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InDOOMnesia

BuildGDX now supports Legend of the Seven Paladins 3D, with gameplay fixes

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You absolutely need to watch for long enough to see how every single monster just throw an endless, nonstop stream of projectiles as soon as they see the player, and do not stop. Every frame, every mobj with line of sight throw a projectile. No exception.

 

Such great gameplay...

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But Gez, what are you thinking? This enemy behavior is the core feature of the game! The entire point here obviously is not to get in the line of fire of the enemies because if you do you're dead. Changing this will destroy the essence of this game!

 

(Needless to say, the 'essence' here is not worth thinking about. The game is so broken that porting it is pointless.)

 

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9 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

(Needless to say, the 'essence' here is not worth thinking about. The game is so broken that porting it is pointless.)

Well not quite ... not if somebody creates a mutator that makes it less crazy. Which is the first thing I'd do if a source port of it had a half decent scripting system. Of course I accept it won't happen in Raze, but will see what the GDX port is like when it is released.

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3 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

What makes you think it will get a half decent scripting system? ;)

 

Because once the GDX port is out, some people will try their best to mod something out of this game?

 

Although I wouldn't be surprised if they won't, as I also don't know if Build editors can actually be used for the game, with its primitive Build version.

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It is not just that the game is bad, it is also culturally insignificant. At least Tekwar has its own story/universe, it is a tie-in to a book and a TV series, it has Shatner videos etc.

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2 hours ago, VGA said:

It is not just that the game is bad, it is also culturally insignificant.

I... somewhat agree with you. The title is actually based on an 1879 novel, itself based on an storyteller's story. Outside of the original novel as well as countless adaptations, either PR Chinese, Hong Kongese, or Taiwanese, not too many people, especially non-Chinese, know or talk about it.

 

Still, it'd be a big lie for me not to admire this game as an unconventional adaptation of the novel.

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5 hours ago, taufan99 said:

Because once the GDX port is out, some people will try their best to mod something out of this game?

 

So, does Doom vanilla style have a scripting system? By your logic all modders should have switched to more modern ports a long time ago!

 

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

So, does Doom vanilla style have a scripting system? By your logic all modders should have switched to more modern ports a long time ago!

 

DeHackEd comes to my mind reading that question (yeah, I know it's not an internal engine stuff, but still).

Also, I wasn't saying people should move on from the original version in favor of the GDX port. I know there will *always* be that kind of people who try their hand on the original, ridiculously unbalanced version. However, odds are many more people will opt for the GDX one instead, as the original version offers far too little fun and playability to casually enjoy.

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4 minutes ago, Mordeth said:

 

Yes.

 

No. Hacks don't count. Especially those discovered 26 years after the fact, meaning that its existence now has zero relevance for the past.

 

Ok about Dehacked, but let's not forget one thing here: Most maps don't use it. They could make do with the game's stock configuration. But with this game it simply isn't possible to make anything decent with that stupid attack pattern. And let's not even think about the obscurity of this game which will make modding for it a side interest. Any porting effort will be to run the original game, not mods, so that leaves us with an unplayable game, because we can be sure it will be recreated 1:1.

 

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I wish this guy could do something for Dark Forces, yes I know it's not a Build game but I'd love to see a better done port than the incomplete DarkXL.

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4 hours ago, taufan99 said:

DeHackEd comes to my mind reading that question (yeah, I know it's not an internal engine stuff, but still).

Let me know how can you make a Turing-complete Dehacked machine (as reference, the BOOM conveyor + fake players are Turing-complete because they let you design any conditional or looping mechanism that ultimately does whatever you want). Let me know if you can design a custom thing in Dehacked that can be placed in the editor to obtain arbitrary combinations of sector actions.

 

4 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

No. Hacks don't count.

Especially hacks which hurt the player don't count. I can understand that 4% damage "is nothing" in the great scheme of things, but still feels too dirty, as if the player is poisoned a little in order to achieve something out of the ordinary. This may make sense in hellish maps, but I'd rather not see it in clean techbase settings. I'd rather see something which doesn't harm the player.

 

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3 hours ago, Avoozl said:

I wish this guy could do something for Dark Forces, yes I know it's not a Build game but I'd love to see a better done port than the incomplete DarkXL.

 

While I certainly agree, this would be a lot harder. Don't forget - for a Build game you do not have to reverse engineer the entire render backend. That already exists in a form where a new game can be plugged in.

 

for Dark Forces you'd have to decompile all the low level code as well - not to recreate the renderer but to get an understanding of what it can do and how to handle this game either with some existing engine or by doing a higher level implementation.

 

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Dark Forces needs the Nightdive treatment, too bad it is a Star Wars game and getting the license for a remaster is unrealistic.

 

More realistic would be to recreate it in GZDoom.

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But even so, a recreation will never be able to hold a candle to the original.

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3 minutes ago, seed said:

But even so, a recreation will never be able to hold a candle to the original.

Moreso that which is created with another engine from the original.

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5 minutes ago, seed said:

But even so, a recreation will never be able to hold a candle to the original.

Why?! You mean a Nightdive-style remaster or a GZDoom recreation?

