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Foebane72

Remember when Doom was SIMPLE?

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Also, to add up, a problem with the new Doom's could be potential new ideas that may never happen, instead of just "new things that don't really fit Doom" or "old Doom things that aren't carried back".

A reason being if they don't "fit" the reboot version of Doom, even if they could fit any other portion of the series.

Or even ideas that could potentially work with the new games but the developers don't see how.

 

Some of Doom 3's enemy designs worked because of how experimental and weird they are and i fear that a problem with "Doom lore" is if it creates some established rules on the setting and art direction, despite being a series that usually ignored its story, went through alternate art style changes and its identity was like a mix of random stuff and worked because of it.

Something like "every demon has some spikey shell/chitin like design and they can't make their own tech monsters and Hell cannot be that much of a mix of different assets".

 

Heaven is a good example, considering Hell's visual looks in each game and what Heaven could have been if it existed before. (since Heaven in Doom has a lot of potential and how it'll be portrayed in Eternal could eventually demonstrate a huge difference between how old and new Doom portray their settings)

Some stuff from the new games could be fun to experiment with different designs or even backstories and different gameplay executions even.

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If they were to keep the more simplistic gameplay of previous Doom games, it would get a little tiresome.

Eternal still retains the fast gory gameplay Doom is known for, but it still has to innovate in a lot of areas to keep it feeling fresh and new.

Kinda like how Doom 2 added the new demons that really made a big difference compared to Doom 1.

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19 hours ago, MFG38 said:

The unfortunate truth is that games have evolved a lot in the past quarter of a decade, and overly simple games are only seen as boring by today's audience. 

That's not in any way truthful or unfortunate. People can argue the only evolution of gaming that matters is the leap from Atari to NES (I still don't know how anybody can enjoy a video game where your character is a shape).

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On 2/5/2020 at 8:43 AM, Foebane72 said:

Well, it was almost all new people, wasn't it? I was just used to how the id Software of the 1990s operated, not these new kids.

 

Then get used to the new 'kids', the old staff had to move on elsewhere someday. They are making something out of love of the old things, but rather than keep things more of the same like the classics, they are sprucing it up.

 

You don't want it to become something like what you said...
 

On 2/5/2020 at 8:43 AM, Foebane72 said:

It certainly is! Call of Duty is a completely unoriginal boring shooter with the same old enemies over and over, whilst Doom Eternal has at least got lots of original demon kills, and I want to see Doom take over the genre.

 

...because before Doom 2016 become what we know and love, it was going to be exactly that. The new kids had a better idea, and that's why they need to keep things fresh.

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They can evolve, that's perfectly fine, but not every new added thing is necessary or executed well, sometimes games can feel bloated and unfocused (quality over quantity may apply), I played some games where I felt like I was just doing a checklist of arbitrary busywork that had no substance, but judging by what was revealed so far it doesn't seem like there's going to be stuff like that here (or at least not a lot of it) I just hope some people stop being brainwashed and agreeing with every single decision they make and actually discuss things in a constructive way, disagreeing with something does not necessarily make you a hater (I don't want to sound like I'm disagreeing with the gameplay changes here, I think they're going to be fun, this is unrelated to Doom Eternal, It's more about the evolution argument)

But at the end of the day it's matter of opinion whether you like some changes or not, you may not like them but there's always going to be someone else who likes them, and the voice of the majority is what drives these sorts of decisions I feel (that and of course the vision the developers have)

Edited by sluggard : worded better

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49 minutes ago, Asking4Id said:

That's not in any way [...] unfortunate.

 

I'll agree with you on that. I was mainly using that word in reference to the OP's apparent wish for a more simple AAA shooter game in 2020.

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Hard to really form an opinion on eternal before I get to play it for myself but so far I like what I see. I have classic Doom still if I want to play a more simple Doom and will have eternal to play when I want to play that game. I look forward to the new gameplay personally. There's a few things in the modern Doom games that if I were to have any say in it's development I may have done differently, but so far so good imo.

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On 2/4/2020 at 3:52 PM, Foebane72 said:

 

You see, this is it, this is exactly the thing that's pissing me off about modern Doom games, they try to be like other games I don't give a toss about:

You say that Doom Eternal is trying to be like Metroid Prime, and I've heard others say that Doom 2016 had elements of Devil May Cry about it.

