BuildGDX now supports Legend of the Seven Paladins 3D, with gameplay fixes

[taufan99]

BuildGDX v1.08 is out now! Several bugfixes and improvements for the LSPGDX core are as follows:

• MusicType no longer resets to MIDI
• Clipmove (Engine.java:2607) crash fixed
• Fixed the crash when opening load/save menu in software renderer. (Software.qinterpolatedown16short (Software.java:3466))
• Exits on map will show if it's enable in the Game Options submenu (by green sectors). The correct (map+1) exit will flicker as well.
• Gamepad invertion, move speed fix
• (perhaps the most important (?)) Projectile spam can now be switched in the Game Options submenu.

Grab the whole BuildGDX port here:

https://m210.duke4.net/index.php

 

Anyone who has ever heard of the game knows just how primitive and unplayable the game is, due to its unfinished status as well as the fact that it used Build map version 4 not used by any other Build games.

However, the time has come to witness a major revolution that may (or may not) change the game's status forever.

Starting from v1.07, BuildGDX supports Legend of the Seven Paladins 3D, and adds several fixes, including but not limited to enemy projectile attacks and jumping mechanism.

 

Older, obsolete videos:

(February 1st video)

(February 11th video)

 

"Eh, I've never known this game before, and that still looks terrible..."

In case this is the first time you've heard about the game, here's a video of the original DOS game.

There is also an unofficial English translation for DOS out there, which is the preferable way to play the game with BuildGDX. I do not provide the download link, as I have no knowledge regarding its legal status.

Edited April 3, 2020 by InDOOMnesia : v1.08 release.

[ReaperAA]

W.... Why?

[elend]

Preserving games. Yes, also the weird and downright ugly. Imho a good effort.

[Hitscanning_scumbag]

I applaud anyone who tries a for a proper well done remake, but this still looks unplayable to me. 

I've never heard of this game until today and.. Goodness... The sounds are awful the menus is awful, and the graphics are only so so at best. Maybe one best laid to rest. 

[taufan99]

37 minutes ago, zaszthedestroyer said:

I applaud anyone who tries a for a proper well done remake, but this still looks unplayable to me. 

I've never heard of this game until today and.. Goodness... The sounds are awful the menus is awful, and the graphics are only so so at best. Maybe one best laid to rest. 

I can see where you're coming from, but I would like to object as well.

If you have watched the third video (which I just recently added on the OP), you'll realize just how exactly unplayable the original one is. There, any projectile shooter shoots a long, neverending stream of projectiles, killing you in no time. Enemy placements worsen this issue as well.

Also, keep in mind that this was published in 1994 and developed by a Taiwanese company (who only had a brief contact with Apogee), so yeah... Not exactly a bright release.

As for the GDX port, I do agree that it could use some more tweaks though.

[Redneckerz]

Weapons and enemies are hilariously OP. Interestingly enough, its one of, if not the earliest Build game, using illegal source code.

 

Paladins 3D vs Doom 3DO. Which one is more unplayable? :)

[cybdmn]

just try both and judge for yourself.

[Hitscanning_scumbag]

Yeah that's my fault for not reading the titles. Saw the Last one cause I was kinda busy, but the port does look like A massive improvement. Thanks for being so understanding @taufan99

[taufan99]

2 minutes ago, zaszthedestroyer said:

Yeah that's my fault for not reading the titles. Saw the Last one cause I was kinda busy, but the port does look like A massive improvement. Thanks for being so understanding @taufan99

It's okay! I noticed not too many people know it as well nowadays.

[Graf Zahl]

If he manages to fix the game, this may be worth playing - if he tries to make a 1:1 reproduction I'll happily pass. I'm not sure if these more obscure Build games are really worth the effort. I was quite underwhelmed by Witchaven and TekWar already, this doesn't really look more promising.

[cybdmn]

Witchaven was irritating, because you didn't really know what to do, and where to go. Part II was even worse. TekWar was just shit just for one simple reason, if you donn't holster your weapon, the police shot you down. If you holster your weapon, the enemies shot you down. Whoever created this logic was a complete idiot.

 

WWII GI and NAM/Napalm where nice tries, but poorly executed.

 

And Paladins was a bad joke.

[Graf Zahl]

7 minutes ago, cybdmn said:

Witchaven was irritating, because you didn't really know what to do, and where to go. Part II was even worse.

 

I won't complain about not knowing what to do - I never got that far - what bothered me far more is the atrocious player movement. I've never seen a 3D FPS with such poorly programmed movement logic.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, cybdmn said:

WWII GI and NAM/Napalm where nice tries, but poorly executed.

 

But both games have one big advantage - they are actually playable!

 

 

[cybdmn]

Yea, movement in WH was a big showstopper too. One thing which didn't work really was the melee fighting.

 

WWII GI & NAM: Playable, yes, but not fun. :-D

[taufan99]

1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

If he manages to fix the game, this may be worth playing - if he tries to make a 1:1 reproduction I'll happily pass. I'm not sure if these more obscure Build games are really worth the effort. I was quite underwhelmed by Witchaven and TekWar already, this doesn't really look more promising.

I think I can hear somebody shouting "Raze support when" for those games from the distance. :P

[cybdmn]

And i can hear Graf telling it isn't worth the effort.

