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Coincident

[quick start] How to change starting player angle?

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I've seen some demos where the player performs a trick that I have no explanation / information about, even after searching these forums.

The trick is: the level starts with a custom player angle. It seems that a rotation is applied to the player even before the first tick (you can see it during the "screen melt" effect on map start).
This is visible, for example, on Vincent Catalaa's record of E1M4, NM100S: https://dsdarchive.com/wads/doom/leaderboard?category=NM+100S&level=E1M4
 

With this trick, a player can start the level at the perfect angle to immediately start SR50 in the right direction on the very first tick.

This can save a few frames, and be an advantage in some cases. I'm surprised I don't see this trick being used more often...

 

So... 2 question about this trick:

1 - Is it allowed? (as in, for DSDA / Compet-N submissions)
2 - If so; how can I replicate it? Does it work with PrBoom or do I need some other source port?

Edited by Coincident

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The first tic can be read if you were entering input at a specific moment before the map starts loading. But how to do that so precisely is beyond my knowledge. I would believe if it was like W + D or W + A, but he also turns left at 32 in-game degrees (32 * 1.4 = 44.8 angle - I don't know how this measure is called).

The second tic is read right after the screen melting effect is over. Here you have enough time to press movement keys and turn the character with your mouse, and when the melting is over - you will instantly turn at an angle.

Edited by Dimon12321

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I use this all the time. As soon as I click my demo recording bat file, I shift my mouse either left or right a certain amount. This results in an altered starting angle upon loading the map, which is really helpful for getting off immediately. For example, MM2 MAP12, you start on a narrow bridge looking away from a door. Instead of turning around and then running across the bridge after the map loads, I move the mouse to face the door (at an angle to strafe run, of course) before the map loads. Therefore, I can immediately run across the bridge without any required turning. It essentially allows you to proceed with your speedrun quicker.

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i use this all the time, prboom doesnt show a different angle during the melt, but crispy does

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The trick is called "quick start". It accounts for the first 1-7 frames of the demo or so. It is slighly dependant on your computer and heavily dependant on the source port. Each source port has a different kind of quick start. The best quick start at the moment is in Crispy Doom with the in-game restart button. You can get it angled with an insane S50 start. I think an in-game restart button would make it even better for prboom+, too.

 

16 hours ago, depr4vity said:

i use this all the time, prboom doesnt show a different angle during the melt, but crispy does

It will, if you turn on the very first frame, though :-)

 

Under Prboom+, the quick start looks SOMETHING like this:

Frame 1: MF50 SL40 (MF50 = W/forward. SL40 = A/strafe left)

Frame 2: MF50 SL40 TR38 (TR38 = turn 38 'tics' to the right)

Frame 3: MF50 SL40

Frame 4: MF50 SL40

Frame 5: MF50 SL40

Frame 6: MF50 SL40

Frame 7: MF50 SL40

Frame 8: MF50 SL50 (the first frame where the game feels like it is not stuck in the melting screen anymore, but player can turn with the mouse, for example)

 

In CrispyDoom it is something like this:

Frame 1: MF50 TR31

Frame 2: MF50 TR7

Frame 3: MF50 SL40

Frame 4: MF50 SL40

Frame 5: MF50 SL40

Frame 6: MF50 SL40

Frame 7: MF50 SL40

Frame 8: MF50 SL50 (again the first frame where player gets the normal control back, similar to prboom+)

 

And with in-game restart button in CrispyDoom it looks like this:

Frame 1: MF50 SL40 TR38

Frame 2: MF50 SL50

Frame 3: MF50 SL40

Frame 4: MF50 SL40

Frame 5: MF50 SL40

Frame 6: MF50 SL50

Frame 7: MF50 SL50

Frame 8: MF50 SL50 (full control gained around here)

 

And in DOSbox + original exe it looks something like this:

Frame 1: MF50 TR31

Frame 2: MF50

Frame 3: MF50

Frame 4: MF50

Frame 5: MF50

Frame 6: MF50

Frame 7: MF50 SL40 TR7

Frame 8: MF50 SL50 (full control gained around here)

 

And in original exe under DOS environment it looks something like this:

Frame 1: MF50 SL40 TR38

Frame 2: MF50 SL40

Frame 3: MF50 SL40

Frame 4: MF50 SL40

Frame 5: MF50 SL40

Frame 6: MF50 SL40

Frame 7: MF50 SL40

Frame 8: MF50 SL50 (full control gained around here)

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Thanks Looper! That's exactly the information I was looking for.

I have to get Crispy Doom and practice that "quick start" while recording some demos to see what happens.

By the way, how can I open a demo file to see the frame-by-frame information inside?
Can I use kraflab's demo analysis tool, or do you recommend something else?

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6 minutes ago, Coincident said:

By the way, how can I open a demo file to see the frame-by-frame information inside?

 

I'm using XDRE v2.06 or 2.09

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Not to open a big can of worms, but is fixing this something we should pursue? By fixing I mean making it equivalent across the major ports (and probably aligned with vanilla). Probably for most players the differences aren't important but for the people pushing stuff like no01 it's pretty vital 😄

 

I think it's "ok" right now to say "if you're pushing the absolute human limit then you'll need crispy for the quick start" but it's not exactly ideal.

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Funnily enough, in my first few demos, my run would automatically have me face towards the right. Dunno what all that was about. 

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