 

If Doom is no longer it's own UNIQUE and ORIGINAL IP and is just copying others, then I'm not interested.

 


Whoa hold on there...DE will have that mode where you can go wreck someone’s campaign.  I don’t recall seeing that in any other game.  And let’s see what multiplayer has cooked up as well.  2016’s multiplayer was “too safe” instead of trying something new.  Plus you will be able to play as the enemy as well.

 

The reason why I said Metroidvania was that the platforming in DE reminded me of MP but it’s not exactly the same.

 

It’d be nice to have a new retro Doom game too given the amount of data storage space these days.

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1 hour ago, Jalapen0 said:


Whoa hold on there...DE will have that mode where you can go wreck someone’s campaign.  I don’t recall seeing that in any other game.

 

They clearly stole that from Dark Souls.

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15 hours ago, MrDeAD1313 said:

I have classic Doom still if I want to play a more simple Doom and will have eternal to play when I want to play that game.

I'm not asking for a simple rehash of an old game, I would love a new game with some new original ideas but every time we try to ask for that we got comments like "just play classic doom lol" (not saying Eternal doesn't have some ideas that weren't done with Doom before)

Edited by sluggard

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3 hours ago, Antroid said:

 

They clearly stole that from Dark Souls.

Or he meant none of the games in the series.

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5 minutes ago, ZeroTheEro said:

Or he meant none of the games in the series.

Maybe, but he was saying that in counterpoint to the notion that DE is copying other games, so I figured he meant in general.

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I complete agree with the original poster, games are overdone these days, nothing is simple. You have RPG mechanics, optional objectives, challenges, weapon mods etc. stuffed everywhere, and nothing is just simple fun. I miss the old days, when games made you use your limited abilites creatively to overcome equally creative obstacles. Nowaydays games are so bloated that I often end up not finishing them - because coming back feels like coming to work.

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55 minutes ago, Szuran said:

I complete agree with the original poster, games are overdone these days, nothing is simple.

 

You're playing the wrong games then. We are quite literally in the age of retro - indie studios have never been more successful, many good releases are simpler than games of the late 80s/early 90s.

 

However some people actually enjoy progress and advancement in games/feature sets and find the complexity of modern games to be engaging and enjoyable. We get it, that's not for you specifically, but instead of whining on some forums somewhere, I'd suggest you consider looking in the right places; there's more selection than ever before and yet people like yourself seem to have more to complain about than ever before which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

Spoiler

e26.jpg

 

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It's funny because I used to think those were the things that made games replayable for me, I probably had enough of those. Ok I'm starting to think I'm annoying the readers so I'll stop lol.

Edited by sluggard

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2 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

 

 instead of whining on some forums somewhere, I'd suggest you consider looking in the right places; there's more selection than ever before and yet people like yourself seem to have more to complain about than ever before which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

 

 

"Hey, let's discuss stuff on a DISCUSSION BOARD!"

"Okay, I like other thing more than this thing."

"STOP WHINING JEEZ JUST SHUT UP WHY EVEN COME HERE."
 

Ah, the essence of internet.

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The new Dooms won't be your classic dooms. You should probably play DUSK or Amid Evil or something else.

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Seems like people are just repeating the exact same argument at this point, yes I am already aware of indie retro shooters but I'm not a fan of those (rambling ahead) to me they feel no different than playing a mod on an old game, you can tell they lack some sense of originality.

E: I should have taken this to its own topic but with the whole new doom should evolve argument being repeated all the time without even discussing it I couldn't resist. Anyways it's clearly not for me so that's also fine.

Edited by sluggard

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5 hours ago, Szuran said:

I complete agree with the original poster, games are overdone these days, nothing is simple. 

Isn't it the criticism of modern games is that they are boring/generic and simplistic

hhmmmmmm.......

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2 hours ago, sluggard said:

Seems like people are just repeating the exact same argument at this point without bothering to read the context, and yes I am already aware of indie retro shooters but I'm not a fan of those (rambling ahead) to me they feel no different than playing a mod on an old game, you can tell they lack some sense of originality and give me a feeling of déjà vu.

E: I should have taken this to its own topic but with the whole new doom won't be old doom argument being repeated all the time I couldn't resist. Anyways it's clearly not for me so that's also fine.

