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Ajora

'Chair girl' apologizes in court as judge announces sentencing date

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3 minutes ago, Cynical said:

WTF no one is saying "throwing chairs of of balconies is fine", we're saying "teenagers shouldn't go to jail for doing the kind of stupid shit teenagers do", there's a big difference there and I'm kind of amazed that you're too dumb to see it.

Doing nothing at all - and using excuses that are things literally every teenager goes through to get off the hook - does not set a good precedent. You gotta at least acknowledge that.

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3 minutes ago, High On Berserk said:

Ah yes, typical angry incel calling for different view or opinions followed by projections and tough talk. Totally haven't seen that before. Everyone can do that from behind monitor and keyboard, pumpkin. As for suggestion, thank you, but I'm not murderer, vandal or someone who despite knowing better proceeds to do reckless things, so I believe its best you take your own advice. For this case, some prison or solitary time for her to reflect on her accomplishment would be fit.

Registered: 01-20

 

@Ajora I'm going to assume you've never been on a college campus.  I don't care whether someone is "legally" an adult, college kids aren't adults and do dumb shit all the time.

 

@Doomkid  I didn't say do nothing.  I said probation, a social media ban, and community service was appropriate, not "no punishment at all".  Jail fucks people's lives up, and shouldn't be used in cases where someone wasn't trying to behave maliciously.

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8 minutes ago, High On Berserk said:

Ah yes, typical angry incel calling for different view or opinions followed by projections and tough talk. Totally haven't seen that before. Everyone can do that from behind monitor and keyboard, pumpkin. As for suggestion, thank you, but I'm not murderer, vandal or someone who despite knowing better proceeds to do reckless things, so I believe its best you take your own advice. For this case, some prison or solitary time for her to reflect on her accomplishment would be fit.

 

Edit: Ban from social media desperately needed too.

 

Ah, so hard time, solitary confinement, AND the suggested-as-mitigating social media ban cherry on top! That'll teach the bitch.

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(True story:)

 

when i was 16 i was dared to snort catnip, I said sure, so they diced it up with a (questionably sanitary) knife and i snorted it,

 

Basically my point being everyone has done utterly stupid shit in there life, but this doesn't mean they should get away with it. (Expecially if it was in America she could be facing a Attempted Assult charge)

 

But seeing as she has no remorse for what she did then i say go all out on her. (Apply Large fines and community service)

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Uploading a video of yourself throwing a chair off of a balcony, and then smiling about it in a court appearance is not commonplace dumb shit that teenagers do. 

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I guess this is anecdotal but yeah, I never felt the urge to throw a chair off a balcony even as a teenager, I must sheepishly admit. I guess that's not the norm now?

 

Regardless, I do think probation, social media ban and community service is a better way to actually get the message across as to why what she did is dumb and shouldn't do it again. In the fantasy world where prison was actually designed to rehabilitate people I'd say some time would be warranted, but considering how it is now, it's probably not ideal. Statistically speaking, going to prison is far more likely to turn her into a criminal than discourage future criminal acts. Just more proof that the way it operates now is completely ineffectual.

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@Cynical "Jail fucks people's lives up, and shouldn't be used in cases where someone wasn't trying to behave maliciously." Does this also apply to people who unintentionally killed people as a result of drinking and driving? 

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Just now, Ajora said:

@Cynical "Jail fucks people's lives up, and shouldn't be used in cases where someone wasn't trying to behave maliciously." Does this also apply to people who unintentionally killed people as a result of drinking and driving? 

No, because people actually got killed.

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I'm impressed how many draconian morons are replying to this thread. Especially that one guy that said "several years in solitary". Yeah, let's torture her for years! What a perfectly rational response to hazardous mischief. What a jackass.

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Wanting a 1-year prison sentence for reckless behaviour endangering human life is draconian? Giving people prison sentences for smoking marijuana is draconian, not this. 

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2 minutes ago, Ajora said:

Wanting a 1-year prison sentence for reckless behaviour endangering human life is draconian? Giving people prison sentences for smoking marijuana is draconian, not this. 

 

Sit in a concrete room for 365 days and see if it makes your posting any better

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Just now, Marcaek said:

 

Sit in a concrete room for 365 days and see if it makes your posting any better

 

You're not a very nice person.

