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Build Engine Poll!

Build Engine Poll: What's your favourite Build Engine game?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your favourite Build Engine game?

    • Duke Nukem 3D
      18
    • Shadow Warrior
      7
    • Blood (my favourite)
      49


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Why do these get such criticism while some of Duke's ridiculously overpowered enemies don't?

Actually from that angle I found DN3D by far the worst of the Build games. Just think about the first baddie in the third original episode, if you don't know where the secret is, he's very likely to get you before you can do anything at all.

 

 

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I actually agree here, some of Duke's enemies can be just as annoying, if not even more so, if you don't know how to deal with them (I'm looking at you mini Battlelords... ).

 

And disabling autoaim to cheap them out with the Shrink Ray feels kinda cheaty to me... Duke gets a bit too much credit for supposedly being the best balanced Build game out of the Big 3 than it's worth imo. And in all seriousness, I unironically prefer Shadow Ninjas and swarming Cultists over mini Battlelords.

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Duke 3D's enforcers are worse than Doom's chaingunner. Chaingunners at least give you a very little forewarning as their chaingun starts glowing before the first hitscan attack, enforcers go to hitscan mode immediately.

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46 minutes ago, seed said:

Duke gets a bit too much credit for supposedly being the best balanced Build game out of the Big 3 than it's worth imo.

 

I'll admit I was among those folks who used to say that. But that has mostly because when I played SW and Blood for the first time, I found some enemies to be too unfair. Now that I am more familiar with both of those games and their mechanics, I feel that Blood is actually the most balanced of the 3-big build engine games.

 

46 minutes ago, seed said:

And disabling autoaim to cheap them out with the Shrink Ray feels kinda cheaty to me... Duke gets a bit too much credit for supposedly being the best balanced Build game out of the Big 3 than it's worth imo. And in all seriousness, I unironically prefer Shadow Ninjas and swarming Cultists over mini Battlelords.

 

Although I usually kill mini-battlelords using the shrinker (with autoaim off), I too find it kinda cheaty. Remember that in Duke 3D, the freelook (vertical mouselook) was added when the game was mostly complete and thus some of the aspects were not balanced with it in mind. People were so impressed by the the mouse look feature of a game called "Terminator: Future Shock" that they requested a similar option for Duke3D shareware, which was implemented in v1.1.

 

Mini-battlelords are really hard to shrink without using freelook (even with autoaim off as aiming at the feet is hard). This aiming becomes trivial with freelook.

 

19 minutes ago, Gez said:

Duke 3D's enforcers are worse than Doom's chaingunner. Chaingunners at least give you a very little forewarning as their chaingun starts glowing before the first hitscan attack, enforcers go to hitscan mode immediately.

 

^This. Their biggest issue is that they have no pain-state duration. As soon I hit them with the shotgun, instead of going in pain-state, they immedately start firing.

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19 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

I'll admit I was among those folks who used to say that. But that has mostly because when I played SW and Blood for the first time, I found some enemies to be too unfair. Now that I am more familiar with both of those games and their mechanics, I feel that Blood is actually the most balanced of the 3-big build engine games.

 

Although I usually kill mini-battlelords using the shrinker (with autoaim off), I too find it kinda cheaty. Remember that in Duke 3D, the freelook (vertical mouselook) was added when the game was mostly complete and thus some of the aspects were not balanced with it in mind. People were so impressed by the the mouse look feature of a game called "Terminator: Future Shock" that they requested a similar option for Duke3D shareware, which was implemented in v1.1.

 

Mini-battlelords are really hard to shrink without using freelook (even with autoaim off). But aiming at his feet becomes trivial with freelook.

 

That's a nice bit of trivia, didn't know freelook was added so late in development in Duke (shows you've been spending some time in Duke territory :p ). This further cements the fact that disabled autoaim to kill certain enemies coupled with freelook is not quite the desired experience, it gets too easy that way. Both Blood and SW feel like they didn't have the 2 features added after the fact (sure, I think neither had them originally, but once they were added they quickly became integral to the experience).

 

19 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

^This. Their biggest issue is that they have no pain-state duration.

 

Duke enemies do seem to lack pain states compared to SW and Blood. Cultists, Gill Beasts, Gargoyles, Ninjas, Coolies, Rippers, etc. visibly have pain states that trigger when shot, but in Duke barely anyone reacts to being shot. Enforcers, mini Battlelords, and the bosses don't really react, and if they do, their pain states don't actually prevent them from shooting. The Chaingun is pretty effective at triggering the pain states of some enemies, or at least stunlocking them, such as Pig Cops and Protector Drones, but that seems to be about it.

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21 minutes ago, seed said:

That's a nice bit of trivia, didn't know freelook was added so late in development in Duke (shows you've been spending some time in Duke territory :p ).

 

It was just something that I read some months ago at Duke4.net thread. This is one of the comments.

 

21 minutes ago, seed said:

Duke enemies do seem to lack pain states compared to SW and Blood. Cultists, Gill Beasts, Gargoyles, Ninjas, Coolies, Rippers, etc. visibly have pain states that trigger when shot, but in Duke barely anyone reacts to being shot. Enforcers, mini Battlelords, and the bosses don't really react, and if they do, their pain states don't actually prevent them from shooting. The Chaingun is pretty effective at triggering the pain states of some enemies, or at least stunlocking them, such as Pig Cops, but that seems to be about it.

 

What's surprising is that many enemies in Duke3D actually do have pain states. Octabrains, Sentry drones and Protector drones have pain states. But enemies that definitely should've had the pain states (enforcers and mini-battlelords) don't have em.

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Duke3D has the strongest nostalgia factor for me, it's THE iconic 90s FPS in my book, but I do have a fair share of warm feelings towards Shadow Warrior, plus there are some pretty interesting design choices in the levels. I love both Zilla Construction and Dark Woods of the Serpent, both are very atmospheric and I like how ZC has this coherent story/overarching objective thing going on with the need to restore power, then manufacture the key you need to progress, and finally drill your way to the exit. I can't remember any Duke level that would so closely weave environment interactivity and level progression as here. I think that in this, SW takes a little step further towards later games like Half-Life (just my opinion!).


As for Blood I haven't played it that much.

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Can't say I'm surprised to hear that ^, after all SW was always pretty ambitious at its core - just look at the prototypes to see some things, especially considering their time. Even the final game cranked the dial up, with more interactivity in the maps, and of course introducing vehicular combat, albeit limited to a few key portions of the game.

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