonists ever solely for the context and connection to the history of the game series IRL. It also makes the ending of Doom 64 freaking genius since it allows for this in the first place. This is why I really hope they confirm it's the same dude.

[TheRedTide]

He's actually Solid Snake.

[Antroid]

1 minute ago, TheRedTide said:

He's actually Solid Snake.

I'll take it because it means he's already in Smash.

[Gez]

6 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Nope. Not unless they are retconning. In the original story, you are a simple marine sent to Phobos for beating the shit out your CO for demanding you fire on civilians if my memory serves me correctly. There is no way the same Doom guy who stepped through that door to the Phobos Hangar so long ago had ever set foot on Mars at the point if one follows the lore (such as it is) strictly.

He was actually stationed on Mars as punishment, and went to Phobos with his squad when shit happened and Deimos vanished. He stayed behind to guard the ship until all his buddies were dead, and then the game starts.

http://www.classicdoom.com/doomtext.htm

 

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

He was actually stationed on Mars as punishment, and went to Phobos with his squad when shit happened and Deimos vanished. He stayed behind to guard the ship until all his buddies were dead, and then the game starts.

http://www.classicdoom.com/doomtext.htm

 

 

Ah yes, I stand corrected. Apologies. Still, doom 3 does not logically flow to doom due to the key cyberdemon difference and the lack of any hint of problems on Mars in the original story. There were no teleportation experiments there.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Murdoch

[Gerardo194]

19 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I thought Doom 64 Retribution was supposed to have an extra episode like that and Gerardo194's 64 monster sprites were related to it (he even made a titan), unless my memory is playing tricks to me.

GMOTA has a Doomslayer that sort of represents a Doomguy that just joined the NS.

Yes, Doom 64 Retribution is supposed to have an episode where you became the Doom Slayer... I told @Nevander I would make the story for it! 

Yes, Cyber Titan is for both Doom 64 Retribution and Doom 64 DZDoom/Sequel by GEC. So far, Nevander hasn't shown any new maps (maybe he needs help from other guys)

And GEC (my brothers) are very busy with another project (not a secret project)... The missing Doom 64 monsters are done but we haven't pull the sprites out yet. Who knows if we are going to need help from other users here...

For the Retribution's story... I only needed an answer from Doom Eternal: The Betrayer. Many have said the wretched Betrayer was a demon or something else but I always thought he was a former Night Sentinel. Not just that, I imagined the Betrayer based on Betruger's face with his blind eye and a scar... You guys can call me crazy or something, I am not taking this design after Doom Eternal... I saw it in my mind much before Doom Eternal was announced

Edited January 30, 2020 by Gerardo194

[doomsucksass]

DLCs, lol i don't think they were called that then

[Linguica]

4 minutes ago, doomsucksass said:

DLCs, lol i don't think they were called that then

 

Episode 4: Thy Flesh Consumed was quite literally DLC although obviously not called as such (all existing owners could download a patch to get it for free).