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Morpheus666

Should there be another game after Eternal?

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5 minutes ago, igg said:

Depends on Eternals success. And of course also whether id Software is going to finish the story or not. Maybe we'll meet the real villain after the final boss fight? Maybe you kill Hayden and his last words are "I told you I'm not the villain of this story"? 

Hayden's role in the story is the thing I want to know the most about. He was the most interesting character in 2016. 

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i'm actually surprised by how far this conversation has actually gone on for! Didn't really think many people on the Doom world forum were this interested in the future of the Doom reboot.

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If Id makes a sequel then it will be on next gen consoles and I'd be interested to see how the new tech can drive enhancements to the gameplay. I think someone at Id did mention in an interview that real time ray tracing had scope beyond just being a lighting tool (though I may be confusing this statement with another interview). There are problems that better tech can potentially solve, for example the disappearing corpses problem. I'd also love to see more physics incorporated into the destructible demons model - I was watching the 15 min gameplay videos again (for the umpteenth time) and was thinking, wouldn't it be great if the cacodemon was more squishy i.e. when you kill a caco, it falls to the floor and goes SPLAT instead of the discrete, solid chunks we see rolling around. Would love to see a sequel on next gen!

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The disappearing corpses is a problem that cannot be solved since it's impossible, literally against the laws of physics. You can mitigate it by adding more RAM and allowing the player to customize the game to take advantage of that, but it's not a problem that can solved.

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58 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

The disappearing corpses is a problem that cannot be solved since it's impossible, literally against the laws of physics. You can mitigate it by adding more RAM and allowing the player to customize the game to take advantage of that, but it's not a problem that can solved.

I think the disappearing corpses thing could be easily solved instead by using a limited amout od corpses instead. Like, when the amount goes over the limit the oldest one disappears. This would also mean you could change the limit in the options.

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On 2/1/2020 at 3:49 AM, igg said:

I don't think id Software is ever going to work again with NIN, especially after their experience with Trent during Doom 3s development. 

 

NIN has a very bad reputation for reliability. At a festival in Interlaken they ran off the stage at the first drop of rain, left their equipment on stage and then complained that 1 hour later the staff of a follow-up band had allegedly damaged things on their guitars that were still lying around. Pussies.

Trent Reznor has been composing film scores without incident for a decade now. 

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I'd love to see a single player Quake remake next.

 

My only worry is what could it do to set it apart from NuDoom, other than being all purple and Lovecraftian? What's the "modern" take on Quake, and how does it differ from the modern take on Doom?

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:28 PM, Super Mighty G said:

Hayden's role in the story is the thing I want to know the most about. He was the most interesting character in 2016. 

 

I hope he's important and doesn't get pushed aside in favor of the Maykrs. Would love to see him usurp the throne of heaven or hell or something and make himself the final boss.

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1 minute ago, deepthaw said:

I'd love to see a single player Quake remake next.

 

My only worry is what could it do to set it apart from NuDoom, other than being all purple and Lovecraftian? What's the "modern" take on Quake, and how does it differ from the modern take on Doom?

Quake was definitely in the spirit of the project they had in mind for Doom 3 and on (a person wonders why they didn't use Quake). Probably because the original id team wasn't working on Doom 3/new Quake.

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Imo, the ideal Quake reboot would be a game that, while retaining the fast action gameplay that current id is known for, focuses more on the horror aspect and is a little less tongue in cheek and over the top.

I remember in a post-release panel in 2016 or so, some of the devs were talking about how early on with 2016, they had struggled to find the right balance with the gore between being cartoony and ridiculous, and genuinely gross/disturbing.
A good direction for Quake would be to bank on that instead. Make the visuals disturbing, the gore disgusting, and strip away the player's power fantasy.

Create fear through sound design, as well as sheer intimidation. Overpowering enemies in overbearing numbers, with intelligent AI to boot.

Basically, go for a more abstract kind of fear. Because Quake should never be slow and tedious either, with jumpscares and etc.