 

What will be missing?

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17 minutes ago, seed said:

But even so, a recreation will never be able to hold a candle to the original.

 

That entirely depends on what gets recreated and how much can be restored.

DF is one of those games where the missing savegame feature killed all motivation I had for it - a remake could only improve on that.

 

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1 hour ago, seed said:

But even so, a recreation will never be able to hold a candle to the original.

It depends on the original. I think @Impie's recreations of Nerves of Steeel of Operation Body Count are more interesting by far than the originals.

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Impressive how I got assaulted with replies after that statement :V .

 

Maybe so, but what I was trying to say that some things will be different to some extent thanks to not running on the original engine - take physics for instance. Whether it'll end up being better or not than the original was besides my point.

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1 hour ago, seed said:

Impressive how I got assaulted with replies after that statement :V .

Even more impressive considering one of those users (VGA) got hit with Facts on Saturn Doom yesterday and spontaneously decided to stop posting. The more you know. Its almost like its not about an actual debate but rather about being surprised that people hold different opinions other than yourself.*

 

*This sounds fiendish, but i mean no ill. I just found it peculiar that it happened when it happened. VGA, love ya. :)

 

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11 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Even more impressive considering one of those users (VGA) got hit with Facts on Saturn Doom yesterday and spontaneously decided to stop posting. The more you know. Its almost like its not about an actual debate but rather about being surprised that people hold different opinions other than yourself.*

 

*This sounds fiendish, but i mean no ill. I just found it peculiar that it happened when it happened. VGA, love ya. :)

 

In that thread I was not convinced that the Saturn hardware could not have a software rendered port running at least at the same speed as the 32X port. People started posting diagrams of the Saturn architecture ... whatever that proves.

 

In this thread I am surprised that someone would be concerned over a recreation of Dark Forces in GZDoom or a Nightdive remaster not holding a candle to the original. Hmmm? It will be better than the original if done properly, why not?

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18 hours ago, seed said:

 

Quote

 

Just to remind y'all, let's talk about that matter where it originally belongs to.

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2 hours ago, VGA said:

In that thread I was not convinced that the Saturn hardware could not have a software rendered port running at least at the same speed as the 32X port. People started posting diagrams of the Saturn architecture ... whatever that proves.

It was to answer your point that Saturn Doom ran worse - But you didn't articulate quite why and were convinced that it was simply a botched port.

 

It also helps if you read the explanation that came with those diagrams. I was not explaining that out of malice to put a heel into your POV, but i was surprised that you stopped participating right thereafter

 

2 hours ago, VGA said:

In this thread I am surprised that someone would be concerned over a recreation of Dark Forces in GZDoom or a Nightdive remaster not holding a candle to the original. Hmmm? It will be better than the original if done properly, why not?

Seed is more likely to refer to emulating original behavior perfectly as-is - Stuff like physics or player interaction. Remasters may change these things depending on how the remaster is done. It is a legitimate concern as developers tend to introduce QoL improvements in their remasters - Which do wonders for a new audience, but may not be as well recieved by those who played the original. As such, an option for ''vanilla behavior'' (saying this very broadly) should always be something to consider.

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3 hours ago, Doominator2 said:

Thanks for sharing, Obscure unreleased games are so fascinating to me. 

Sure thing!

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On 2/12/2020 at 12:20 PM, VGA said:

It is not just that the game is bad, it is also culturally insignificant. At least Tekwar has its own story/universe, it is a tie-in to a book and a TV series, it has Shatner videos etc.

 

On 2/12/2020 at 2:34 PM, taufan99 said:

I... somewhat agree with you. The title is actually based on an 1879 novel, itself based on an storyteller's story. Outside of the original novel as well as countless adaptations, either PR Chinese, Hong Kongese, or Taiwanese, not too many people, especially non-Chinese, know or talk about it.

 

Still, it'd be a big lie for me not to admire this game as an unconventional adaptation of the novel.

 

Remember, Lot7P was thing from Chinese, it most likely nobody give a shit if have no interest at this novel(even most Chinese/Taiwanese back in that time doesn't like FPAction/Shooter that time), and worst thing is...the shitty gameplay, unfinished feature implementations with crap bugs/unbalanced bullshit almost ruined the whole game...too bad.

 

Well, at least it was a rare Chinese theme of FPS that when most nameless heroes(player characters) killing corrupted ancient Chinese (Song Dynasty) officers to save the people...

 

I'm sure this game was created because in that time(early 1993 - early 1994), a TV series in Taiwan --which also based the 1879 novel's Bao Zheng, the legendary judge of Song Dynasty -- got smash hit...yeah Lot7P released just months after the show ended...(end of Feb. Sep. 1994)

EDIT: No the game was released after Sep. 26 1994, I just made mistake, sorry.

 

Shit...I don't know Wikipedia has English page for the TV show...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Pao_(1993_TV_series)

Yeah...that show was hit in Taiwan and HK back then...and I watched...oh...good ol' time...

 

Too bad this game just fall into victim of "cash grabing" and "business scams".... *sigh*

 

 

Edited by Player Lin : Added shit, sorry about my shitty grammar...

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