Build Engine Poll!

[_bruce_]

Blood by far, but Duke was a really good game too -  no matter if single or multiplayer... coop via serial cable was so much fun.

Shadow Warrior has an extremely strange style and the maps are not my cup of tea. Deathmatch was hilarious though. The mapping style is pretty advanced but when playing through it in SP/coop it's just one map after another for me. There's no map that I really adore like in Blood or Duke. I dig some of the humor but it's too much... some of the lines are pure gold nonetheless.

 

Redneck Rampage was extremely disappointing to me. Some cool locations and from a technical perspective impressive but as a game it feels weird and offputting. The redneck / Elvis / aliens theme got old fast... no thanks.

[Dubbag]

Ion Fury

[reflex17]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

I always saw Shadow Warrior more as lampooning bad Kung Fu movies and their stereotypes.

Just as Redneck Rampage pokes fun at Hillbillies.

 

Sure, both games occasionally overdo it - but their creative level design is miles ahead of Duke and their entire artwork style appeals a lot more to me than Blood's strange mixture of modern and antiquated.

 

occasionally is an understatement. I can't see why the other games have better level design than Duke3d, because E1M5 Abyss is the best build map ever created. That map alone obliterates SW and most of Blood. 

[hybridial]

3 hours ago, reflex17 said:

 

occasionally is an understatement. I can't see why the other games have better level design than Duke3d, because E1M5 Abyss is the best build map ever created. That map alone obliterates SW and most of Blood. 

 

... I don't like that map in particular, its one of my least favourite in Duke 3D. 

 

My favourite of the build games is easilly Blood, because the gameplay and atmosphere outdoes the other games, and it has some real killer levels in the first episode and later on. Honestly I probably like the train level the most. 

[reflex17]

Yeah the train level was cool, it's amazing what some scrolling textures can do for the sort of illusion of movement. The metallic palette shifts in Blood were cool like the train engine room. Some of the later castle levels in Blood are really well done, and I always like the sky palace in SW too, it was interesting how you could fall through the cloud layer

[Jello]

Blood, it'll always be Blood. After that, Ion Fury probably. Then Duke 3D, then Shadow Warrior. I really liked Shadow Warrior's theme and level design, but the game is just not fun to play. The effectiveness of the weapons is over the place (extremely inaccurate quad barrel shotgun, and extremely inaccurate uzi? great), and the enemies just tear you to pieces. And I can't see the what good could come from giving you a nuclear missile in a game comprised of small corridors. From what little I've played of Redneck Rampage, I can't stand it. That's all, I just can't stand anything about the game.

[Komenja]

Hey speaking of Lo Wang, you guys should read the Shadow Warrior novels! If you thought his character was a little off-putting in the game, you ain't seen nothin yet! Turns out, even Wang's inner thoughts are in broken engrish.

Spoiler

Honestly the second book ain't too bad (different authors), but oh boy that first one.

 

On topic: Duke > SW > Blood > RR, need to give Ion Maiden more time to think on. I loved it, but I don't know where I'd place it yet.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Komenja

[taufan99]

35 minutes ago, Jello said:

And I can't see the what good could come from giving you a nuclear missile in a game comprised of small corridors.

Shadow Warrior has several bosses with actual visible health bars that you'd usually expect in platformers and/or rail shooters. The final boss, Mr. Zilla, is especially a big pain to fight.

[Antroid]

Duke or Ion Fury if it was in the poll. Then Blood, because it was kinda neat though it was pretty broken in some aspects (I played the dosbox version and the amount of AI and hit detection-related bugs was astonishing) and annoyingly designed, but it still had a nice vibe in the end. Shadow Warrior though I despise with all my heart and actually think it's the worst FPS I've ever played (and I've beaten Daikatana). It's more boring than Quake 2 and much more frustrating than Blood for me.

[Jello]

2 hours ago, taufan99 said:

Shadow Warrior has several bosses with actual visible health bars that you'd usually expect in platformers and/or rail shooters. The final boss, Mr. Zilla, is especially a big pain to fight.

I know. I just got sick of killing myself trying to kill bosses.

[_bruce_]

19 hours ago, reflex17 said:

 

occasionally is an understatement. I can't see why the other games have better level design than Duke3d, because E1M5 Abyss is the best build map ever created. That map alone obliterates SW and most of Blood. 

 

E1M5 is just one map - how can it obliterate an array of levels that range from good to fantastic? Duke has some stellar maps but so does Blood. Blood's "The Overlooked Hotel" could very well "obliterate all of Duke3D".