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8 minutes ago, Maggle said:

I'm impressed how many draconian morons are replying to this thread. Especially that one guy that said "several years in solitary". Yeah, let's torture her for years! What a perfectly rational response to hazardous mischief. What a jackass.

Draconian would be chopping her head off with a guillotine.

 

I agree that prison is too harsh of a sentence (for like billionth time) but why does every even remotely controversial topic instantly lead to pejoratives. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who thinks engaging in that crap belittles a person's point. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a moron does not seem like a surefire way to change hearts and minds. Evidence suggests it actually turns people away from agreeing with you even when you're right.

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1 hour ago, Cynical said:

Young people do dumb shit that could get people killed if it goes south all the time, and we're not throwing every dumb kid in jail.

Ah, yes, the classic "boys will be boys" defense. Also, this is a grown woman so you can throw the whole "teen" and "young" labels out. Doesn't matter if she's 19 or 39 in this case.

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Man this thread is going south. Regardless, after reading about how much fame and followers she's received via social media, and also the multiple  court sessions skipped for reasons like this, I think a lengthy social media ban, long enough for her to be forgotten and irrelevant might be a better punishment for her.

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40 minutes ago, Ajora said:

@Cynical "Jail fucks people's lives up, and shouldn't be used in cases where someone wasn't trying to behave maliciously." Does this also apply to people who unintentionally killed people as a result of drinking and driving? 

These aren't even close to equivalent cases -- for one thing, as NIH mentioned, outcome matters.  But, for another thing, there's been a forty-year long massive "don't drink and drive" campaign that's been impossible to miss.  Everyone has had that one ingrained in them forever now.  Maybe I've just missed it, but I have yet to see the giant decades-long "don't throw chairs off of balconies" campaign.

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In Ontario, any instance of mischief that is a potential danger to life is an indictable offense wherein the perpetrator is liable for a prison sentence. Yes, outcome matters, but so does the action itself, regardless of the end result (see section 430 of the Ontario Criminal Code). 

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24 minutes ago, Ajora said:

Wanting a 1-year prison sentence for reckless behaviour endangering human life is draconian? Giving people prison sentences for smoking marijuana is draconian, not this. 

Who do you think I'm talking about?

Quote

Send her to prison. Several years in solitary with no chance for parole.

This guy isn't talking about 1-year prison sentence (which is already too harsh), he's talking total isolation for some unspecified "Forever-o-Clock" far-off date with no chance of escape or respite. Does that not seem completely fucking insane? Do I have to dig up the UN study that concludes that solitary confinement is torture? Because it is, but I think you might get the point.

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2 minutes ago, Ajora said:

In Ontario, any instance of mischief that is a potential danger to life is an indictable offense wherein the perpetrator is liable for a prison sentence. Yes, outcome matters, but so does the action itself, regardless of the end result (see section 430 of the Ontario Criminal Code). 

Sounds like Ontario has a fucked up legal system with broadly-defined laws that can be used to justify incarcerating basically anyone.  I'm not sure why anyone would be in favor of this.

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I do not condone torture, including solitary confinement (which in my mind is definitely torture). I've angered a lot of people for holding this belief, but I stand by it.

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7 minutes ago, Ajora said:

In Ontario, any instance of mischief that is a potential danger to life is an indictable offense wherein the perpetrator is liable for a prison sentence. Yes, outcome matters, but so does the action itself, regardless of the end result (see section 430 of the Ontario Criminal Code). 

It is a potential danger to life to do a backflip in a public park, because your shoe could slingshot off your foot and hit some grandma sitting on a park bench, cracking her skull and causing a major brain hemorrage that kills her the next day. Should we lock up anyone who does parkour, then? 

 

Maybe that's a bad example because of the astronomically low chance of something like that happening, but it certainly illustrates the importance of proper wording when writing a law like this, because, as Cynical said, this can be used against basically anyone. It's ridiculously vague.

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For the record, I have nothing against criminal reform and I know full well that over-incarceration can lead to a litany of complications, and is an acute problem in a lot of places in the world. I don't believe in the death penalty, and as I've said, torture is not only a terrible thing, it's also not even a useful method of interrogation. By all means, I hope this young woman gets some professional help (and I'm content with my tax dollars paying for said help). Please don't make me out to be some sort of bloodthirsty monster. 

