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doom_marine666

What is your most hated demon in Doom?

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Zombies.

Let me put it this way: After wading through a sea of every monster in the game, you finally kill the very last imp (so you think). At this point you've probably single-handedly wiped out half the undead army of Hell (so you think). You've survived Barons, ArchViles, Mancubi, and maybe even a few Cyberdemons. But THEN! Then what kills you? A motherfucking Zombie.

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I've never been killed by former humans as often as by sergeants. In fact FHs have never caused any such freak accidents to me. Sergeants are different story, and I'd consider them as the classic nightmare run killers.

Maes said:

The only thing worse than a bunch of Revenant, is a bunch of revenants backed by an Archvile.

An even better combo is an archvile backed by mere Demons! They never anger the Vile, they eat ammo, eat space, eat you, and rocketting them is unsafe.

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I dislike maps where hitscanners are spammed too much so losing health is unavoidable, but the hitscan enemies themselves are quite good when used in the right way.

Arch Viles are great, making them weaker would ruin the game. They're supposed to be powerful, they're supposed to make you go "oh shit!" when you hear their creepy walk noise, they're supposed to instill fear because you know they're not a cakewalk to bring down. If they were any weaker they'd be no threat at all, and one of the most chilling and atmospheric parts of Doom 2 would be lessened greatly.

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Lost Souls, they always seem to pop up in my face when I'm busy with the rocket launcher.

Revenants, I hate how they move, and when they fart off their missiles they seem to think they are so smartass grr..

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If you hate a Doom monster I would place the fault at the feet of the mapper who misuses them rather than the attributes of the monster itself. I think all Doom monsters have their pros and cons depending on how they are (mis)placed and as a player or mapper I really don't hate any of them... Oh wait, the Mastermind. I hate the Spider Mastermind.

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I hate the player the most. It's really fast, smart and sneaky, fills hallways with nasty rockets in an uncanny way, overruns you with a barrage of blinding plasma bursts, stealthily spams murderous BFG blasts filling whole areas with energy tracers, or quickly splatters you with that unforgiving super shotgun.

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dutch devil said:

I don't hate any doom monster.


For some reason, this made me think of a hippie going around in Doom giving monsters marijuana joints and making "peace" gestures. Or a televangelist preaching to a bunch of Doom monsters.

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I can tolerate revenants, arch-viles, especially pain elementals (never found them annoying), but i hate chaingunners, no matter how they are placed. I wish they didn't exist in doom.

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Maes said:

For some reason, this made me think of a hippie going around in Doom giving monsters marijuana joints and making "peace" gestures. Or a televangelist preaching to a bunch of Doom monsters.


Or a Pacifist runner

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I friggin' hate Pain Elementals and Lost Souls. I even made a small shitty patch that changed their health to 1 and the Pain Elemental dropping 5 Stimpacks when it dies just so I don't have to deal with them.

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Lizardcommando said:

I even made a small shitty patch that changed their health to 1 and the Pain Elemental dropping 5 Stimpacks when it dies just so I don't have to deal with them.

Hahaha :D

I sometimes think about making a DEH which I autoload to make gameplay more to my liking, or at least more difficult. Things like giving the Mastermind 3000 or 4000hp, making monster hitscans do the same damage as mine, etc. It would be cool to get alot of people in on such a thing, make a community-endorsed Difficult Doom or something :P

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Wanna make Doom tougher? It's simple: don't pick up any armor. After seeing how just one encounter with a lone imp or sergeant can cripple you in no time, and how a single Revenant shot can down you even with 75% or so health, you will find it difficult enough.

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The easiest and patch free way to make Doom harder is playing on UV with -fast. It's almost intended to be this way.

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printz said:

The easiest and patch free way to make Doom harder is playing on UV with -fast. It's almost intended to be this way.

I've never really had a proper try on -fast, but I just played a few E1 and E2 levels and it's amazing how right you are. It's almost as if the gratuitous amounts of health and ammo in the IWAD levels are balanced for -fast. Maybe we've been doin it wrong the last 15 years :P

I wonder if there are any PWADs made specifically for -fast?

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Maes said:

Revenants.

They have the single most damaging projectile attack after the cyberdemon's rocket (max 80 HP damage, which also happens way too often). Only being hit simultaneously by multiple mancubus fireballs or a single rocket to the face may be worse. In maps where armor is scarce and health is anywhere < 80%, any confrontation with a Revenant may be a sudden death.


This. I could be at 100% then suddenly I'm at 40% because of their bullshit damage range. It wouldn't be so bad if their rockets weren't homing every other time. Basically Revenant + No Armor = Death

Another problem with Revenants is that while they can beat the crap out of you most of the time they have very poor health for a higher tier enemy. This can lead to people throwing hordes of them into maps, underestimating their ability to put the hurt on the player.