You can create an even better sense of horror through the action, and keep it fun to play like the current Doom games.

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47 minutes ago, Asking4Id said:

Quake was definitely in the spirit of the project they had in mind for Doom 3 and on (a person wonders why they didn't use Quake). Probably because the original id team wasn't working on Doom 3/new Quake.

 

I kind of wondered about this myself. There is a lot in Doom 3 that, while certainly keeping with "Doom's" world, evokes Quake. The monster designs (Imp, Hell Knight, Tick, Trite, even the mancubus in some ways) are all far less typical "Demon of Hell", more "eldritch terror". On top of that, the slow pace is something I honestly thought Quake 1 really needed to make it feel more... I don't know, coherent? I know a lot of people will jump on me for saying this, but I personally dislike how Quake 1 is all about blazing speed, because it really, really destroys the efforts of the ambiance and soundtrack. 

 

Which brings up the odd issue with a Quake 1 reboot really... what the heck would that even look like? Would it be a "slower-than-NuDoom" pace that's all about atmospheric dread and survival, or would it be  a game about a superhero punching Cthullu's friends in a plotless game ala the original Quake? If the latter, then we're basically saying "it's NuDoom". If the former, then I can only imagine a lot of Quake die-hards will call foul the way some of the Doom community did at the dawn of Doom 3. 

 

I almost wonder if this isn't one of the main reasons why iD and Raven chose to lean more heavily on the Quake 2 world, where it was just easier to balance the atmosphere and game play in away that didn't seem contradictory. 

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10 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

On top of that, the slow pace is something I honestly thought Quake 1 really needed to make it feel more... I don't know, coherent? I know a lot of people will jump on me for saying this, but I personally dislike how Quake 1 is all about blazing speed, because it really, really destroys the efforts of the ambiance and soundtrack. 

 

Which brings up the odd issue with a Quake 1 reboot really... what the heck would that even look like? Would it be a "slower-than-NuDoom" pace that's all about atmospheric dread and survival, or would it be  a game about a superhero punching Cthullu's friends in a plotless game ala the original Quake?

I don't think you really understand/understood the original Quake. It was raw. It was hilariously violent. It was serious. It celebrated strong weaponry. The weapons felt like construction machinery hammering on the mysterious force of evil.

 

Although Doom had the more interesting setting, Quake was much more immersive and the weapons were much more fun. A medieval looking rocket launcher causing enemies to explode, a nail gun which hammered both the player and it's opponent.

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On 2/3/2020 at 6:20 AM, flouter said:

I think the disappearing corpses thing could be easily solved instead by using a limited amout od corpses instead. Like, when the amount goes over the limit the oldest one disappears. This would also mean you could change the limit in the options.

 

He might be making fun of the people who claimed that longlasting corpses in Doom4 would be impossible/too resource intensive in light of this mod:

 

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1 minute ago, igg said:

I don't think you really understand/understood the original Quake. It was raw. It was hilariously violent. It was serious. It celebrated strong weaponry. The weapons felt like construction machinery hammering on the mysterious force of evil.

 

Although Doom had the more interesting setting, Quake was much more immersive and the weapons were much more fun. A medieval looking rocket launcher causing enemies to explode, a nail gun which hammered both the player and it's opponent.

 

I get all of that. My point was that for me (and I reckon at least some others), that wasn't the take away.

 

Again, I know that isn't a universal impression ,but I personally didn't feel like the combination of "speed demon on crack" and "serious atmosphere" worked, nor do I think that it led to a more immersive atmosphere. Like I said, I felt like the game play was at direct odds with the world they were building (well, as much of a world as they were building at all). 

 

I just feel like Quake 2 (and to an extent 4) was a more cohesive experience at the end of the day, and I can sympathize with other dev teams taking off of its world, rather than the mountain of guesswork they'd have to climb if they came out and said "we're doing Quake 1". 