[seed]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:12 AM, taufan99 said:

Shadow Warrior has several bosses with actual visible health bars that you'd usually expect in platformers and/or rail shooters. The final boss, Mr. Zilla, is especially a big pain to fight.

 

*laughs in Smoke Bomb and punching Zilla's robotic balls*

 

Honestly I never found any problems with SW's gameplay or arsenal, every weapon serves its purpose in the game if you know how to use it. The Uzi's can be effective at longer distances too, but not on tough enemies, and the Shotgun is best used to take down Rippers, tougher Ninjas, small groups of enemies, Guardians, and so and so on.

 

Also the Nuke is not meant to be used during regular gameplay in general, that's best reserved for bosses and to a lesser extent for enemy infested areas, such as the one full of Rippers on Darkwoods of the Serpent after taking the portal, or rooms swarming with enemies, but you can use Grenades in these instances too. The Ripper Heart can also be used to clear infested areas, and Rail Gun to put down tougher, lonely enemies, or a few of them if you manage to sort of line them up.

Edited February 16, 2020 by seed

[hybridial]

I did manage to force myself to be used to how the Shadow Warrior Redux edition controls on a controller to play through all of it, but I assure you guys its just awful.

 

Other than that, I thought it was a great game, and I really want the ability to play a version that isn't a dumpster fire to play. 

[seed]

Well, there's the problem, a fast paced shooter like Doom and the Build games are gonna be a nightmare with a controller, so no surprise you've had next to no fun with such a setup, unless the control scheme is too bad and keys can't be rebound. I don't even want to know how Blood is with a controller lol.

 

Also another pro-tip, as a semi-continuation of my previous post: Crouching exists for a reason in SW, just like in Blood. If you never crouch don't complain when you get killed by a tough Ninja's missile. But don't crouch non-stop like you can do in Blood either, since they seem to fire missiles at your current level. Also, use your inventory items, the Gas Bombs and Smoke Bombs in particular are extremely useful.

[hybridial]

2 minutes ago, seed said:

Well, there's the problem, a fast paced shooter like Doom and the Build games are gonna be a nightmare with a controller, so no surprise you've had next to no fun with such a setup, unless the control scheme is too bad and keys can't be rebound.

 

This is not what I mean, I play all FPSes with controllers. I haven't done WASD controls in games in years because really it only took a couple of years for that to cause me genuine pain in my hand. Also I'd argue with Doom a controller is just the same as using a mouse and keyboard, it's not a game designed around precision aiming. But whatever, the controller on PC argument has for me, got to the point where I wish literal death on any and all the elitists about it, mainly because of putting up with it for fucking years, so lets not go there.

 

If you are curious and have access to a controller, an Xbox 360 or One controller which is what I have, I suggest trying Shadow Warrior Redux with it, then compare it to just about anything else, even Nblood with using something like Xpadder or Antimicro to map the controls. There is something genuinely fucked in Shadow Warrior Redux that doesn't even happen in Nblood when you're emulating the controls. In fact most games work alright that way even when they never had controller support originally, like Thief or System Shock 2 or Deus Ex or FEAR to give examples I played recently. Hell, Raze in its current state is better if still not ideal.  

 

I can't explain what the problem is with that Shadow Warrior port, its like they had to put in work to make it feel so terrible. 

[seed]

So it is what I've been thinking then, the controller support in Redux is just subpar compared to everything else.

 

Eh, that doesn't really affect me since I've not hold a controller in my hands since my days on NES, and that's circa 11yrs ago at this point... I'm gonna have such a good time with controllers when I will eventually get a console, or maybe more, I dunno. Over the years I've simply got fed up with the constant need to chase the newest and shiniest hardware just to play a few triple-A games that just so happen to catch my attention (aka I'm sick to death of system requirements. I'm completely done with this bullshit).

 

I might as well start playing different games as well, it's ridiculous just how many games have run past me all these years. Everytime I see posts about how many games others have played I feel like punching myself in the face and going to sleep... can't compare with other people's gaming experience in the slightest...

[qdash]

B  L  O  O  D

L

O

O

D

 

\m/ >:E \m/

[hybridial]

@seed I think these days even if you grew up with consoles and generally like playing console style games with a controller, PC is still the way to go now, because at this point controller support is very common, PC generally gets games across all genres so you will get stuff you like, and if you need a PC for other things, and I do need a PC for a few reasons other than gaming, it's more cost effective just to have the PC. Very easy to do the multiscreen thing where you can hook it to a TV as well nowadays.

 

I used to be a pretty big Nintendo fan too. The last Nintendo console I bought, was a Wii.