And their like the only enemy who's sprite doesn't match the space they take up. What's up with that?

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Super Jamie said:

I wonder if there are any PWADs made specifically for -fast?

I don't know, but for nightmare mode E3M5 does have a series of shortcuts.

Oh, I saw you meant PWADs.

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Goddam Lost Souls!

You know the type of situation, you have a shitload of monsters to deal with but you're not worried, you have a bunch of rockets just begging to make the acquaintance of said monsters.

Then you spot them. A group of Lost Souls have arrived, anxious to join in the fun. Your heart sinks and you hope that warm feeling in the seat of your pants isn't what you think it is.

Goddam Lost Souls!

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Most annoying doom monster? Spider Mastermind...

Seriously... wtf. So it's the final "boss" of doom 1 (or is it ultimate doom? I don't remember, I started with doom 2, and only just recently played through doom 1 all the way), but a single cyberdemon could take like 10 of them, and still have the health to take a bfg or three.

One of these days I'm going to dehack it to have the same health as the cyberdemon, maybe up its rate of fire too.

As far as the monster that has given me the most trouble? It's a tie between chaingunner (man I love to fight them, unless there are 5 or more and no monsters to use as cover) and the Imp (such a pathetic monster I forget that there's a room full of them behind me and focus on the baron or archvile or cyberdemon).

The most overpowered monster would have to be the archvile, not because it's hard, but because it keeps raising that fxxing baron >.<

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Now really for me, the most annoying monster has to be the plain demon. Sometimes he's the freakiest, but mostly it's a pest, more so when you need to Run.

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Blargharghargh said:
but a single cyberdemon could take like 10 of them, and still have the health to take a bfg or three.

Unless they're placed so that all the spiders infight, that is rather unlikely. On a one-on-one, they're close to equal. The cyberdemon will likely win if they are far apart, while the spiderdemon will gain chances if they're close together, as more of its bullets will hit the opponent. The fast monsters setting should also benefit the spiderdemon, because its insistent attacks will tend to interrupt the cyberdemon more often.

Using the spiderdemon in numbers is kind of silly, of course, because of its attack mode. If you want hordes of bosses, use cyberdemons, as they're like giant imps, instead of giant shotgun guys :p

The point of the spiderdemon is a big monster that can be dangerous to an exposed player, such as someone without health or cover, but not so much to a fully equipped one. Perhaps its rather easy in E3 as a whole, but then again, perhaps Inferno itself is rather easy in general.

Play E3M8 from scratch and you'll see it can be tougher, especially if you're trying to kill it quickly. You can use infighting to make things easy, but it'll take more time. Using the not-so-plentiful and spread out ammo in E3M8 against it makes it harder, considering also that there are no healing items in the level.

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Imho, E3M8 is only really fun if played from Pistol Start on Ultra-Violence (Since the mastermind usually gets owned if it's nightmare)

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Lost souls. By a long shot. Since they can fly anywhere and at breakneck speed, and they get in the way. Plus, because of their speed, they often lead to massive wastes of ammo

Pain Elementals, since they spawn those things are second, but I always thought their sprite looked cool (and even better in doom64). It's too bad they couldn't have just been a more powerful version of the cacodemon (attack-wise) rather than lost soul spawners

Revenants are third, but my only gripes with them is the fact that I hate their annoying noises they make, and at close range, they are just as annoying as the lost souls

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Chaingunners are ridiculously overpowered for such a basic monster, and feel out of place in Doom's monster lineup. A version that does only 1d5 damage rather than 3d5 damage per shot would have been less annoying and could have been used more liberally and mixed in with other zombie types. To me, such a small and frail monster doesn't "deserve" that kind of firepower.

Many custom monsters are pretty irritating, especially the really gimmicky ones and the overpowered ultimate death zombies (the Rocket Guy deserves a KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANN! scream for its appearance in KDIZD). My Bestiary submission, the Squire, was intentionally designed as a simple bread-and-butter monster because there are too many monsters on there reliant on stupid gimmicks or spammy attacks.

Kyka said:

Also the hell knight. Cheap recolour. 'nuff said.

Hell Knights are awesome. The Barons had the opposite problem from the Chaingunners--too little power and way too much health, making them a bore to fight. The Hell Knight salvages the crappiest monster in the original Doom into something fun to fight. Fighting a group of Barons without the plasma rifle or RL is exceedingly dull.

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Woolie Wool said:

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANN!

FFFUUU- is the new Khan.

Also I agree about Hell Knights. They place the player in sufficient danger but can be dispatched relatively quickly, even with the normal shotgun. This enables them to be used in the early parts of a level in small numbers, or grouped with other monsters later for greater challenge. They're a very dynamic enemy, I'm thankful for their creation in Doom 2.

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