 

Bear in mind; I'm not trying to take a dump on Quake. It's absolutely one of the worlds out there that heavily inspired me in my actual work. It is, however, not a game I go back to due to the above dissonance, which I remain convinced only got a free pass back in the 90's because a) it was the super-hero studio that was iD, b) the hammer of its technology, and c) multiplayer, which is rather unaffected by my criticisms of its single player issues. 

 

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Whenever i think of expanding Quake, i wonder about its cut content/concepts and the two expansions.

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Regarding the question on the OP, IMHO Id should take a break from Doom after Eternal and bring Quake back to its lovecraftian origins.

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After the jump from Doom 2016 to DE, I think the guys are exhausted and will need to refresh themselves.  The next Doom game would also be on the next gen of consoles as well and Bethesda seems to be wanting to just release one game from every series per console generation.

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20 hours ago, cambreaKer said:

doom 3: 2, just to end the doom 3 trilogy

 

Doom 3 feels unexplored and there's probably still a lot of potential and i feel like it could deserve an expansion.

Like, instead of a flash light, they should bring back the light amp visor.

Fix the shotgun and give enemies some more unique attacks.

Maybe even find a way to execute its own "Hell on Earth" and Heaven, with its own unique takes on it and enough Doom to make it better than the cancelled Doom 4. (maybe make the Earth feel like Duke Nukem 3D in the sense it has a variety of places (even real life landmarks) but ruined and twisted by Hell and even some interactivity)

(and Heaven could be executed in a way where it's also invaved by Hell to make the setting scarier and there's like possessed angels or angels begging for help)

And maybe make the gameplay take notes from System Shock 2 or Fear.

 

And also explore cut content and concept ideas from the series.

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I think after Doom Eternal id Software should definitely change it up and work on something new, or at least different. They have been working on Doom nonstop, at least in part, since 2007 when the original canned Doom 4 was announced. That was during the Bush administration. Even I of all people have to admit that's enough Doom for now.

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On 2/6/2020 at 9:16 PM, deepthaw said:

My only worry is what could it do to set it apart from NuDoom, other than being all purple and Lovecraftian? What's the "modern" take on Quake, and how does it differ from the modern take on Doom?

This question is exactly why I'd like to see a new singleplayer Quake; curiosity to see how the new Id Software would interpret it. They did such a fine job reinventing Doom's premise, that it could be really interesting, and potentially really cool, to see what they could do to flesh out the Quake (1) universe.

 

Much as I like the NuDoom series, I'm kinda starting to feel a bit saturated. Id has indeed been working on the Doom franchise for a very long time now and I'm getting a little weary of it.

Which brings up the odd issue with a Quake 1 reboot really... what the heck would that even look like? Would it be a "slower-than-NuDoom" pace that's all about atmospheric dread and survival, or would it be  a game about a superhero punching Cthullu's friends in a plotless game ala the original Quake? If the latter, then we're basically saying "it's NuDoom". If the former, then I can only imagine a lot of Quake die-hards will call foul the way some of the Doom community did at the dawn of Doom 3.

I kinda picture it a bit like a game about a tough, but Human military dude who has walked into a nightmarish trap, from which there doesn't appear to be any escape and the harder the protagonist struggles, the deeper into the nightmare he falls, all the while he's struggling to cope with the situation. This would give it some contrast to NuDoom's "The situation is fucking bad, but you're even worse to the bastards who're making the situation bad".

 

I wonder what it'd be like if they made it a game where you start out relatively slow, but eventually you unlock upgrades that will make you faster and more agile (sort of like Doom 2016 let you unlock double-jumping and eventually faster mantling).

 

As for other Doom games down the line, if Doom Eternal is a kind of reboot of Doom II, then we have yet to see pseudo-reboots of TNT, Plutonia and Doom 64.

Maybe some of that will be DLC.

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If they try a reboot of the Quake series, they could do to try and solve that series' identity crisis by merging the stories of Quake I and II, with a three way conflict between the player, the Strogg, and Shub's spawn. This would set it aside from Doom.

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