 

I don't miss Nintendo consoles anymore. Especially as 95% of the Switch's library are PC ports. 

[seed]

11 minutes ago, hybridial said:

@seed I think these days even if you grew up with consoles and generally like playing console style games with a controller, PC is still the way to go now, because at this point controller support is very common, PC generally gets games across all genres so you will get stuff you like, and if you need a PC for other things, and I do need a PC for a few reasons other than gaming, it's more cost effective just to have the PC. Very easy to do the multiscreen thing where you can hook it to a TV as well nowadays.

 

I used to be a pretty big Nintendo fan too. The last Nintendo console I bought, was a Wii.

 

I don't miss Nintendo consoles anymore. Especially as 95% of the Switch's library are PC ports. 

 

Yeah, but sooner rather than later upgrades are required, and that idea is pissing me off since it shows up every fucking time a fancy game captures my attention, and that's something I'm not exactly willing to put up with anymore. Gaming hardware is very expensive, at least it is here anyway, and I don't have money for high end hardware, which is why I want to eventually transition to consoles and keep the PC for other things. As of right now, gaming is pretty much the only hardware intensive activity I'm doing on PC tbh.

 

I've never been a Nintendo fan actually, I just so happened to play NES games A LOT because back when I was a kid my parents would constantly buy me games for NES clone systems (no, I never owned an actual NES, only clone systems) :p , and I liked them, so there's that. But nowadays the irony is that I want to catch up and expand my horizon when it comes to video games, but now I don't have the budget... And honestly that sentiment is probably sprung from some kind of pressure, I just feel like I'm horribly missing so many good games I could've played but never did...

[hybridial]

@seed yeah I guess I know what you mean, my position comes from the fact I feel done with AAA games entirely and thus whilst upgrades need to be done at some point, because PC components don't last forever, I wouldn't really need to spend an inordinate amount of money to get what I'd need. 

 

For a short while I did think "well maybe I should just get a PS5 or the new Xbox whatever its called when they come out to play newer games on" and I guess I wouldn't rule it out entirely that I might do that, but I think its more likely I just don't bother. And the games that come out that I do take an interest in are your Dusk's and your Wrath's and your Prodeus' which generally are PC first. In fact whilst I think Dusk, Amid Evil and Ion Fury got released on the Switch, none of them have been released on the PS4 or Xbone. Definitely not Xbone, I asked my friend to take a look for them on his. That's the kind of thing that makes me think, yeah, PC for me. 

 

 

[cybdmn]

Fate, maybe, if there where more than just a demo released. 

 

But seriously? Don't know, but it is a shame that this poll misses Redneck Rampage, for it have the most dense atmosphere of all Build games.

[VGA]

Blood for me. It is more unique and I think it aged better than all other Build games. It is more mysterious and difficult to imitate.

 

I see Blood is leading the poll against Duke3D, I feel it would be the reverse a decade ago.

[Asking4Id]

Blood > Shadow Warrior > Duke (hate the reload mechanic).

[ReaperAA]

After playing E1 of the awesome "Death Wish" mod for Blood, I am strongly considering changing my vote 😂.

[Toilet_Wine_Connoisseur]

BLOOD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and wayyy down here is Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior. Love 'em both but Blood BTFOs the competition

[seed]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

After playing E1 of the awesome "Death Wish" mod for Blood, I am strongly considering changing my vote 😂.

 

"Fool, you're already dead!"

[SlayerOGames666]

6 hours ago, cybdmn said:

Fate, maybe, if there where more than just a demo released. 

 

But seriously? Don't know, but it is a shame that this poll misses Redneck Rampage, for it have the most dense atmosphere of all Build games.

Oh, i just considered Duke3d, Blood and Shadow warrior off the top of my head. I gotta play Redneck Rampage when i get a better PC.

[taufan99]

6 hours ago, cybdmn said:

it is a shame that this poll misses Redneck Rampage,

I, too, feel the same, but it looks like far too few people remember or even like it as much as most, if not all other Build engine games (though Shadow Warrior also gets the most complaints out of them).

[markanini]

Blood, because it has the best feeling combat.

[seed]

11 hours ago, taufan99 said:

I, too, feel the same, but it looks like far too few people remember or even like it as much as most, if not all other Build engine games (though Shadow Warrior also gets the most complaints out of them).

 

Yeah, SW gets its fair share of criticism sometimes too, primarily due to the jokes being taken too far and the Shadow Ninjas who can potentially one-shot the player (pro-tip #3, those aren't hard to avoid either, just don't stand there looking at them when you see them and move).