"It's messed up!"

[Nanami]

Not to say that either are bad. In fact, I think they have some of the best levels I've ever played. But has anyone ever noticed that Doom and Doom II actually have amazing amounts of texture misallignments? Some are hard to notice and some are right-out noticable. I also know of at least two levels that are missing wall textures (MAP16 and somewhere in UD).

Run doom.wad or doom2.wad through DeePsea's level checker and see how many errors there actually are.

[Fredrik]

For one thing, the original DoomEd didn't have automatic texture alignment. For another, the levels were made 10 years ago. It's easy for us today to look back at the innovations id made back then and point out flaws. No one cared back then - it took at least 5 years until proper alignment was standard in PWADs. Besides, I don't think there any *really* bad misalignments in Doom/Doom 2.

[Nanami]

Fredrik said:

Besides, I don't think there any *really* bad misalignments in Doom/Doom 2.

There aren't that I've seen. Heck, it took me a while to notice that there were texture misallignments. Most of them are just small things.

I guess people don't notice it as much because they're the originals. With any new levels, it's a sort of competition to see what amazing wads people can make. So they're alylized heavily. People expect more these days from levels then back then. Back then, that was really something.

[Archaeo]

One day, when I was a little boy(first grade) I barfed oreo-cookies all over my school desk.

[scorpion]

If there are really really bad misalignments in any doom iwad, I never noticed them. If 'bad' texturing doesn't ruin the feeling of a level (theme) or my gameplay, I guess it's fine with me.

And, uhm... that's real nice, Archaeo. I hope you got new cookies that day...

[Archaeo]

I can’t remember if I did. :)

[TheHighestTree]

\: |

I noticed a few, but meh


I have to go rake leaves now, damn i hate raking leaves...makes me wonder why we keep trees in our yard


this thread seems pretty determined not to be sideswiped

[Nanami]

scorpion said:

If 'bad' texturing doesn't ruin the feeling of a level (theme) or my gameplay, I guess it's fine with me.

It's not really -bad- texturing. And I really think that Doom and Doom II levels do a good job at keeping a theme, and still having realistic/demonic areas. At the same time. Current mappers seem to have a bit of a trouble with that sometimes. I know I do. =/ I can usually do semi-realistic areas, but adding skin walls is hard for me to get to work right. It's just that, as a mapper obsessed with PERFECT texture allignment, I noticed it.

[myk]

Right, organic or weird textures are harder to use in DOOM, because walls are straight, being more easily fitting for artificial textures.

[Kid Airbag]

Nanami said:

Doom and Doom II levels do a good job...still having realistic/demonic areas.

WTF, the reason I didn't like Doom and Doom II as much as I could have is that they didn't have any realism. They'd name a level Factory, and it wouldn't look anything like any factories I've seen. Of course, this was understandable, given that ID still hadn't exploited engine tricks and back then too much detail would really slow up your computer.

At the same time. Current mappers seem to have a bit of a trouble with that sometimes. I know I do. =/ I can usually do semi-realistic areas, but adding skin walls is hard for me to get to work right. It's just that, as a mapper obsessed with PERFECT texture allignment, I noticed it.

For skin walls, just split the linedefs a bunch of times and drag the vertices, making the walls jagged and stuff. That's generally what I do.

[myk]

Pablo Dictter style?

The most realistic maps are the ones made by Tom Hall, though some lost part of their realism as others worked on them after he left. Look at E2M2, E2M7 and MAP10. Those are his. Romero's was a looser style but was also relatively realistic (MAP15, E1.)

[stphrz]

Um E2M7 is Sandy Peterson's creation.

[myk]

Sandy Petersen finished it, you mean. E2M7 was started by Tom and was to be the 1st map initially (with the cardgame flat and the chairs in the starting room.) Sandy Petersen's maps have a more simple design, Hall's are rather complex with lots of repeated rooms and realistic structures.

[Fletcher`]

I see nothing wrong with this. Doom and Doom 2 are perfect. By yesterday's standards though.

TheHighestTree: Get a portible leaf mulcher. Does wondors.

[Archaeo]

Doom1 and 2 are two greatest games in terms of the current technology and the competition of its day. Oh shit! Ravage just said that. Oh well. Fuck I sound like an idiot! I’m going to bed.

[Nanami]

ravage said:

I see nothing wrong with this. Doom and Doom 2 are perfect. By yesterday's standards though.

Yes. Yes, that's very true.