The_future_is_now_old_man.png

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3 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

The_future_is_now_old_man.png

Joke's on you, I'm 23 ;P

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Just play the game for what it is instead of putting so many expectations on it. if you don't like it, play Classic Doom, it's not going anywhere.

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The games have to move forward and evolve in some capacity, we could have just gotten another retro styled entry, but then what would be the point of it, except for maybe enhanced graphics?

 

Even so, I don't feel like the new games have gotten overcomplicated, especially when looking at what else is out there ("bloated" could definitely apply to those, where you spend considerably more time learning to play the damn game instead of actually playing, and that's not a great way to invest limited time at all), I think  they're more-or-less on-point with the complexity of the gameplay and whatnot. I don't doubt that after getting a bit used to the new stuff, using it will be like second nature.

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1 hour ago, Dubbagdarrel said:

Just play the game for what it is instead of putting so many expectations on it. if you don't like it, play Classic Doom, it's not going anywhere.

That's fair, I have no problem with the games evolving, not just in terms of graphics, my whole argument was about the content padding that lacks depth, I guess it's fine if it's for completionists.

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15 hours ago, Jalapen0 said:

 

It’d be nice to have a new retro Doom game too given the amount of data storage space these days.

 

I can see an issue with it feeling like a paid mod as one of its potential problems but sometimes i like to imagine new official retro stuff being well made and good enough, that doesn't feel like a rip-off and still has some passion behind it.

I do wonder if id would ever collab with some modders and fans for some official new addition to the classic portion of the series, be it just a new wad being added to the new ports or even something more than that.

 

Because i always been thinking about stuff like "what if old Doom had a Heaven" or "classic redesigns for new enemies" (mainly because some have interesting attacks that could benefit from something more than locked arenas) and even though some stuff could be done in some mod , i guess there's something special about a good "fanfiction/concept" being "canon" if you get what i mean. (specially for a fanbase that kept the series alive with a lot of great and varied content)

 

Same could apply to Doom 3 because the Phobos mod from what i've seen looks amazingly done, like a missing D3 expansion.

Even crazier would be something for Doom 64 or the RPG games even.

 

Spoiler

The most impossible would be an official Doom game as its equivalent of Sonic Generations and it'd have a similar concept to MetaDoom.

 

Not just because of the potential of content and representation of the games/history (whether or not i'd be similar to how the mod does it), but also because of the engine/tech potential of having a level design/enemy placement structure of OG Doom with some of reboot Doom's aspects like weak spots on some enemy types and monkeybars and from Doom 3 you'd have the interactive computer screens and mirrors.

Too impossible, though.

 

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16 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Isn't it the criticism of modern games is that they are boring/generic and simplistic

hhmmmmmm.......

To split some hairs on this, I feel like the issue is complexity of rules/mechanics VS the complexity of situations and ways you apply and use those mechanics. Games are being bloated with additional mechanics, but the level design is getting simpler and the actions you perform are more repetitive and less engaging. OG Dooms had simple and finely tuned mechanics and it was the levels that did all the work making YOU do all the work. Nowadays, in a simpler game, you go down a metaphorical tunnel, or wander aimlessly around a metaphorical empty field, and the game tries really hard to make that at least a bit satisfying by giving you endless cool-looking simple things to do and numbers to increase through grinding.

 

Thankfully, DE doesn't seem like it suffers from simplified level design, we'll see when it comes out.

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On 2/7/2020 at 2:37 AM, Antroid said:

Maybe, but he was saying that in counterpoint to the notion that DE is copying other games, so I figured he meant in general.

 

You were right I meant games in general.  I haven't touched Dark Souls and I have read a lot of positive reviews from that game so an addition like that couldn't be a bad thing.  But what mattered to me the most were all the glowing praise that the media had for DE after giving that game a spin.  After those came out, I pre-ordered DE for the PS4 Pro.

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Fuck. Not the horrible complex lore! I prefer my doom with porn plots! 

 

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How about this OP, what should a new Doom game on modern platforms look like to *you*?

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On 2/5/2020 at 10:43 PM, whatup876 said:

a problem with the new Doom's could be potential new ideas that may never happen

I hate it when this happens, Doom 3 RoE ending was left open to interpretation, ME1 sequel was skipped and they decided to just reboot instead. kind of annoying to think about. but I guess they need to do it so they don't scare away new comers.

Edited by sluggard

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