[Graf Zahl]

These games would be worth the effort if fixing the gameplay was part of the package - but the public reaction to that doesn't even need to be guessed.

What I have done is trying to get Witchaven to compile under Windows - but I left it at that - it was more for experimenting than for getting the game to work.

 

[cybdmn]

Was it the source released by Les Bird? As far as i remember, he didn' know if his sources are the final ones, or just some older snapshots.

[Graf Zahl]

Yes, I toyed around a bit with that source - never got it to do anything useful, though.

 

[cybdmn]

That's what i read from others too. Given the fact that the source may be incomplete or just a snapshot, the question-worthy license topic, and the amount of work to fix even the biggest bugs and gameplay issues, i don't think it's worth the time.

[Graf Zahl]

The code is complete enough that Ettingrinder made a DOS port from it that was actually working.

 

[VGA]

7 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

The code is complete enough that Ettingrinder made a DOS port from it that was actually working.

 

Later, when Raze is more stable and the big titles run well, you should make a poll about whether to add the Tekwar and Witchhaven games in an improved and bugfixed fashion or not at all :D

 

I know the result beforehand!

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

It's been a while, but as I recall the big issue with getting the Witchaven sources to work was struct handling, where the game would load/save some stuff in a struct-at-once fashion.  The Watcom compiler apparently changed the default way that structs were represented in memory at some point since then, so the quick and dirty fix to get it to compile with Watcom was to give the offending structs a #pragma pack directive.  I suspect that's not an ideal solution if it comes to getting it to compile on something else, but I dunno.

There was also a smaller issue with some exotic hardware support being broken (due to a missing library I think?) that also caused compile problems, I solved that by just removing it.  I think it was for supporting some VR helmet hardware that no one even remembers existing or something along those lines so not a big deal.  If there were other issues for compiling... I've forgotten.

Similar probably applies to TekWar but I never looked into that.

[Graf Zahl]

17 minutes ago, VGA said:

Later, when Raze is more stable and the big titles run well, you should make a poll about whether to add the Tekwar and Witchhaven games in an improved and bugfixed fashion or not at all :D

 

I know the result beforehand!

 

If I could just clone myself so I can spend more time on this. :(

What I really could use is a bit of help right now but I know from 15 years of experience developing GZDoom how hard an interested developer is to come by...

So yeah, maybe in a year or so, but then there's also the unclear license of the source - not that anyone might ever care about these old and obscure games.

 

13 minutes ago, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

The Watcom compiler apparently changed the default way that structs were represented in memory at some point since then, so the quick and dirty fix to get it to compile with Watcom was to give the offending structs a #pragma pack directive.  I suspect that's not an ideal solution if it comes to getting it to compile on something else, but I dunno. 

 

But that's mainly a portability issue - we already got that for the other games which just save raw data structures in their savegames. For EDuke at least, 32 bit and 64 bit savegames are not compatible.

 

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

These games would be worth the effort if fixing the gameplay was part of the package - but the public reaction to that doesn't even need to be guessed.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily use Doom as a metric for this instance.  A "Chocolate Witchaven" is pretty much impossible unless you were to somehow get your hands on the Capstone devs' own machine(s) to analyze from, because a fair many of the bugs, including much the janky movement, stem from machine speed sensitivity and pretty much have to be fixed to at least be consistent across machines if you're making a port at all.

[hybridial]

Not gonna lie I'd far prefer he spend his time doing Shadow Warrior GDX. I just wanna play a version of Shadow Warrior with decent controls and at this point there's 3 potential avenues, Raze, VoidSW and SWGDX, but hard to say when any of them might be truly ready. 

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, hybridial said:

Not gonna lie I'd far prefer he spend his time doing Shadow Warrior GDX.

 

^This.

[Redneckerz]

8 hours ago, cybdmn said:

just try both and judge for yourself.

I hope you know the question was said in jest. I am not sure what to do with this kind of advice.

[Martin Howe]

Regarding L7P, the reaction to a gameplay-fixing source port (a GZDoom 'treatment' of the game): while the purists in Duke4 and DoomWorld might ignore it, among the ZDoom community, it might be a different matter.

Personally, having never seriously tried to play L7P due to being unable to read Chinese and not interested in playing DOS games except through a source port, I'd have nothing to compare it as implemented as 'GZPaladins' (or even 'Ninja's Best Friend' LOL); so I would welcome it in Raze or a similar work.

[Gez]

I can't imagine anyone wanting to seriously play L7P as it was shipped. I mean, maybe once, out of curiosity, to experience just how mind-bogglingly broken and unfun the game is, but more than that? Just look at that "long gameplay" video, skip to about 12 minutes in to actually see some gameplay, and open your eyes wide. Anyone wanting a "purist port" of this abomination is a troll.

[Hitscanning_scumbag]

19 minutes ago, Gez said:

I can't imagine anyone wanting to seriously play L7P as it was shipped. I mean, maybe once, out of curiosity, to experience just how mind-bogglingly broken and unfun the game is, but more than that? Just look at that "long gameplay" video, skip to about 12 minutes in to actually see some gameplay, and open your eyes wide. Anyone wanting a "purist port" of this abomination is a troll.

*skips to 12:27 out of curiosity *

* player throwing disks at a wall for way too long*

*turns off video*

Me: huh.