 

But I don't think that Section 430 of the Ontario Criminal Code is as vague and ambiguous as many of you are stretching it out to be. Yes, there's definitely some grey areas with this sort of thing that are open to interpretation, but this specific case I don't think is one of them. 

Edited by Ajora

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1 hour ago, Cynical said:

Thank you for being a perfect example of why I say that members with a join date after Doom 4's release should all be assumed to be morons.

 

This post is the one positive thing I'm taking from this thread.

 

Obligatory nuance: I guess there are probably some post-doom 4 members who aren't bad.

 

Oh yikes I nearly left "notify me of replies" switched on. Can you imagine.

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40 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Draconian would be chopping her head off with a guillotine.

 

I agree that prison is too harsh of a sentence (for like billionth time) but why does every even remotely controversial topic instantly lead to pejoratives. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who thinks engaging in that crap belittles a person's point. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a moron does not seem like a surefire way to change hearts and minds. Evidence suggests it actually turns people away from agreeing with you even when you're right.

I'd say torture is pretty draconian, too. In fact, even more so. At least a guillotine doesn't prolong suffering for years. 

 

And I'd have to disagree and say that proposing someone be locked in solitary for years of their life for some dumb instagram stunt is perfectly deserving of an insult, because it's dangerous logic. No country on the Planet should have a criminal justice even resembling that. Last year, we here in the States had an incident with some chick who licked a carton of ice cream and put it back, simply for Social Media clout. Now, is this wrong? Yes. Is this a potential health risk? Hell yes. Is it anything anyone should endorse at all? Fuck no. But the response to that was way over the top. I swear to fuck, some people wanted her crucified over that shit. People with that mentality clearly have not thought about this, don't understand or just don't care about the ramifications, and they need to be knocked down a peg.

 

That's a farcry from "everyone that disagrees with me is a moron", so I suppose I'll concede my original post came off a little strong, but being a little mean is good, sometimes.

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I'd say that she should have a stint in prison, like maybe only a week or two in a minimum/medium security as a threat of "if you injured/killed someone this could be the rest of your life", give them a feel for consequences without going full ball (hell maybe even just a cell for the night, people get that all the time in England), then community service for like a month or two and her account suspended.

 

That'll do em.

 

They need to be tought a lesson on consequences and risks, nothing life ruining, nothing completely awful.

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I owe some of you an apology. I feel so embarrassed right now. In-line with the Crown's arguments, the Ontario Criminal Code, and my own interpretation of the ethical and legal substantives involved in this case, I stand behind my belief that a prison sentence is still warranted. But the way I attempted to get my view across was completely unacceptable and I behaved very rudely. And perhaps my wanting 12 months in prison rather than the Crown's 6 months is a bit overkill. 

 

edit: I know that it's considered by many people to be in bad form to edit previous posts in this fashion, but I think that some of what I said here was a bit overreactive on my part. All the same, I do feel ashamed of the behavior I exhibited here, and I really don't feel comfortable posting here again any time soon. 

 

But with that said, I am entirely not cool with a certain someone's deleted post that advocated for Chair Girl to receive the death penalty for her actions. That definitely does go way too far, and I can't wrap my head around someone thinking her reckless behavior warrants her being put to death. 

Edited by Ajora

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Uh OK? I'm not sure why you're making a big deal out of this, frankly this whole thing seems kind of weird-

 

3 hours ago, Ajora said:

Her Instagram account subscriber count has skyrocketed, she's now a verified account, and she even appeared in a Drake music video.

 

*Spider Sense intensifies*

 

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9 minutes ago, Ajora said:

I'm deeply sorry for how I conducted myself. I should be better than this. 

Dude. You're fine. Humans make mistakes. Most people around here are able to forgive those who are in turn willing to do some self-reflection and questioning of themselves and their own beliefs.

 

If saying and doing minorly dumb things from time to time warranted disowning people, then everyone would disown everyone. You've always seemed like a reasonable guy and even when I didn't agree 100% I never detected malice. Ironically you feeling uncomfortable with showing your face around here just over this little spat is one of the most unreasonable posts from you I've read, lol.

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