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Doomguy-1993

Are the Makyrs and Seraphim the same race?

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I don't think they are, because wouldn't that mean Doomguy was blessed by a bunch of drones? The hooded figure in Doom 2016 is clearly different looking than the art of the Makyrs. My take is that they are a higher order of "heavenly" beings. Possibly the same race as the

Spoiler

Father

mentioned in the artbook.

 

Either that or a separate faction opposed to the Khan Makyr. Possibly one that values free will. Or alternatively they could be humanoid avatars of the Wraiths.

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10 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

I like the idea that the hooded guy is from Heretic/Hexen's universe.

Me too, but sadly ID no longer has the rights to Heretic.

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On 2/18/2020 at 4:56 PM, Doomguy-1993 said:

Me too, but sadly ID no longer has the rights to Heretic.

 

To my knowledge they have publishing rights but not game develop rights to make a game.  Not sure if those rights can expire from Activistion if they chose to squat.

Edited by Zemini

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I hope there's a variety of Angelic creatures in the same way Hell has its variety of demons.

Same for places and assets for levels.

The idea of a techno Heaven with robot angels (with an exposed brain to parallel the SMM) isn't bad but there should be a lot more than that.

Like, it could be a portion of Heaven put next to more "ancient" or "natural" elements and some other weirder stuff.

 

Hell works because while it's still obviously Hell with certain elements and references, it's also a mix of different stuff, whether it's sci-fi, fantasy, horror, even a little bit "alien" or something crazy.

 

Besides the Maykrs almost feeling "too creative", they also seem "limited" so far.

Even the new Hell in games still tries to look Hellish and retain some variety to it, despite the lore differences of who makes the cybernetic demons and the levels not being as abstract/reality clashing as the classic ones.

So even if the Seraphim is shown as some D'Sparil/Daedalon look-alike, i hope it turns out he's like floating wings that aren't even as mechanized as the Maykrs.

 

Heaven in Doom is one of those things that may have "too much potential" that it should have existed before and done multiple times.

That's why i make posts like this because i think it could work.

 

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I think they are a subclass of angels? Or, like some type of Angelic offspring.

 

Spoiler

While the art book mentions that the Makyrs descended from the heavens it also states that they are “neither immortal, nor omnipotent”. They seem to rely on technology and Argent energy. The art book also goes on to say that their arrival was initially thought to be divine intervention by the people of Argent D’nur. The message appears to be that the Makyrs aren’t really what they claim to be.

 

My guess is that they are definitely connected to the Wraiths though. As it is suspicious that the Makyrs aren’t bothered by the Argentas’ religious order surrounding the Wraiths. In fact, the opposite happens. When the Makyrs arrive, they praise the people of D’nur for their righteousness. The Argenta  then synthesize their religious beliefs to incorporate the Makyrs.  Afterward, the Makyrs lead the Argents on what I am guess were crusades against various “enemies”. I think it is strange they didn’t label the wraiths as false idols or something.

 

I think the Maykrs send the wraiths to seed a planet and then reap it later with the forces of Hell.

Plus, the Codex entries on the Wraiths are similar to the Story of the Watchers, an origin story for Fallen Angels. That goes hand-in-hand with the idea of the Maykrs being Fallen Angels.

 

Spoiler

What is the Khan Makyr’s relation to the Father? Are they the same? Or is the Khan Maykr the first of the Maykrs? Just a title?

 

Edited by Mattzs : Grammar

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Spoiler

The Khan Mayrk is kinda of a successor to the Father, a Khan Maykr is birthed every 10k yrs by the collective consciousness of Urdak to lead them, but something went wrong, a new Khan was not born, so current Khan Maykr has been leading them for way longer than her natural lifespan.

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 10:59 PM, TheRedTide said:
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The Khan Mayrk is kinda of a successor to the Father, a Khan Maykr is birthed every 10k yrs by the collective consciousness of Urdak to lead them, but something went wrong, a new Khan was not born, so current Khan Maykr has been leading them for way longer than her natural lifespan.

 

Spoiler

That is really interesting. Sounds like the Khan Makyr became corrupted. Is this from the Codex as well?

 

This adds more evidence to the idea that the Maykrs (excluding the Khan?) are a lower class/ sub class of Angel. They cannot be the equivalent to the Archdemons as the art book mentions that the ArchDemons are immortal. If the Archdemons are the highest caste in Hell, then I would say that the Seraphim should be their equivalent. 

 

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21 hours ago, Mattzs said:
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That is really interesting. Sounds like the Khan Makyr became corrupted. Is this from the Codex as well?

 

This adds more evidence to the idea that the Maykrs (excluding the Khan?) are a lower class/ sub class of Angel. They cannot be the equivalent to the Archdemons as the art book mentions that the ArchDemons are immortal. If the Archdemons are the highest caste in Hell, then I would say that the Seraphim should be their equivalent. 

 

Spoiler

from the leaked artbook

 

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2 hours ago, TheRedTide said:
  Reveal hidden contents

from the leaked artbook

 

Gotcha. That makes sense. I missed that then.

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TBH I hope the Doom Story keeps the maykrs too a minimum and keeps the angels mysterious.  Doom is about slaying demons, not techno robot aliens.

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If the officially revealed content and leaked stuff are anything to go by, we're probably only getting robot angels whether or not they're the entire representation of this Heaven.

 

If they end up being literal aliens, it'd be disappointed because what made Hell works in Doom is the fact that no matter how fantasy-like, tech based or even alien a demon looks, it's still a demon: Hell just happens to be a mix of ideas.

And i always thought Heaven in Doom could be like that.

 

It's the same reasons why the classic novels and 2005 movie suffer: they assumed Doom's Hell is too weird on its own, when that's one of the things that makes Hell in Doom what it is.

Sure, the new lore does makes some demons sound too alien and there's how the UAC took involvement in creating new species but still.

 

Doom 3 had aliens but didn't let it interfere with how Hell works and felt like it was side stuff, while the new lore doesn't play safe with the Maykrs and Argenta.

They're not bad concepts and there's good ideas there, but it does seem a bit weird in Doom at times.

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I agree. Alien races and more scifi additions are fine as long as Doom still retains its supernatural core.

 I'm okay with a little bit more makyr involvement in the story if they aren't supposed to be  the highest order of angels.

 They seem somewhat underwhelming if they are the Doom universe's only version of Heaven.

I'd like the seraphim to be portrayed as mysterious, incomprehensible, and otherworldly.

 

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